Natalee Holloway disappearance. Unraveling the clues to finally solve it, already.

[Franklin]

I have seen this Natalee Holloway story on Unsoved Mysteries and other places. There is so much information out there it's ridiculous. There should be a consensus by now as to what really happened and who was involved.

Here is what I think: Joran went onto Greta Van Susteren show to "confess" to being involved in human trafficking a few months after spilling the real scenario on camera to Peter De Vries. But in doing this Susteren interview, he was really only trying to cancel out his earlier inadvertant confession to Peter DeVries. (That is the confession on the hidden camera of the car in Holland.)

This expanded effort by Joran to re-direct everybodies focus away from the ocean only shows that law enforcement is getting closer to finding something, or at least starting to look in the correct direction.

With a crime such as this, you can always tell when law enforcement is getting close to the truth because of the increased energy expended by the guilty (Joran) to divert attention away from the correct path.

On the Lifetime Channel movie about Holloway/Aruba, much of the emphisis was on the corruption and the coverup by the Aruba law enforcement and government. What does this mean?

Anybody out there have any ideas or insights to offer?
It may never be officially solved, but at least it can be settled to a degree in our own minds.

[peachysquirt21]

The Natalee Holloway story was never featured on UM.

I have always believed that Joran was behind her dissapearence & death.

[Mastermind]

The Natalee Holloway story was never featured on UM.

I have always believed that Joran was behind her dissapearence & death.

Most likely. I'm not as up on this case as others but he and his friends were the last to see her alive I believe. Joran I believe was caught in a few lies as well under interrogation, no?

[Franklin]

The problem with the Natalee Holloway case is there is TOO MUCH evidence. If there were LESS evidence I think there would be a much greater likelyhood of solving the mystery.

Case in point: On the Lifetime Movie channel, the movie emphasized the dense web of official corruption in Aruba that undermined the Holloways efforts to find out anything.

Obstruction of justice by a specific official might give a hint as to who was the accomplice of Joran because it would be a relative of the official in question. But WHEN EVERYONE is obstructing justice it becomes clear that there cannot be a hundred peoples sons involved in the murder.

[Franklin]

So what other motives might these "Good 'ol Boys" have for the obstruction of Justice?

a) Predudice against "The Gringos", to "put the USA in their place".
b) Like some beaurocrats everywhere, a desire to play cat and mouse with an anxious person (the Holloways) in an attemp to "play God", or to feel as if on a pedistal. The more desperate the Holloways become, the more power the official feels.
c) A desire to be part of the inner clique of Aruba Law enforcement (a "good 'ol boy", a "team player") by testing which way the official wind is blowing, and then to jump on the bandwagon by pulling little underhanded tricks against "the Americans" to waste their time, and maybe climb up in job status with their piers.

e) And last but not least, an official might obstruct justice in order to protect ones own kin folk, or the kin folk of someone to whom he owes a favor.

So then, what does the obstruction of justice tell us? A great big Nothin.

That is UNLESS:
Unless you step back and look at the psychological profiles of each of the officials involved in the corruption and then measure their behaviour in this case against their normal behaviour, and against their normal psychological dispositions. IF there is a marked difference from their normal behavior, then BINGO!!!

[Franklin]

If it is not a particular officials normal character to participate in corruption, and yet now he is now acting this way, only then can we suspect someone close to him of being one of the acomplices. (we already Know Joran did it, it's the accomplices in the disposal of the body who are are the remaining mystery.)

All the official were excited to arrest the non-connected security gaurds when they were suspect. They didn't even seem to be too obstructionist at first when they finally arrested Joran and the Kalpoes. I think that things really went south when someone high up realized that HIS OWN KID knew too much, or helped Joran in some way.

His kid may have simply loaned Joran a cell phone as he saw Joran running up from the beach. Or he may have seen Joran talking to the gangster and even been asked to help move the body.

Or, unfortunately for solving the case, all of the kids in town may have been involved in drug trading, and an investigation would have gotten everybody in trouble by accidental chance upon the dominoes falling. So then ALL the cops would turn dirty, in which case we still couldn't make any conclusions based on observations of corruption.

[Franklin]

Anyone out there seen the Lifetime movie channel last week? Does the narrow issue of corruption point anywhere specifically in this case?

