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View Poll Results: Was Dale Kerstetter abducted or a co-conspirator?
Abducted 158 77.83%
In on it 45 22.17%
Voters: 203. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-02-2010, 10:04 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngUMfan
I think someone at the company had something to do with the disappearance. Plus, Dale is a relatively easy person who is a security guard, so he is not very visible in the company. And Dale also had troubles with the company. all evidence opinting to something with the company
As I've said before, I can see a point to be made for each scenario. For him being in on it and for him being innocent. I can also see a point to be made for the company "robbing themselves" to collect on the insurance.

One other question I have is, is that the only surveillance camera in the facility? If not, then why didn't any other cameras pick up Dale that night before or after he met with the masked man? If they did pick him up, did it show any additional information? The supervisor seems adamant that the video he watched showed Dale as a co-conspirator, but nothing I saw would definitively say that. Im wondering if there are more surveillance cameras or perhaps more footage that his supervisor saw that we have not seen.
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:10 AM   #137
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I think there might be more video cameras but only that particular video camera captured him. Therefore, that would be another good question Hambone asked.

Another thought of mine was if someone has access to newspaper archives, look up the price of platinum trading around the time of his disappearance. Then, try to see if the price was considered a historical low or high, and then see if there are any correlations with the platinum price and the disappearance
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:32 AM   #138
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Another thought of mine was if someone has access to newspaper archives, look up the price of platinum trading around the time of his disappearance. Then, try to see if the price was considered a historical low or high, and then see if there are any correlations with the platinum price and the disappearance
The black market makes that a moot point.

If there was an underground market demand for the platinum they could sell it for way above market value.

Again, there are several embargoed countries and companies within those countries that could use the platinum.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:40 AM   #139
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As I've said before, I can see a point to be made for each scenario. For him being in on it and for him being innocent. I can also see a point to be made for the company "robbing themselves" to collect on the insurance.
There's a much easier theory.

That the platinum was sold back to them by the robbers. Wouldn;t be the first time that robbers sold what they stole back to the original victim.
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I'm assuming that the platinum was never found but I wonder how closely they looked? I'm sure that they monitored it as best they could but I highly doubt that whoever stole the platinum, did so for reasons if keeping the platinum. It was obviously sold somewhere for a hefty price.
1. As I've said before, there had to have been a buyer in place before the heist. As to whether the buyer or the thieves initiated the heist..that remains to be seen..

2. There are several countries that were under embargo at that time that could use platinum. So it is quite possible that platinum could be sent as far as that. It may have been used to build military weapons.

It could be as simple as the thieves sold the platinum to a smuggling operation on a port and the platinum got shipped to god knows where. Maybe North Korea.
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I think someone at the company had something to do with the disappearance. Plus, Dale is a relatively easy person who is a security guard, so he is not very visible in the company. And Dale also had troubles with the company. all evidence opinting to something with the company
Are you suggesting that Dale was setup as a patsy by Corning?
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:34 PM   #140
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This is one of those cases that has bothered me since I was a kid. I don't think I have ever felt that he was involved in the heist in any way.

I just recently viewed the segment and one thing jumped out at me that I had not seen before. When they show the police dogs searching for Dale's scent in the factory, they show and mention in narrative that his scent was followed to "the tank" which they note as odd because "the tank" was not part of his normal rounds. A few moments later they show the reenactment of the security tapes. The masked man is seen (by himself) at "the tank". Now I know these security tapes are reconstructed, but if what moneypenny says about the reenactment being very close to the original tape, then we can assume this footage at the tank is also accurate. Now, the question comes to mind, if Dale's scent was followed to the tank, where is the security tape showing him at the tank? Does anyone find this odd that this is not mentioned in the segment? If the platinum was taken from this area of the tank, the camera should show the platinum being taken right?
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:52 AM   #141
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wow, folks are quite on this one...
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:20 PM   #142
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wow, folks are quite on this one...
Not really. It's been talked about to death. The consensus among most folks is that he was a victim to a heist and probably met with foul play at some point during the operation. I have the same opinion about this as with most unsolved cases, and that is the most likely scenario based on the evidence available is most likely what had occurred. We'll never know the entire truth of what happened with this case seeing as it's around 20 years old, and Dale's family has most likely moved on and probably accepted that.
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Old 07-20-2010, 03:03 PM   #143
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Quote:
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wow, folks are quite on this one...
Yeah, it's getting bumped a lot lately. Contrary to what the above poster claims, I think the evidence is very ambiguous and doesn't necessarily point to Dale being a victim. And I think a lot of members here are very "fifty-fifty" on this case, but lean slightly towards the victim angle because of how close he was to his family, the forklift ordeal many years before, etc.


