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Old 01-28-2010, 10:49 AM   #151
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Then it is fairly easy to blow all my thinking away.
It almost seems to me you're laughing at my writing, mastermind, which takes the interest in the case and responding to this thread away for me.
I think I leave this case at that.
I'm sorry if you feel that way. and I apologize if there was offense taken.
I'm glad you mentioned there was a language barrier, I will keep that in mind in the future.

Actually I was very interested in your theory and was in a way thinking along with your theory and seeing it from both perspectives.

I actually applaud you for coming up with a theory I had never thought of.Your theory has led to this theory which I now bring up to this board.

What if Cindy James had a secret lover that she was fooling around with. This person was someone who was extremely wealthy or was involved with organized crime. For whatever reason the relationship turned sour. This mystery man took this break up to heart and decided he was going to make Cindy James life a living hell from now on. Because he already has bodyguards or soldiers working for him, he doesn;t have to outsource any hit people. Heck he could have his own bodyguards perform all the acts. They would agree to it, considering there already being paid by their client to protect him and do other illegal activities. Since Cindy James doesn;t know any of his illegal activities, he technically doesn;t have to worry about her ratting out his activities. If he's a wealthy socialite, he has no illegal activities he has to worry about exposing (except his attacks on Cindy). This guy may have never planned to kill Cindy at all, just torture her until she committs suicide or dies of shock or something. Something may have occured which prompted Cindy dying now and in an undetectable way (most likely that they feared the police where getting too close).


Well what does everyone think? Credit goes to Shalaa.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:51 AM   #152
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The question about you being paralized was asked out of compassion. Ofcourse it was not my purpose that you reveal anything that can expose your identity. I understand and respect you want your privacy and keep your identity a secret. I just felt for your situation.
I know it was out of compassion and I thank you.

It's just that I wanted to avoid answering the inevitable future questions that may be asked about the incident.

No offense taken.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:12 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
I'm sorry if you feel that way. and I apologize if there was offense taken.
I'm glad you mentioned there was a language barrier, I will keep that in mind in the future.
It's oké. I understand your line of approach and reactions now.
I'll try to post in English in the best way I possibly can. But when I am writing my arguments I often notice I can't as well explain in English as I'd come up with in my own language: Dutch. It almost always sounded better in my own language when I read it back in English. My vocabulary is too small and I miss the knowledge to translate the nuances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Actually I was very interested in your theory and was in a way thinking along with your theory and seeing it from both perspectives.
I understand now better. I actually (first) thought your opinion was that she did this all by herself. To me that is the least likely option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
What if Cindy James had a secret lover that she was fooling around with.
My line of thinking goes also more in this direction.
It would or could explain why she was not killed much earlier in this tragic story. Maybe he (person behind this) was hoping, in a sick way, that she'd 'come around' and give him another chance. Maybe he promised he would stop with this horrible treatment if she went back to him.
Ór he was an admirer, tried to win her affection, she rejected him and voilá the stalking and the rest started. With maybe the same idea he would treat her well if she gave him a chance.

More later. It's dinertime here.
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:47 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Actually I was very interested in your theory and was in a way thinking along with your theory and seeing it from both perspectives.


I understand now better. I actually (first) thought your opinion was that she did this all by herself. To me that is the least likely option.
I actually still believe that the most likely scenario is that she killed herself and the assailant was imaginary.

But I'm always open to another theory if it makes sense.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:32 AM   #155
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I guess it's no use then to go through with theories. You think she's done it herself. I think otherwise. I think we will never find out which one it is anyway.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:21 AM   #156
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I'm the new guy and have been following the Cindy case for many years. I'm torn...If I was being harrassed like that and they couldn't figure it out I would have moved to a different city, province, state or country...so I don't get that. BUT the big thing that jumps out at me, is this was an inside job by the PI. Everything I've seen about him makes me think he was involved. And it's funny how his buiness really took off after this case. He was always in the news...and his cop friend ended up in jail after attacking a woman saying she reminded him of Cindy James. The cops and Cindy were both played by this Private investigator. It's the only thing that makes sense. Then he killed her when he didn't need her anymore because his business was starting to thrive.
Ozzie Kaban is a upstanding man, that wouldn't stoop to such levels to let it his business "thrive", in the way you speak of.

If you held more information on him, or perhaps even educated yourself a little better than you have, you would know his business was thriving well before Cindy's death, (Case in point his popularity with many celebrities, and his ability to protect them while visiting Vancouver).

