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Old 08-31-2020, 01:46 AM   #31
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As bmasters says, the producers dropped the ball with Valerie. Valerie thought the show would revolve around her. The producers, however, were focusing on Jason Bateman.
I won't go too far into Miller-Boyett on here (I've written and discussed about them in greater detail on the Hogan Family forum). I'll just say that the simplest way that I could describe their shows is that they were extremely audience pandering, silly/cutesy, and Pollyannaish. Their specialty for better or worse, was creating wholesome, feel good comedies.
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Old 08-31-2020, 02:45 AM   #32
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I won't go too far into Miller-Boyett on here (I've written and discussed about them in greater detail on the Hogan Family forum). I'll just say that the simplest way that I could describe their shows is that they were extremely audience pandering, silly/cutesy, and Pollyannaish. Their specialty for better or worse, was creating wholesome, feel good comedies.
Wholesome, feel-good comedy? Yes, until they killed off Valerie in the car accident/fire.


(I know, I know. It was a car accident. But shortly thereafter, they had a fire).
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Old 08-31-2020, 04:13 PM   #33
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I think the late Larry Hagman might have done that on the last two or three seasons' worth of O-R CBS Dallas.
Hagman got an executive producer credit during the later years, but it was a vanity credit (similar to the producer credits for Candice Bergen and Craig T Nelson on their series) and a way of paying him more money. He didn’t run the writers room or have budgetary responsibility, like a showrunner would. Leonard Katzman was the showrunner for “Dallas” for those years.
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Old 08-31-2020, 08:34 PM   #34
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Jerry Seinfeld in the last two seasons of “Seinfeld” (after Larry David left).

Desi Arnaz in the last season of “I Love Lucy” (after Jess Oppenheimer left).
Roseanne Barr from what I read, pretty much got full creative control of Roseanne after series co-creator Matt Williams left to create Home Improvement.
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Old 09-01-2020, 01:50 AM   #35
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Wholesome, feel-good comedy? Yes, until they killed off Valerie in the car accident/fire.


(I know, I know. It was a car accident. But shortly thereafter, they had a fire).
Speaking of which, Miller-Boyett could seem really cut-throat. What I mean is that they obviously had little qualms about dropping cast members on a whim once they no longer had any use for them.

Remember the last season of Laverne & Shirley, where Cindy Williams was nowhere to be found. And yet, it was still called Laverne & Shirley, despite the fact that it was now just Laverne. Before that, there was the second season of Mork & Mindy, where they dropped Mindy's dad and grandma from the cast since they were "too old" and not "hip enough".

And come their TGIF shows, they dropped Carol's mom and sister with no explanation after the first season of Step by Step. And of course, come the last season on CBS, Brendan was dropped. But unlike Judy on Family Matters or Chuck Cunningham on Happy Days, they still acted as if Brendan existed, just that we the viewers, no longer saw him.
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Old 09-01-2020, 02:31 AM   #36
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Should of have brought the Rhoda character into the 80's as a single working mom. Move the setting to Chicago and had her working in major dept store corporate office environment full of eccentric characters. Nancy Walker and Julie Kavner could of made occasional guest star appearances.

80 's Rhoda's new tagline: New York, you had your chance!

Even though Miller-Boyett could not produce an intelligent show to save their life, they definitely had an eye for up and coming new talent. I guess you can give them that.
Ironically, Miller-Boyett you could argue, already did their own version of Rhoda with Angie.
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Old 09-01-2020, 03:04 AM   #37
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I've briefly mentioned him once before, but this time I go further in discussing Dan Schneider, who created/executive produced All That, The Amanda Show, Drake & Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly, Victorious, Sam & Cat, Henry Danger, and Game Shakers for Nickelodeon. I don't know where else to begin except to say that with all due respect, Schneider's brand of comedy is in my estimation, an acquired taste.

He has this extremely bizarre sense of humor that could often show a dark and mean-spirited edge. Schneider seems to love putting random non-sequiturs throughout his shows, where his characters do or say something just because and the randomness of it is supposed to be funny. I'm guessing that his shows were so successful with teens, adults, and children because of all of the crazy, loud, childish, and weird characters being showcased.

I must add however, that the dialogue and writing in these shows are occasionally, laced with sexual innuendos and double entendres. Not only that, but he also litters his shows with what could be considered unpleasant stereotypes about minorities (especially black women). He also likes to incorporate his obvious foot fetish in his shows.

Maybe it's really just a coincidence, but Schneider also always seemed to pit the girls on his shows against each other. This even extends to his non-Nickelodeon shows like What I Like About You with Amanda Bynes and Jennie Garth.