Concerning your previous post about Dale's scent being followed to "the tank" but having no video footage of him being there, I'd never once thought about that before. Maybe it was there before and UM decided to cut that portion from their reenactment. Perhaps they assumed if viewers knew his scent was traced to the tank, his going there was probably recorded as well, but for timing reasons or some such thing they decided to omit it.

Of course, I could be completely off mark and you may be on to something. It's hard to discern.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:00 AM   #144
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It just got me thinking that maybe if the dog tracked him there, but he was never picked up on the camera, could it be possible that the dog was either following the masked man's scent, or perhaps if the masked man carried Kerstetter's body out, perhaps the scent lingered on him? Is that possible to transfer a scent?

It also seems possible given what has come up on this board about the company possibly covering something up, that if Kerstetter was seen on the tape, perhaps they withheld it from the police. As to why, I couldn't say for sure. I just find it odd that it wasn't at least mentioned in the narrative even if time was an issue in the segment.

Has anyone seen any news articles of this incident online anywhere? I would appreciate it if anyone has any additional info. I haven't been able to find much on it.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:08 AM   #145
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Another thing comes to mind, if Kerstetter were in on the robbery, it doesn't make a lot of sense. They said in the segment that 250,000 in platinum was taken. Yes, this is a lot of money, even more so by standards back then as opposed to now, but if you take into account that there were at least 2 people involved (if you assume Kerstetter was involved) then that money would be in theory divided in half. 125,000 is a lot, but it sure doesn't seem like enough to just vanish and leave your whole family and start a new life. Even if he managed to flee to Mexico where the money might go a lot further, it just doesn't seem like enough to just give your life up for. I don't know, I don't think he was in on it. I think he is a victim.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:30 AM   #146
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Something just occurred to me on this case. In the re-enactment of the surveillance video, it shows the masked man pushing what was rumored to possibly be the body of Dale Kerstetter. One question I have about that theory is, was he pushing it int he direction of the exit? Was that the only exit in the plant? The reason i ask this is because during the segment when it shows Dale on the video, it says that he wasn't seen on the video again after he disappears from sight. Well if there was only one exit and the masked man was pushing that crate toward the only exit, one would have to assume it was Dale's body since that's the only exit and it doesn't show Dale walking toward the exit.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:33 PM   #147
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My guess is, and i have actually been doing some research on this lately, but if you assume at least that the masked man was pushing (whatever was on the pallet jack) towards an exit, then it is possible that it is the platinum and only the platinum on that pallet jack.

If that is indeed toward an exit, it is also the same direction that Dale and the masked man are headed when Dale looks at the camera. I suggest that if Dale is innocent, and you take the order of events as they are described in the segment (not the order in which they are shown as they show the pieces out of order if you listen carefully to the narrative) then Dale was led out of the exit where he was then dealt with one way or another, and then the masked man went back in (this is described but not shown in the segment) and then goes up to "the tank" area. He is next seen pushing the pallet jack out (the same direction and location as he led Dale earlier).

The UM segment shows the sequences slightly out of order. If you pay close attention to the narrative however, it is possible to piece this scenario together and in my opinion, this points more and more to Dale being nothing but a victim. Or at the least an accomplice that was (I mean no disrespect as I know Dale's family sometimes looks at these posts, I just know of no other way of putting it) dealt with or taken out of the situation completely.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:22 AM   #148
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For such a big company, Corning was doing an unbelievably lousy job managing their business, their property, and their staff. That particular building was being sold, corning was downsizing, cutting jobs, restructuring jobs, demoting people, and cutting salaries.

I'd like to know how many at the management level received pay cuts or lost their jobs. They're really the only ones in a position to juggle things around so they don't suffer the same fate as the blue collar guys.

We've seen with the recent disasters of big companies that the lower level working people take the biggest financial hit while the middle and upper management collect as many bonuses and perks as they can milk out of the place before the whole thing collapses.

The corning plant was about 115,000 to 120,000 square feet, IIRC. It's full of valuables, including the platinum. And their "security" is a demoted guy who's been given a pay cut just before retirement and who management describes as "a marginal employee".

Out of everyone who got demoted or lost their job, corning could only find a marginal employee to take the security guard position? Then, they back him up with a new guy who didn't know that Dale was supposed to make hourly check ins? Who was training these people? Lack of training is management's fault. New hires have to be informed about what their job duties are. Seems pretty basic, but corning couldn't even get that right.

This large corporation apparently had no policies in place to protect their staff and their property. I used to work in a two man office that never had more than $150 in cash in the building and only one computer (the only thing worth stealing) and we had much tighter security than corning.

I've mentioned on here before that I temped at a car dealership back in 2005. That company was going out of business, having their franchises yanked by the manufacturers, they were cutting salaries, firing, and demoting people, But management lived it up until the very end. In the last 6 months, the upper management took one vacation per month, vegas, florida, etc, and charged it to the company until they were completely broke.

