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Old 07-22-2002, 07:04 PM   #46
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Oh please.
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Old 07-22-2002, 08:03 PM   #47
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: love it

Quote:
Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh


Well I am a musician too, but I suppose I'm not a "real" musician in your definition. In your first post, you did indeed overgeneralize. Only just now have you admitted that some rap has some redeeming qualities. I am not a mindreader, so I had no way of knowing you felt this way, so your statements were overgeneralized even if you did not mean them to be.

To be perfectly honest, no I do not know the difference between "art music" and "plain music". I could wager a guess, but why don't you educate me.

However, no one was trying to argue that rap was art music in the first place. I simply didn't think it was fair of you (or anyone else for that matter) to dismiss the entire genre as pointless, when obviously it has meaning and substance to a large portion of the population.

Additionally what counts as art, whether music or not, is highly debateable and most times even art lovers cannot agree on what does and does not constitute art. For example, when I visited the Pompidou Center in Paris earlier this year (a modern art museum) there were pictures in there of someone defecating on someone else's bald head. Art? Personally, I say no, but obviously the curators of the museum thought it was.

I am perfectly aware of the difference between opinion and fact, and as such I am aware that my assessment of your argument was my opinion. Just because I don't follow every sentence with "IMO" doesn't mean I don't know. I also never said that you said listening to rap makes you stupid, I said you insinuated it, which "IMO" you did. At any rate, I would still contest your reasoning that listening to rap makes you write badly.

I was not offended by your post, and I am still not offended. I do definetely disagree with you, on some points, but I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

About my educating you, I'm not a music teacher, so I would politely recommend to you that you do a search on "art music." However, I would like to read your guess on what it is.


But I will post what I consider "art music." Maybe some won't agree with me, but that's ok. Most of us have our own philosophies.


I consider "art music" one that is composed by someone who has studied music theory, composition, orchestration, music literature, harmony, rhythm, and other components of music, extensively. A composer who has studied all these, naturally, writes or composes music with feeling, depth, appeal, and emotion. IRT plain music, I consider plain music as one that has a chord progression of I, V, maybe even a IV, and back to I (i.e. some country music, notice that I wrote "some", not all). In other words, commercial music that is broadcasted only to make a quick buck. Anyway, that's just my philosophie.
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Old 07-22-2002, 10:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: Re: love it

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Originally posted by tonicapollo



i love rap that's all i listen to like country is all about poeple who lost there dog who lost there wife lost there house or want any of the three and that's all country music is about. country music is like fantasy land think the worlds full of joy and happiness but it's not it's full of gang wars drugs alcohool and bad things like that and that's what rap poeple sing about the real world. If the world goes to happy days wonderfull times then listen to country it's the thing but like i said

country music=fantasy land
rap music=real world
rock music real world
First you said country was all about tragedy, then you said its fantasy land where everyone thinks the world is full of joy.

And incidentally, just because much of the world is full of gangs, alcohol, and war that doesn't mean every aspect of our lives should be filled up with hate. I think it's all the more reason to watch a funny movie/tv show or to listen to a song that makes you smile a little.

And Tootiefan4life, I agree with everything you said except i'm 18 When I tell people what kind of music/shows i like they always tell me i'm too young to have even heard about them.
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Old 07-22-2002, 10:20 PM   #49
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oops double post, but it won't let me delete it. do you have to be a mod or something?

Last edited by Tammy; 07-22-2002 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 07-22-2002, 10:31 PM   #50
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Oh god people: Listen to what you like. Disregard what you dislike.
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Old 07-22-2002, 10:49 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by timmy087
Oh god people: Listen to what you like. Disregard what you dislike.
Word.
There's no reason to get in a tiff about music. I learned a while back that music is for the masses, but to each genre his own.
You're gonna offend SOMEBODY down the road when you declare your distaste for country or rap, etc...I'd say not to dwell on it...
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Old 07-23-2002, 02:24 AM   #52
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I like Nelly,Eminem,Tupac,Ja Rule,charlie baltimore,and the saint Lunatics
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Old 07-23-2002, 12:43 PM   #53
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: love it

Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie Max
However, I would like to read your guess on what it is.