[peachysquirt21]

Originally Posted by Franklin

Anyone out there seen the Lifetime movie channel last week? Does the narrow issue of corruption point anywhere specifically in this case?

I dont get this channel but will be come this Friday

Hopefully I will be able to catch it cause I would like to see it.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by Franklin

So what other motives might these "Good 'ol Boys" have for the obstruction of Justice?

a) Predudice against "The Gringos", to "put the USA in their place"...(a "good 'ol boy", a "team player") by testing which way the official wind is blowing, and then to jump on the bandwagon by pulling little underhanded tricks against "the Americans" to waste their time, and maybe climb up in job status with their piers.

I highly doubt Aruba law enforcement has a vested interest in "putting the USA in its place." Don't you think that's rather arrogant and premature to assume?

[Mastermind]

Originally Posted by Franklin
So what other motives might these "Good 'ol Boys" have for the obstruction of Justice?

a) Predudice against "The Gringos", to "put the USA in their place"...(a "good 'ol boy", a "team player") by testing which way the official wind is blowing, and then to jump on the bandwagon by pulling little underhanded tricks against "the Americans" to waste their time, and maybe climb up in job status with their piers.


I highly doubt Aruba law enforcement has a vested interest in "putting the USA in its place." Don't you think that's rather arrogant and premature to assume?

GRINGOS??? Are we talking about 1880s Mexico here or 21st century Aruba? I do believe their background is Dutch not Spanish?

The Aruban police in my opinion have received too much blame in this case. They are a small island police force not the Baltimore City Homicide Unit. It's not that crazy to assume they would be more than a little inexperienced in homicide case.

Natalie Holloway is a missing persons case. By nature they are difficult to solve. Mostly because there is no crime scene, body or discernable motive.

The Laci Peterson case was more unique in terms of missing persons cases. The big reason they solved that case was that the first officers on the scene were quick to see suspicion in Scott Peterson and pointed that out to the Modesto homicide police when they arrived. Plus with Laci's pregnancy there was little possibility that she could have left on her own, which limited the possibilitie to her disappearance. It also helped that they had a crime scene as well and a body later on.

The problem with the Natalee Holloway case is there is TOO MUCH evidence. If there were LESS evidence I think there would be a much greater likelyhood of solving the mystery.

What evidence are you talking about? Explain?

[Franklin]

Quote:
The problem with the Natalee Holloway case is there is TOO MUCH evidence. If there were LESS evidence I think there would be a much greater likelyhood of solving the mystery.

Quote from Mastermind:
"What evidence are you talking about? Explain?"

You are right, Mastermind. Perhaps a better term would have been to say "Too many possible scenarios".

A lot of the kids on Aruba lied for Joran to help to validate his various alibis. Although it is not "evidence", it confuses the issue. It points suspicion too many ways and makes it difficult for the police to know where to invest their surveillance resources. Were these friends co-conspirators, or were they just "team players" for the pack.

His best friend, Freddy, actually snitched out on Joran about Joran not really taking Natalee to the Holliday Inn. It is most likely that Joran knew by then that the Holliday Inn surveilance video would negate his original story anyway, so Freddy was really helping Joran set up the innocent scenario where Joran only left a drunken Natalee on the beach because she refused to get into the Kalpoes car.

One uninvolved kid actually sought out inclusion to throw his name in with the others to give a false alibi for anyone who needed one. I think he had overheard someone on the phone at an internet cafe talking about the situation. And for a short time he actually was one of the alibis. It must have been a highly sought after "membership" to this "club" of teenagers.

[Franklin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin
So what other motives might these "Good 'ol Boys" have for the obstruction of Justice?

a) Predudice against "The Gringos", to "put the USA in their place"...(a "good 'ol boy", a "team player") by testing which way the official wind is blowing, and then to jump on the bandwagon by pulling little underhanded tricks against "the Americans" to waste their time, and maybe climb up in job status with their piers.

Quote from MegTheEgg86:
"I highly doubt Aruba law enforcement has a vested interest in "putting the USA in its place." Don't you think that's rather arrogant and premature to assume?"

