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View Poll Results: Was Dale Kerstetter abducted or a co-conspirator?
Abducted 158 77.83%
In on it 45 22.17%
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-28-2007, 08:47 PM   #31
Todd Mueller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel
It HAD to be an inside job. Regardless of your contention that anyone living in the city at the time knew there was platinum at the Corning plant, the set up of the job had to come from someone intimately familiar with the ins and outs of the place. Someone who knew there was only one security guard at night, that said security guard was a guy who wouldn't put up a struggle, someone who knew the exact location of the platinum, and the best time and place to catch the security guard unaware. Most importantly, it had to be someone who had some way of getting rid of a load of platinum at a price that would make it worth it.
You know, Corky, you bring up some great points. Definitely stuff I haven't thought of before.

For the robbery, you bring up three great points:

1.) The robbers had to know there was platinum availabile to rob.

2.) The robbers had to know they could get in, get the platinum, and then get out with it.

3.) The robbers had to have an idea of who/where they were going to sell it to or use it.

Those three things combined do scream "inside job." However, that still doesn't mean Dale was in on it or aware of it. But you hit the nail on the head. This was no random crime or spur-of-the-moment act.

Number 3 intrigues me the most and I'm glad you pointed it out. To steal and leave with it is one thing. To get rid of it for $$$ is something else.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel
It HAD to be an inside job.
Moreover, the fact that they probably kidnapped and killed Dale means it's quite possible that he recognized the robbers. He didn't put up a struggle, he seemed quite calm. Why would the robbers kill him unless he could identify them?

moneypenny10, thanks for stopping by. It's always rewarding for us to be able to communicate with those involved in these cases. Please accept my deepest sympathies. I hope you will have answers one day.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:58 PM   #33
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wISEGUY182 is forwarding a DVD copy of the segment to me so I will immediately watch it and report back to you about the security camera footage - was it the actual or a portrayal. Thank you to all of you who so graciously offered to do the same.

The producers of UM did not give us their questions in advance, presumably to avoid premeditated answers. They were very kind and sensitive throughout the whole process. The shooting of the segment took about three days and they were extremely organized in what and when they were going to film. They were definitely professionals in their demeanor and tasks at hand. We did not get paid (we didn't expect to) but they did take us to dinner on the eve of filming to discuss their agenda. You can imagine the cooperation they received in a town with a population of about 12,000. Everyone knew they were there and it was probably the biggest thing to happen to the town in a very long time.

They contacted the PA State Police about the story and the ball just got moving from there. It was purely voluntary on our part; some of my siblings did not want to participate for thier own reasons which was okay with all of us.

I must say I am finding comfort in reading all of the posts on the various threads. I am very happy to have found this site and that so many people, like us, the family, still wonder about it after all of these years. I honestly didn't really think anyone really remembered it anymore, much less actually cared about a family they never met and what they went through, and still do, at every holiday, family ocasion, etc.

You are right about the platinum, needing a market for it and the like, The plant reported it was about $500,000 worth of platinum that was stolen. I always wondered if it was much less than that and they claimed that for insurance purposes or if it was really much more than that but they didn't want to look stupid at the fact that someone just literally walked in and stole it.

There are so many unanswered questions but to the extent that I can answer yours, please feel free to ask me. It is liberating, for lack of a better word, to talk about it to people that genuinely wonder about it like me.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:17 PM   #34
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Moneypenny: The UM fan in me is just tickled you are here because we get such rare insight into such a baffling case. Many of us here definitely remember this case as it is so odd. Really could go either way.

However, the real person in me just aches for your poor family. Having a missing family member would be hard enough, but not knowing why and thinking it could be criminal... ugh.

So has any trace of the platinum ever turned up?

Was there any major dissention in your family about Dale's guilt or innocence? Do most of you feel that same way?

Thanks again...
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypenny10
wISEGUY182 is forwarding a DVD copy of the segment to me so I will immediately watch it and report back to you about the security camera footage - was it the actual or a portrayal. Thank you to all of you who so graciously offered to do the same.
I sent it priority today, so you should get it Saturday, please let me know when you get it.

They said the camera footage was a re-enactment. The re-enactments showed a continuous motion, however I wonder if the actual footage was continuous motion, or one of those stop-action deals where they show one frame for a few seconds, then cut to another frame, and so on. this is displayed on the little tv when the actor that plays the person who is coming in for the morning shift.
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Old 12-02-2007, 11:00 AM   #36
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I think the family all pretty much agrees he didn't do it and was an unwilling victim. Will watch the DVD immediately and report back to you for sure about the tape. The actual security tape was one continous loop if I recall correctly. Not high quality but good enough you could see the expression on his face.

My mother has read the posts as well and reminded me of two very important pieces to this puzzle.