I consider "art music" one that is composed by someone who has studied music theory, composition, orchestration, music literature, harmony, rhythm, and other components of music, extensively. A composer who has studied all these, naturally, writes or composes music with feeling, depth, appeal, and emotion. IRT plain music, I consider plain music as one that has a chord progression of I, V, maybe even a IV, and back to I (i.e. some country music, notice that I wrote "some", not all). In other words, commercial music that is broadcasted only to make a quick buck. Anyway, that's just my philosophie.
My guess on what art music is was basically exactly what you desribed above. So I guess we agree on some things.

Just out of curiosity, do you consider any music that gets alot of radio play to be art music, or do you feel that distinction only goes to underground music, orchestral music, etc. ? Personally, I think it's a kind of pessimisstic view of the music world if one assumes that everyone who has commercial success only makes music for the money. I like to think that some bands make music because that's what they enjoy. But I do know of many bands who shy away from commercial success because they think that will ruin their credibility.
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Old 07-23-2002, 01:30 PM   #54
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It's getting hot in here!

So take off all your clothes.

I lik ethat song. I don't really like rap but some songs are ok.
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Old 07-23-2002, 01:35 PM   #55
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Thumbs down Thugs annoy me!

And that's all I can find in rap music!

Just look at the pic on page 1 of this thread! EVERY pose is either intimidating, or MEANT to intimidate!

And TALENT...please! They have to use samples of OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC on their little turntable scratchin' crap!

Can ANY of these rap 'artists' ('artists'...yeah, right!) actually hold a tune? If they could...do ya think they'd have to resort to just 'belting out words' to a lame drum-beat? Do ya think many of these 'artists' can read music? Or know what a treble clef or f-sharp is?

All it does is just allow those with absolutely NO TALENT to feel that they're contributing somehow to society...a society that (IMO) is DOOMED!

Have I offended anyone? Good! 'Cause I've been offended by Rap since the beginning!!

NOTHING can change my mind about a 'music' genre that feeds on violence and promotes a similar lifestyle!

C'mon...wail on me! It's what rappers do best!

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Old 07-23-2002, 02:01 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by pontoon
They have to use samples of OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC on their little turntable scratchin' crap!

Can ANY of these rap 'artists' ('artists'...yeah, right!) actually hold a tune? If they could...do ya think they'd have to resort to just 'belting out words' to a lame drum-beat? Do ya think many of these 'artists' can read music? Or know what a treble clef or f-sharp is?
I can say "sampling" is one practice that highly annoys me, no matter who does it, but more often than not it happens in the rap world. The thing that bothers me most about it is some people seem to rely very heavily on sampling others music, and also, many people sample without giving proper credit to the original songwriters. Ever hear Vanilla Ice's lame-@$$ excuse for not giving Queen credit when he sampled from Under Pressure? He claimed that there was like one drumbeat different, and therefore he didn't need to give them credit! PLEASE! It's the exact same beat! I don't know if Queen won that lawsuit, but I hope they did!

But actually, Nelly can sing. That's why he's fairly popular, because many people consider him a singer who raps. And I would wager that at least a handful of rap artists can read music. Alot of Nelly's song have more than mere drumbeats in the background. Joe Perry from Aerosmith played on one of his songs, though addmittedly I do not know who composed guitar part. But if I recall correctly, when they first made it huge, no one in Green Day could read music either. They each only knew 3 chords. I would guess there are alot of musical acts out there other than rappers that cannot read music, though I'd guess rap and pop and maybe punk is probably where most of those people are.
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Old 07-23-2002, 03:03 PM   #57
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Well, rappers arent very talented because I can't play an instrument, I'm not a "musician" unless u count the 2 songs I can play on the keyboard, and I can rap all of that Eminem Annoyingness. All it requires is someone with a good memory and the ability to rhyme. ALL rap videos are IMO degrading because even FEMALE rappers have other women with their asses up in the camera.