Don't take my word for it, but there's a "blind item" online that suggests that Nickelodeon wanted to get rid of Victorious (despite its popularity) as fast as possible before the proverbial "stuff hit the fan". There was allegedly a lot of sex and drugs going on behind the scenes that would've been extremely bad for Nickelodeon's image.

What we do know for sure however, is the behind the scenes mess that was Sam & Cat:
  • The problems seemed to start when, instead of being renewed for a second season, the series had its first season episode order doubled from 20 to 40. This is an unheard-of number for a scripted show; most American series don't exceed 24 episodes a season, with cable shows often having far less. (Even in the 1950s, when it was not uncommon for series to have upwards of 30 episodes per season, this would have been unheard of.) This meant that the cast and crew didn't get a break from their schedule and also didn't get to possibly renegotiate contracts between seasons.
  • This grueling schedule put a strain on everybody, with McCurdy and Grande both reportedly ready to move on. Both stars began showing up late on set, and McCurdy did not appear at the Kids Choice Awards in 2014, saying point-blank on Twitter the reason was the way she was treated by Nickelodeon. There was also the Contractual Purity of being young adults working at the kid-friendly Nickelodeon; Grande's music career has taken off, and McCurdy was struggling with personal problems, including her mother's death in late 2013 and the leak of several racy (though not explicit) photos.
  • Amidst all of this, the show wasn't renewed for a second season and instead was placed on "permanent hiatus", with all crew members let go apart from post-production to finish the episodes already filmed. Nick then officially cancelled the show.

Last edited by TMC; 02-02-2021 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 09-01-2020, 04:46 AM   #38
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Speaking of which, Miller-Boyett could seem really cut-throat. What I mean is that they obviously had little qualms about dropping cast members on a whim once they no longer had any use for them.
That was so common on Miller-Boyett sitcoms that I'm surprised there weren't more lawsuits. Valerie's successful suit is the one that springs to mind, but I know Cindy Williams had one, as well, at one time.

Quote:
Remember the last season of Laverne & Shirley, where Cindy Williams was nowhere to be found. And yet, it was still called Laverne & Shirley, despite the fact that it was now just Laverne. Before that, there was the second season of Mork & Mindy, where they dropped Mindy's dad and grandma from the cast since they were "too old" and not "hip enough".
Laverne without Shirley was pointless and dumb.

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And come their TGIF shows, they dropped Carol's mom and sister with no explanation after the first season of Step by Step. And of course, come the last season on CBS, Brendan was dropped. But unlike Judy on Family Matters or Chuck Cunningham on Happy Days, they still acted as if Brendan existed, just that we the viewers, no longer saw him.
You've named some of the patron saints of Chuck Cunningham syndrome, although Penny and Ivy from Step By Step rarely get mentioned in these lists. As everyone must know by now, I'm not a huge fan of dumping characters Miller-Boyett style, because it almost always created continuity problems and made the show feel weird and eerie when no-one mentioned the elephant in the room: the lack of one of the family members. The Hogan Family is one of the few Miller-Boyett sitcoms to even mention the 'chucked' character post-chucking.
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Old 09-01-2020, 09:16 AM   #39
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Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy were Garry Marshall shows with Miller and Boyett just working for him. Cindy Williams was fired? I just assumed she had enough of the show and quit, hadn't heard about her being fired like Valerie Harper. As for Mork and Mindy, the older cast members being dropped came from meddling by ABC themselves, not Miller/Boyett, who at that time were not as powerful as they would be in the TGIF era. Ironically Tom Poston was still made a regular when Mindy's family was dropped because of being too old.
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Old 09-01-2020, 10:01 PM   #40
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Roseanne Barr from what I read, pretty much got full creative control of Roseanne after series co-creator Matt Williams left to create Home Improvement.
She had a great deal of creative control, but she wasn’t the showrunner. They switched showrunners every season or two: Danny Jacobson (for latter half of season 1, and season 2), Bob Myer (seasons 3 and 4), Bruce Helford (season 5), Rob Ulin (seasons 6 and 7), Eric Gilliland (season 8) and Daniel Palladino (season 9). I really like seasons 3 and 4, when Bob Myer was running the show.
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:09 AM   #41
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He got angry at Charisma Carpenter for getting pregnant and not telling him sooner so he decided to write her character into a stupid storyline that led to her being written off the show, only to return for a final appearance where she died in a coma after acting as a physical apparition for the duration of the episode. He also allegedly had relationships/hook ups with Emma Caulfield and Paige Moss, who played Anya and the female werewolf Veruca respectively on Buffy.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:10 AM   #42
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He got angry at Charisma Carpenter for getting pregnant and not telling him sooner so he decided to write her character into a stupid storyline that led to her being written off the show, only to return for a final appearance where she died in a coma after acting as a physical apparition for the duration of the episode. He also allegedly had relationships/hook ups with Emma Caulfield and Paige Moss, who played Anya and the female werewolf Veruca respectively on Buffy.
Charisma's/Cordelia's departure from Angel was handled incredibly badly, both on-camera and off-camera. I can't begin to describe how icky her Season 4 storyline became.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:13 AM   #43
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Laverne and Shirley and Mork and Mindy were Garry Marshall shows with Miller and Boyett just working for him. Cindy Williams was fired? I just assumed she had enough of the show and quit, hadn't heard about her being fired like Valerie Harper.
Yep, you're right. Cindy quit.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:59 PM   #44
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Since I mentioned Dick Wolf, would you blame him the decline in quality for Miami Vice? Wolf took over from Michael Mann as executive producer for the third season. It was from there, that the show became increasingly dark, dreary, and very depressing. Basically, the show took on real life themes for the episodes and got away from the previous drug dealing storylines of Seasons 1 and 2.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:12 AM   #45
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I've briefly mentioned him once before, but this time I go further in discussing Dan Schneider, who created/executive produced All That, The Amanda Show, Drake & Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly, Victorious, Sam & Cat, Henry Danger, and Game Shakers for Nickelodeon. I don't know where else to begin except to say that with all due respect, Schneider's brand of comedy is in my estimation, an acquired taste.