The procedure for the security guards required them to check in with the main plant every hour on the hour. At midnight, Dale missed his first check in and each one after that, of course. The main plant personnel did not notify the local authorities that something was amiss until about 5 a.m., which means they had evidence for 5 hours! that there was a potential situation at the plant. Furthermore, the local police station was located at that time within about a mile or so of the plant. Had police been called after he missed his midnight check-in, they could have been at the plant in minutes. When I questioned the plant personnel about this, they responded that they had someone new on the job at the main plant and this person wasn't sure of the procedures so didn't realize there was a problem, something to that effect.

Had we had more evidence that he was an unwilling victim, I suppose we could have legally gone after the plant as this information, I believe, is paramount to his disappearance. For some reason, I don't recall the police questioning this information to much extent and as you know, it certainly wasn't presented to UM. I think at the time I actually even wondered if the plant had put him up to this in exchange for something, I don't know what. The plant was undergoing a change in ownership at the time this happened, I believe that was the reason for the cutbacks.

The other thing Mom pointed out was that Dad had less than a year to go before he could retire and collect his pension. She believes it actually closer to six months. He started at the plant in 1959 and rarely missed a day of work in all those years.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this new information, does it change your opinion at all?
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Old 12-02-2007, 07:24 PM   #37
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WOW! That information on the check-in part is very interesting.

I guess now the security people and police were in on it too! JUST KIDDING... Trying to keep it light-hearted in here.

That IS indeed very interesting, Moneypenny. If Dale had to check in and didn't, that does change my opinion. In my eyes, the only way he would be in on it is if he knew he could (or could help) steal it, get it out, and get the money for that.

If he didn't check in and there was a very good likelihood the cops would be called, it seems crazy to think he was in on it. Yes, if that part is true, then I would be leaning very heavily towards Dale being a victim.

I don't think the fact he was close to retirement proves anything. Just my opinion, but that could prove he had no reason to steal but it could also be that he was bitter about having to retire and not having enough money, or that he was going to retire without enough money. That could be a pro or a con, depending on the individual. The fact that he could have been caught, though, changes a lot for me.

This is great stuff, Moneypenny. We really appreciate you sharing. You've certainly got me thinking. Our best to you, your mom, and the rest of your family!
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:44 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypenny10
The procedure for the security guards required them to check in with the main plant every hour on the hour. At midnight, Dale missed his first check in and each one after that, of course. The main plant personnel did not notify the local authorities that something was amiss until about 5 a.m., which means they had evidence for 5 hours! that there was a potential situation at the plant. Furthermore, the local police station was located at that time within about a mile or so of the plant. Had police been called after he missed his midnight check-in, they could have been at the plant in minutes. When I questioned the plant personnel about this, they responded that they had someone new on the job at the main plant and this person wasn't sure of the procedures so didn't realize there was a problem, something to that effect.
wow, thanks for that, that is something I was totally unaware of. the segment depicted that the authorities weren't aware until Dale's relief came in at 7 and noticed he was missing, so that would have meant authorities did nothing for almost 8 hours.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:50 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by wiseguy182
wow, thanks for that, that is something I was totally unaware of. the segment depicted that the authorities weren't aware until Dale's relief came in at 7 and noticed he was missing, so that would have meant authorities did nothing for almost 8 hours.
More importantly, in my opinion, if there was a procedure for him to check in and he knew that, it would be pretty risky for him to rob the place and not check in.

In theory, he would only have an hour to do the whole thing. That new evidence really makes me doubt he planned to do it.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:19 PM   #40
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Just watched the segment again, thank you WISEGUY for sending it. The security footage was indeed a re-enactment, but that is about the way the original looked. Watching it now, I think he was signaling for help. Between the cameras, the hourly check-ins, and the local police station being a mile away, he probably thought help would be there any minute.

I remember Max Bizzak of the State Police was always very careful not to imply he ever thought Dale was involved. He too, was very professional throughout the whole thing. I kept in touch with him for some time but then the leads stopped coming in, time passed, etc.

The masked man could have been any former disgruntled worker, many were being cut to a lesser position as dad was to keep his job, and many were simply laid off. Morale was very low as the plant was being sold and jobs were cut or re-structured.

I think the masked man knew Dad and Dad was able to identify him in spite of the mask. Masked man knows Dale carries a gun. He makes Dale hand it over and then takes him through the plant. I truly believe that if Dale thought his life was in danger, he would shoot someone. He was an avid hunter so clearly had no problem pulling a trigger. He was an impeccible shot as well, he never missed any target he aimed at. I know beyond a doubt Dale had his gun with him that night, either on him or in his lunch box, but it was not left in the truck. Whoever it was, they obviously didn't kill him in the plant, that would have left a telltale mess.

The plant personnel didn't ever portray, in a convincing manner, that they thought he may have been an innocent victim. Maybe they were afraid of the potential legal implications should that ever be proven. I remember talking to them and they were not at all kind or compassionate; you could tell they thought he did it. I guess it is better for them that this mystery was never solved.