I may be biased, as he is my grandfather ...
But I also know more about the case than you probably do, making my insight on this, probably a little better than yours.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:50 AM   #157
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I-thinks theory is a bit of a stretch IMO.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:49 AM   #158
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Been really interested in this case after reading one of the books. I'm looking forward to reading Cindy's sister's book next. As I said in the other thread, I really feel that Cindy was doing this to herself (I know a lot of feel this way).
Since we don't know Cindy very well, it's hard to know exactly what was going on, but I think everyone involved in this case has done their best at trying to figure out what the deal was with her and the harassment. Also, and I mean no disrespect in any way, from PurpleRose's posts, I got the sense that Cindy's family didn't know her incredibly well (at least as an adult) either. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Cindy's sister said she had only seen Cindy once in the final year of her life, that Cindy was not very forthcoming to any family members about the problems (and that they didn't usually ask)

In other words, a lot more could have been going on in Cindy's life (or mind) that her family wasn't aware of.

1) The fact that this started 4 months after the separation has been cited as a sign that possible her ex was the perpetrator. It seems just as (if not more) likely that the separation and proceeding loneliness was a catalyst that started the self-harassment. Cindy's sister said on the thread that Cindy wanted out of the relationship, but she also said that Cindy went on several more dates with her ex AFTER the harassment. She even moved back in with him for "protection." Was this a desperate attempt to get back with him? Or to get sympathy from him? Keep in mind that her ex was a psychiatrist, from what I read.

2) On the UM segment, her father said that the investigators "never investigated this as a homicide." But the Vancouver PD spent over a million dollars, had 14 officers assigned to this case, and had her house on periodic surveillance. They did not ignore her claims. Cindy would give vague details of the attacks, say it was one person, sometimes more than one person, and gave them very little to go on.

3) I understand traumatic amnesia, but in every case in which Cindy was supposedly attacked, she had selective memory. She'd say stuff like "I remember sneakers," or "I saw the back of his head only." Usually when someone is traumatized, they only remember waking up in the hospital, not the beginning of the attack, and the end (with the middle part that would involve seeing the actual perpetrator(s) forgotten).

4) The major incidents:
a) When Agnes found Cindy by the side of her house with a nylon stocking around her neck, she just remembered "sneakers." There was no other evidence.
b) When the PI heard "disturbing noises" on the 2-way radio, he came over and her house was secure, with no signs of an intruder. She only remembered seeing someone at the back gate, and then remembered seeing someone put a needle in her. Some have stated that this happened without her knowing anyone was coming over, but surely she knew that the PI would come over if he heard strange noises... did she make those noises herself?
c) The basement fire is almost obviously an inside arson. This happened, by chance, when her friends were spending the night and after they went to bed, and Cindy is the one who goes in and wakes them up. Also, if it is true that her friend saw a man in front of the house and that he ran, it might not be as suspicious as one would initially think. What if the man ran to go call the fire dept, as the friend had asked him. And even if the man was there and didn't go call the dept., it doesn't mean he had anything to do with the fire.
d) Of course her death: I do think that if Cindy was going to kill herself, she would have absolutely done everything possible to make it NOT look like a suicide... if she just shot herself, slit her writs, etc, she would have revealed to everyone that she had been fabricating the harassment, and thus died not as a victim, but as a messed up woman (in her own mind I mean). There was a needle mark, but that doesn't necessarily mean she injected the morphine. She could have made the mark herself so it looked like a needle mark (this was a nurse, and she certainly didn't seem stupid). If that was the case, she could have ingested a ton of morphine, which only takes psychotropic effect after about 20-30 mins. Finally, the area where her body was found was wooded on the periphery, and had a lot of underbrush. She could have thrown the needle into the woods. I think the "no needle" around her proves nothing really.

Finally, of the 6-7 year campaign of harassment, including 100-plus reports of incidence, there are a handful of sketchy reports of others "witnessing" the experiences. These are suspect to me (but not in any way intended to deceive or be intentional by those that witnessed them). For example, I'm sure everyone in her building/neighborhood knew of the situation, so things like "noises in Cindy's apartment" would arouse suspicion. Those same noises heard from someone else's apt. would probably not cause a person to bat an eye.

Her friends, who appeared on the UM segment (an apparently were the only people who supposed witnesses to anything that happened in 7 years) said they were in the room when she got threatening calls.. and that Cindy had not left the room when a dead cat was on her doorstep. You know, Cindy appeared quite crafty at doing this to herself, and this had been going on for years when they said they saw this stuff, and I feel that a combination of a) wanting to believe Cindy and clear her name, b) the blurring of reality that comes with hindsight and recollection, and c) Cindy's own ability to deceive, and to do it very well, might explain the "witness" accounts.