Meg, There is a popular boycot against travel to Aruba. And on the web site discussion boards there is a lot of race baiting from both sides. I am embarrased to say that Americans on these boards are, as usual acting arrogant and superior to any foreigners, as if our justice is perfect. I can't blame many Arubans for being sick of the whole case.

When the Dutch government took over the investigation from the Aruba authorities, even they openely concluded that there was a Huge corruption problem. I am just listing some possible motives for the individuals involved to not do there jobs properly. I don't think they ALL scorn Americans, but if there are twenty corrupt people, it is possible that one or two might have the motivation of anti-Americanism. Which would be great to know, because then they could be partially eliminated from suspicion of protecting someone. They are setting up obsticles out of more generic predudices.

[leafygreens]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

I highly doubt Aruba law enforcement has a vested interest in "putting the USA in its place." Don't you think that's rather arrogant and premature to assume?

Aruba gets so much of its livelihood (tourism) from the US, I don't think anyone there wants to put the US "in its place." I think rather, that the Aruban officials were trying to walk a fine line between protecting the reputation of the island's tourism, and protecting its citizens (Joran, et al) from an international media mob. Considering how small the island is, and that Joran's father was quite powerful, it was no doubt difficult for the police to do a proper investigation. I'm sure that for every official trying to do the "right" thing, they were checked by a different official who probably knew Joran's family and wanted to protect them or may have been bribed.

Of all the evidence I have seen, the most compelling has been the Peter deVries "undercover" video of Joran in the SUV with the guy pretending to be his friend. After this tape was released Joran said that he was just "acting" to try and appear bad-a$$ in front of his new "friend." This does not pass the smell test to me. Joran would not make up something with the ramifications it would have to his reputation. Not only that, but taking the body out and dumping it is the only thing that makes sense considering all the other evidence (he was the last seen with her, they were alone on the beach, etc.) But one thing Joran never mentioned in the tapes, and that I believe happened, was that he raped her before she went unconcious. He knew his DNA would be found in her body. As well as a possible date-rape drug. There is no other reason he would want to "get rid of her." Drinking is legal at 18 in Aruba, and so is pot. Joran did something to Natalee (rape or roofies) that he didn't want being found, and therefore disposed of her by taking her body out to sea and dumping it. This is the only reason that explains no corpse ever being found. You couldn't hide a body on a 10 mile long island and not have remnants of it turn up somewhere.

[Franklin]

Quote from LeafyGreens:
"But one thing Joran never mentioned in the tapes, and that I believe happened, was that he raped her before she went unconcious. He knew his DNA would be found in her body. As well as a possible date-rape drug. There is no other reason he would want to "get rid of her." Drinking is legal at 18 in Aruba, and so is pot. Joran did something to Natalee (rape or roofies) that he didn't want being found, and therefore disposed of her by taking her body out to sea and dumping it. This is the only reason that explains no corpse ever being found. You couldn't hide a body on a 10 mile long island and not have remnants of it turn up somewhere."

I think you are right LeafyGreens. But I also think that Joran "Knew Too Much" so to speak. If he went down, (for the rape drugs) there was the risk of others on the island being pulled down with him. Not the maijuana dealers (that was legal there) but the dealers of other vices.

Put yourself in the shoes of a gangster of the higher echelons of crime society. You never lose, and you don't ever intend to lose. You are not a common street thief who gets caught, you are a member of an elite group, a Mafia, who is above the law. They might have just killed Joran to shut him up, but this budding mafia worked things out with their pre-planned strategy perhaps for body disposal. For a Mafia to exist, they must stick together. That is why they call it ORGANIZED crime. Like being a member of the Auto Club, you are backed up by a bigger organization when things become difficult. They sink or swim together, and they know it. THEY HAD TO HELP JORAN!!! No second thoughts and no other choices.

Besides, Jorans dad was a soon to be judge. A wiseguy would know the benifits of "owning" a judge. A "get out of jail free" card. (to have just in case if he ever needed one)
If Jorans accomplice (alias "Daury" on the DeVrie tapes) was that smart, perhaps he was always on the lookout for a judge or official to "own". He might have had to pull a lot of strings after his plans didn't pan out. Instead of "owning" Paulus VdS (Jorans father), this "Daury" had to cash in all his accumulated "get out of jail free" cards TO PROTECT HIMSELF from arrest when things blew up in the media.