I think this "marginal" employee lost his life for the plant. I would love to have evidence (a body, a tesimony, something) that would prove his innocence so I could go back to the plant after all these years. Not for anything other than to show them they should have given this long term, dedicated employee the benefit of the doubt. I am sure many town people probably lost respect for Dale because they thought he was in on it, if only because the plant showed no loyalty towards him.

So, if anyone out there knows anything, ever heard anything, I would love to hear from you!
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypenny10
Just watched the segment again, thank you WISEGUY for sending it. The security footage was indeed a re-enactment, but that is about the way the original looked. Watching it now, I think he was signaling for help. Between the cameras, the hourly check-ins, and the local police station being a mile away, he probably thought help would be there any minute.
you're very welcome

I agree, I think Dale was signaling for help. It was speculated by some on the segment that Dale's staring into the camera was a way of flaunting, but I don't think that was the case. Since he would want to be careful not to irritate the robber and put himself in danger, he oviously can't do anything that will draw attention, like wave his arms or something. I think Dale's staring into the camera was his way of signaling for help and that the robber wouldn't see it.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:28 PM   #42
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After getting more info, I believe now that Dale was a victom. I think the plant maid up there mind that he was in on it & so therefore didn't bother to investigate further for other possible scenerios. I think that is really too bad cause they should have checked out everything from Dale being in on it to a disgruntled exmployee doing it, etc.

I now suspect that the person who did this was a disgruntled employee, ex employee or the shady rich guy Dale knew. I have always had him as a possible suspect or he knows who done this. People like him I would never trust know matter how loyal they might be to a person. People like him can turn on others & especially when there is a chance of making a nice sum of cash. Granted he might be completely innocent but it just seems too much of a coincidence that when Dale goes missing a short time after he ups & moves to another state. Then the deal with that doctor. Just somthing is not right with this & I think there is more to the story.

Thanks again for giving us more insight moneypenny. This is one of the UM cases that has always intrigued me. I even has this case on tape & watch it from time to time.

Again I am so sorry that you & your family have not gotten any closure to what happened to your dad & I think it was so wrong for the plant to just believe that Dale was in on it & not investigate other options.
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Old 12-04-2007, 09:32 AM   #43
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I agree, I think Dale was signaling for help. It was speculated by some on the segment that Dale's staring into the camera was a way of flaunting, but I don't think that was the case. Since he would want to be careful not to irritate the robber and put himself in danger, he oviously can't do anything that will draw attention, like wave his arms or something. I think Dale's staring into the camera was his way of signaling for help and that the robber wouldn't see it.
I agree with you...

With this new evidence, I now think he was saying, "I sure as hell hope you're getting all this on tape."

Honestly, otherwise why not smile at the camera, give it the finger, or something else? To put myself in Dale's shoes (or his family) I would hate to be judged for all eternity just because I looked into a camera. It wasn't like he was smirking.
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Old 12-18-2007, 05:06 AM   #44
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Hey P-...I hope all is well with you and the family. When I originally posted back in July I just stumbled on this site as I searched for other folks interested in finding out what occurred with your dad. For some reason I haven't stopped thinking about him, probably because I continue to think about that Rolex dude getting away with something. Their relationship was always suspicious to me. I didn't get it. Do you recall me asking Rolex dude about the origins of his watch and him telling me it was a sales award from his insurance job...yet he never talked about selling insurance? Remember his concubine? What was she, 18-20 yrs. old? To us at the time he appeared to be 70 but was perhaps 50. Perhaps not core to the discussion but a reflection of his character.

Rolex dude and the coincidental doctor probably know what happened to your dad. How could no one have questioned Rolex dude at the time? The circumstances surrounding both of these characters are uncanny.

BTW - Remember your dad leaving me (city boy) in the woods for 5 hours (ok, maybe 2, or 1) in the dark when the atv broke down and the two of you left on his atv to hit get gas (or cocktails)? I know I heard a bear (or a very large deer....)

JB
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:27 PM   #45
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This case has always been troubling to me. For one, this was a pretty good sized plant with valuable platinum...why just have one guard, especially at night???

Anyway, this case kinda reminds me of the Whistle Blown seggie on the Bizarre Murders DVD (Dave Bocks). I think Dale might have possibly been privy to some things going on at the plant that shouldn't have been going on. Maybe he was going to blow the whistle and maybe someone decided to get to him before Dale could do that. It leads me to believe the whole robbery might have been a ruse/set-up to get Dale out of the way and also decredit him. What doesn't make sense to me is if this guy was a so-called "marginal employee" as the personnel manager claimed, why not lay him off or even fire him? It just leads me to believe Dale knew something or found out something and someone had to get rid of him...permanently.
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