Finally, I have a hard time buying that some of the events were real and some were staged. Someone wrote on this thread that perhaps she did some of these things to get the police more involved since they were not listening to her or believing her. Well, im not sure if fabricating an incident would make the cops believe her more; more importantly, why would she choose to do something as drastic and damaging as setting her own house on fire to "make a point." It just doesn't make any sense.

This case is actually not that insane, from a psychiatric standpoint. There are mental illnesses that center around harming oneself or others in order to elicit sympathy, attention, or to add excitement to an otherwise mundane, lonely existence. This happens more than we think; this is just unique because it was able to go on for so long, and of course it ended in such a tragic and grandiose manner.

Sorry for rambling, and I hope my post doesn't come off as though I think I'm right and my opinion is perfect. Obviously I'm only going by the things I've read and seen, and I have really enjoyed reading all the opinions and conversation on this board!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:18 PM   #159
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The first time I watched the edited version of this segment I was pretty (though not completely) convinced she did herself in. But after watching the uncut version, I wasn't so sure, and I was even more confused after reading Neal Hall's book, but basically I thought there was a strong chance there was foul play involved. Her husband who is mentioned in the book came across as being pretty weird and I just had a gut feeling he could've been involved.

Another puzzling fact is that her shrink never saw any signs of multiple personalities, wouldn't that strengthen Cindy's version (or are shrinks just easily fooled)?

I think either way's possible although I tend to lean more toward the foul play theory.

I just listened to that message on her answering machine again and if she did do all these things to herself, do you think it could be Cindy herself on that tape? It sounds like a female voice
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:54 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by ididn'tdoit
The first time I watched the edited version of this segment I was pretty (though not completely) convinced she did herself in. But after watching the uncut version, I wasn't so sure, and I was even more confused after reading Neal Hall's book, but basically I thought there was a strong chance there was foul play involved. Her husband who is mentioned in the book came across as being pretty weird and I just had a gut feeling he could've been involved.

Another puzzling fact is that her shrink never saw any signs of multiple personalities, wouldn't that strengthen Cindy's version (or are shrinks just easily fooled)?

I think either way's possible although I tend to lean more toward the foul play theory.

I just listened to that message on her answering machine again and if she did do all these things to herself, do you think it could be Cindy herself on that tape? It sounds like a female voice
Hey. Yeah, I listened to that too, and it was creepy wasn't it!!! I do think that it sounds like a female voice, and I have a gut feeling it was Cindy...I know the PD thinks it was Cindy.

I don't think Cindy had multiple personalities either. I think she knew exactly what she was doing as she was doing it, and I think she wanted to do it based on the sympathy/attention, etc that the incidence were causing. Really sad..
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:43 PM   #161
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Cindy by her own words, knew who her alleged tormentor was and the motive behind the his actions.

That always seemed suspicious to me.

If here ex-husband did this, I have to imagine that his identity would get revealed to other people at some point. Especially early on. That's why I can't buy that he was responsible.

If there was a killer...this person would seem to be
1. a psychopath with a jealous crush on Cindy.
2. A rich secret lover that already had the resources to torture Cindy long term.

Neither scenarios sounds plausible.
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Old 04-04-2010, 06:10 PM   #162
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Cindy's sister hasn't provided any update on the forthcoming book in some time. Wonder if it's still in the works?
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:22 PM   #163
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Thanks for the welcome.

I want to mention another strange aspect of this case. Why didn't Cindy move to an apartment with a room-mate, or go back to her parents? She could have even bought an attack dog. By being alone in a house, she left herself vulnerable to a criminal. That's what makes the case even more bizarre.
I have only gotten to page 6 so far, but I wanted to say that as someone who's been stalked in the past, I eventually lived alone because it was safer for people around me. I didn't want any other innocent people dragged into it or harmed just for knowing me. This is after years of losing jobs because of the stalking and having to move cities, states and eventually across the country. When it first started, I was living with someone else, and that person also lost several jobs, even after I moved out, just because that person had been associated with me and my stalkers knew it. They figured, if they got to this person, eventually the person would cave to their pressure and tell them where I was.