Their security was also horrible. They had 10 acres and 4 buildings. Their security cameras were dummys that didn't record anything, yet the manager had a jacuzzi tub in his office. Priorities.... IMO, there's no excuse for fake security cameras in 2005, in a company worth millions of dollars, with so much property at risk, and a couple hundred employees doing everything from paperwork and handling large amounts of cash to repairing huge vehicles sitting over their heads on leaking hydraulic hoists.

There's a part of a car that contains platinum. I think it's a catalytic converter. Well, not surprisingly, one night at the unguarded lot full of new vehicles, several of the cars were vandalized and the platinum was stolen. (However, the joke was kinda on the thieves because they were so inept that they stole fairly worthless mufflers instead of the part containing the platinum.)

My point is, management knows the risks. They know what's on the property that can be targeted by thieves. In platinum alone, corning had hundreds of thousand of dollars worth of material, but guarded it (and everything else) with a low paid guy who they apparently didn't like and didn't trust, and they didn't even have a back up plan.

If the "new guy" didn't know about the hourly security check in procedure, what was he doing with his time on the job? Management needs to account for that, too. Why are they wasting company money by paying an untrained staff member to sit and do nothing all night?

After they fail to put anything in place to protect their property and their staff, they lose the most valuable things in the plant, the platinum and possibly a human life. The only thing they can come up with is to make Dale out to be the thief by saying he was taunting them by briefly staring at the security camera. That's it? That's all the evidence they have against Dale? He was unhappy with the pay cut and stared briefly at a security camera while in the company of an unidentified masked intruder who possibly held a weapon.

IMO, the management in the UM segment came across as trying to shift blame and cover their butts. They didn't protect their most valuable assets, and didn't provide even the basics of a safe working environment for Dale.

Remember the hot molten glass pouring onto the propane tank of the forklift? Why was that potentially deadly scenario even possible? There had to be multiple failures for that to even occur. And who saved several lives in that mishap? Dale. Who, while receiving a low salary to protect their expensive platinum, was possibly kidnapped and killed. They're terrified that the family is going to figure out their negligence and sue them. If they can turn Dale into a suspect or a co-conspirator, the heat is off them and attention is diverted to the missing employee who literally left everything behind.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:54 AM   #149
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http://www.corning.com/about_us/corp...hip/index.aspx

Found that page on the Corning official website. Considering how they ran the plant where Dale worked, I thought this crowing statement about their values and ethics was interesting:

At Corning Incorporated, corporate social responsibility is a proactive commitment to preserving the trust of our stakeholders. The commitment contributes to sustainable economic and environmental development through all our business activities – how we operate, what we sell, how we give, and how we support our people, the communities in which we operate, and society at large.

Corporate social responsibility is intrinsic to Corning’s heritage and it is integral to how we build value and trust in our company. It is also a demonstration of how we live our Values which represent the unchanging moral and ethical compass that guides everything we do. Our collective belief in these Values – and in the behavior that goes along with them – continues to guide all of our decisions as a company. As a result, our employees, shareholders, suppliers, and customers can take pride in associating with Corning.

Our commitment to corporate citizenship has been part of the very essence of our company for more than 150 years; it will sustain our success today, tomorrow, and far into the future.
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Old 09-13-2010, 07:21 AM   #150
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Someone in a previous post mentioned the glass furnace. I found this on the WebSlueths site. It corrects my recollection of the size of the facility, and makes me wonder if Dale ever left the plant at all.

If the furnace area wasn't part of his normal rounds, why was his scent located there? He wasn't seen on the security camera in the tank area stealing the pipe, only the masked man was shown. How much of that furnace "tank" area did the security camera cover? How did the thief cut up the platinum piping and how large and heavy of a load did it turn out to be? Did the company release ALL of the security footage to the police?

>>>>That afternoon, the sheriff's K-9 unit was brought in to track Dale's movements in the 112,000-square-foot factory. The dogs led police to the second floor. This was the site of the plant's glass furnace, also known as "the tank." The tank contained the valuable platinum pipe but was not part of Dale's normal security rounds. Even though Dale's scent was found near the tank, he was nowhere in the building.<<<<

Edit to add this:

The investigator, Inspector Max J. Bizzak said, "Through our investigation we determined Dale Kerstetter was approximately $30,000 to $40,000 in arrears on various payments--trailer payments, vehicle payments and, different bills which he had owed throughout the area."

Was Dale really "in arrears" for 30 to 40k, which means that he was late with that much money, or did he simply have loans in that amount that he was making timely payments on? IIRC, his daughter made a comment that he had a mortgage (and maybe a vehicle loan) which accounted for the debt and that it was a normal kind of debt like everyone else who has a home or cars.

If he was really that late on is debts, why didn't he cash in his corning stock or other investments and bring his bills up to date? (Assuming he had a decent amount invested.) Why wasn't anything repossessed? Why would a lending company allow someone to get that far behind in payments without taking strong action?
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