He has this extremely bizarre sense of humor that could often show a dark and mean-spirited edge. Schneider seems to love putting random non-sequitors throughout his shows, where his characters do or say something just because and the randomness of it is supposed to be funny. I'm guessing that his shows were so successful with teens, adults, and children because of all of the crazy, loud, childish, and weird characters being showcased.

I must add however, that the dialogue and writing in these shows are occasionally, laced with sexual innuendos and double entendres. Not only that, but he also litters his shows with what could be considered unpleasant stereotypes about minorities (especially black women). He also likes to incorporate his obvious foot fetish in his shows.

Maybe it's really just a coincidence, but Schneider also always seemed to pit the girls on his shows against each other. This even extends to his non-Nickelodeon shows like What I Like About You with Amanda Bynes and Jennie Garth.

Don't take my word for it, but there's a "blind item" online that suggests that Nickelodeon wanted to get rid of Victorious (despite its popularity) as fast as possible before the proverbial "stuff hit the fan". There was allegedly a lot of sex and drugs going on behind the scenes that would've been extremely bad for Nickelodeon's image.

What we do know for sure however, is the behind the scenes mess that was Sam & Cat:
  • The problems seemed to start when, instead of being renewed for a second season, the series had its first season episode order doubled from 20 to 40. This is an unheard-of number for a scripted show; most American series don't exceed 24 episodes a season, with cable shows often having far less. (Even in the 1950s, when it was not uncommon for series to have upwards of 30 episodes per season, this would have been unheard of.) This meant that the cast and crew didn't get a break from their schedule and also didn't get to possibly renegotiate contracts between seasons.
  • This grueling schedule put a strain on everybody, with McCurdy and Grande both reportedly ready to move on. Both stars began showing up late on set, and McCurdy did not appear at the Kids Choice Awards in 2014, saying point-blank on Twitter the reason was the way she was treated by Nickelodeon. There was also the Contractual Purity of being young adults working at the kid-friendly Nickelodeon; Grande's music career has taken off, and McCurdy was struggling with personal problems, including her mother's death in late 2013 and the leak of several racy (though not explicit) photos.
  • Amidst all of this, the show wasn't renewed for a second season and instead was placed on "permanent hiatus", with all crew members let go apart from post-production to finish the episodes already filmed. Nick then officially cancelled the show.
While watching a video that was critical of the iCarly episode "iPearStore", I found something that pretty much perfectly summed up all that was wrong with Dan Schneider's Nickelodeon shows:
- Mistaking cruelty and stupidity that borders on brain damage (what's a beverage?) for comedy
- Torturing the most sympathetic character to extreme ends
- Erasing any rational thought and common sense in order to make jokes and give the Megward of the week more torment
- Making the most annoying/sadistic character the winner even when they do nothing to earn it
- Throwing in filler to try and mask the lack of a story (Gibby's plot should not be in)
- Side characters that exist for no other reason than to torture or be tortured

Last edited by TMC; 01-29-2021 at 04:42 AM.
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