Also, I did have a very protective dog at one point, but my stalkers killed him in a very horrible way. After that, I couldn't live with myself if something happened to another animal because of me. That was how I was thinking at the time, it's very isolating when you're stalked, and it's very easy to fall into the self-blame thinking. When people don't want to believe you, it can make you question your sanity. I was lucky that other witnesses to the stalking knew it was real, and that they told me so. That helped me stay just grounded enough to eventually get away and lose them.

It sounds like even though Cindy had this support from some people, it wasn't enough over time. I feel awful for her, and I have no problem believing this happened to her, and probably by more than one person.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:19 PM   #164
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K, I read the rest.

I think to go into Witness Protection (not sure in Canada), you have to be "asked" to join. Like you witness a crime and then to save your life, you go into hiding. You have to change everything about your life, not just your last name and address. If the police didn't believe her, she wouldn't have had that option. But besides that, she lived in houses as a kind of defiance, no? Why, then, go into Witness Protection? You couldn't exactly give the impression that the stalker is not going to scare you if you go into Witness Protection.

I agree with Shahla. I think someone was doing this because he found it fun. (Not necessarily a he, but if Cindy said it was a man...) There are many, many sick people out there, sociopaths and Narcissists, for example, and they would find something like this fun and amusing. They also believe they are smarter than everyone else. People don't like to cross them, because they don't want to be targeted themselves. Cindy could have unintentionally done something the stalker considered a slight, and the stalker could have felt justified in exacting revenge or "punishment." I know it doesn't make sense to people with morals, but these folks don't really have common morals, they live by their own code. From Cindy's sister, we know Cindy had at least one sociopath in her life: Dr. T (the psychiatrist convicted of raping one of his patients and of keeping another one as a sex slave; can't remember how to spell his last name).

Suppose the stalker were the doctor, or that coworker of her ex. That alone would cause me to withhold certain information from the police, because he would be a more credible person than I would be (just for the fact of who he is). I understand that in a way, because really, how crazy is it that a woman is the target of some bizarre campaign, but there is no solid evidence to support her claims? Particularly after she was hospitalized those two times. Being hospitalized automatically causes people to wonder how sane you really are. Look at that man in the L'Enfant case, and he had many, many witnesses AND corroborating evidence of being kidnapped and tortured, yet people think he's doing it to himself.

As for evidence to the phone calls, even the police intercepted at least a few (can't remember which page that was on, but her sister pointed it out), and at least a few of the calls were traced to a district of Vancouver and could not have been made by Cindy in any way. If SHE (a nurse) could afford to pay someone to make those calls, why couldn't a psychiatrist, or anyone else, for that matter? Out of the possibilities, if Cindy were behind it, her co-conspirators have the least to fear for coming forward now, it was not a crime back then to do what they did, and since she's dead (sorry to be so blunt), they don't even have to fear retribution. On the other hand, if her stalker were real, and he were a sociopath, anyone who helped him would have a LOT to fear with coming forward, at least until he died, if not long after. It would depend upon the strength of "hold" he had/has.

I'm curious as to how the police could miss evidence that Cindy's sister later found. It makes me wonder how thoroughly they investigated her disappearance.

Now, one thing that has me wondering. She dated that police officer, what if he were her stalker or he worked for her stalker? I was talking to my husband last night, and we concluded that he could've easily gotten a key to her residence from the landlord. He's a public official, all he has to do is ask. And while a warrant may be required, not all landlords are that scrupulous as to request one. Not to mention locksmiths. The police had to have known of her address changes, of her name change. If he had a key, he could easily gain access (of course), and light a fire in her basement. He could intrude in her home when she's at work, he could get in without any sign of a break-in.

As for multiple-personalities, I don't believe she had it for one second. The 80's/90's was like the "hay day" for diagnosing that condition. Many, many people had "memories" implanted by over-zealous psychologists and therapists during unsupervised/unmonitored hypnosis sessions. The actual rate of this condition is about equal to the rate of schizophrenia, 1% of the population. If Cindy were going to ever be diagnosed with multiple personalities, it would have been then. She had no childhood abuse, no missing time, no chronic untreatable headaches, no strangers coming up to her calling her by a different name, and nothing newly purchased randomly showed up in her apartment (that we know of). If I remember correctly, Vancouver and Seattle were pretty considerable centers for this. There's just no evidence of it.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:29 AM   #165
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Another one I was torn on, although I tend to believe she was staging the whole thing. Didnt the police state that the fire at her friend's house was started from the inside? And that Cindy claimed she was outside "walking her dog" when the fire started or something along those lines?

Would someone who believes she is being stalked and fears for her life...go outside at night and alone to walk their dog? I think not.
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