Also everyone sais that Heavy metal is bad too well you've got to consider, we've got Heavy metal about Killing people, rap about being sexist, and Pop music about having sex and videos with half naked sweaty men. Even though this may sound "old" music is obviously not the way it should be. If a singer is good enough to makwe a video of themselfs playing guitar with no special add on naked people, and still be popular, then they are talented... I mean all the singers from the 70's were fat and ugly... Well MOST of them, and they did just fine.

And also, Rappers... Well I don't want to sound racist, but they're like... Obsessed with being black. They say n*igger in their songs so many times it makes me sick because (ya i know i sound lame) that word annoys me. But really If I were black Id prolly find it insulting. Alot of rappers claim that people are racist and afraid of blacks and then go get in gang fights. Im probably the least racist person in my state but rappers are contradicting themself... that was kinda confoosing. it wasnt meant as racism if you might take it that way... i mean it is the truth.

Snoop Dogg is a good example. His posse or whatever goes and kills people and then people say stuff like "oh it'll be worse for them because their black" well, if they didn't do stuff like that in the public eye, maybe there would be less racism. here's some lyrics that will show you how much talent he has..

*from the Kid Rock "Cocky" Album.

"There aint nothin like black ***** on my dick, word to yo mama and your sister bitch I play hoes like a mother ****ing football game I pull my dick out and Ull say it good yall came. Now did yalls thing, worked a n*igger front to back, in the bill clinton presidential cadillac. (blah blah blah) I ****ed so many hoes I cant remember their names, but it aint about that bitch I really doubt that so turn the lights off anf put my dick where yo mouth at."

Oh ya. TALENT. Then Kid Rock went on to rap about how him and bill clinton figered a stewardis (sp?) on the airplane... The sad thing is I actually had the misfortune of ending up memorizing that.

Ok now im done talking too much.
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Old 07-23-2002, 07:15 PM   #58
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: love it

Quote:
Originally posted by Bootsy Whoosh


My guess on what art music is was basically exactly what you desribed above. So I guess we agree on some things.

Just out of curiosity, do you consider any music that gets alot of radio play to be art music, or do you feel that distinction only goes to underground music, orchestral music, etc. ? Personally, I think it's a kind of pessimisstic view of the music world if one assumes that everyone who has commercial success only makes music for the money. I like to think that some bands make music because that's what they enjoy. But I do know of many bands who shy away from commercial success because they think that will ruin their credibility.
Music that gets alot of radio play, IMO, is music that is very popular with the public. When the public calls its radio stations and requests that a certain song be played, the DJs then get an idea how popular a song or artist is among the public. Therefore, that music and/or artist get more air play. Art music could be considered an
eclectic taste in music.

IRT being in the business only for the money, most artists and bands do it out of love for their art. But I think there is a small percentage of them who do it only for the money, as is with any other type of business.

Last edited by Charlie Max; 07-23-2002 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 07-23-2002, 07:33 PM   #59
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Stations dont play songs by viewer request. It depends on the label the artist is on/sponser's. Thats usualy why you hear the same crap over and over again.
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Old 07-23-2002, 08:07 PM   #60
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Red face

I hated Rap when it first came out. I hated the way it degrades woman and the way they curse and talk. I still hate the way woman are portrayed on the videos. They are so stupid shaking their Booty's with their TIGHT panties...... (They're suppose to be pants (?))....... It's disgusting !!!

Man I wish for the old days of MTV (When it first came out) BUT........... I've heard Rap that is different too. Rap like when Usher sings. He's not really a Rapper per se but, he does Rap in some of his songs. I like to hear a good singer.
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