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Old 07-25-2002, 12:39 PM   #46
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<< I don't understand why you seem so absolutely ready to crucify all the bands and seem to be unwilling to lay blame on the industry and the REAL people who control it: >>

NOBODY forces a pen into these people's hands ands MAKES them sign their lives away! Wouldn't you be just a 'tad' suspicious signing a document with print so small it can hardly be seen? "Let's see...we'll give you each $50,000 dollars, but don't worry about the part that says we OWN everything you do for the next 30 years! No problem...we'll work that out 'later'! OH...Did I mention F I F T Y G R A N D!"

<< The question isn't, does it bother you that ANY popular songs are used in commercials, the question is, does it bother you that some of the greatest and most classic songs of this or any era are cheapened in commercials. >>

I'm not selfish! It's just not MY favorites I worry about. I'm not a Celine Dion fan...but if I heard a tune of hers selling soap or something, I'd STILL shake my head and yell 'SELL-OUT' in my head to myself! It just seems to cheapen the art of to the point of..."Well, if it doesn't get much airplay, I can always sell it to 'Subaru'!" But YES...it probably angers me a little more when it's something I've grown to love over the years!

<< you imply everyone who makes bad deals is on drugs. Well since this seems to be in reply to my comment about Aerosmith making bad deals >>

I didn't mention, nor alluded to Aerosmith in this...

<< However, if some of these artists didn't squander their earnings on drugs and extravagances, or MAKE such lousy deals in a 'drugged out stupor' and get ripped off by greedy managers...maybe they WOULDN'T have to 'sell out' in their 'golden' years! >>

...and you'll see I said 'some' not 'everyone' of these artists! But if anyone deserves the 'Golden Syringe' award, it would be Aerosmith! One of my favorite bands growing up BTW!

And LET'S TALK about Aerosmith! The song 'Just Push Play'...a recent hit of theirs, selling SUV's now if I'm not mistaken! Forget about the 'memory' factor with THAT one! It landed on a commercial SO fast, it left no time for ANYONE to develop memories from it! It's now just another commercial 'jingle' IMO!

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Old 07-25-2002, 02:29 PM   #47
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And LET'S TALK about Aerosmith! The song 'Just Push Play'...a recent hit of theirs, selling SUV's now if I'm not mistaken! Forget about the 'memory' factor with THAT one! It landed on a commercial SO fast, it left no time for ANYONE to develop memories from it! It's now just another commercial 'jingle' IMO!

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Yes, that is sad. It's selling Dodge trucks, BTW. Aerosmith signed some deal with Dodge, wherein Dodge sponsors their tour in exchange for using some songs in their commercials. It does suck...but as I never was a huge fan of that particular song it doesn't bother me too much other than as a principle.

But we will have to disagree about the evil tactics of the recording industry, because you will never convince me that they aren't scumbums. I'm not saying the artists shouldn't take any responsibility for their own actions, but I will never ever in a million years say that the recording industry is not largely responsible for the crappy state of music.
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Old 07-25-2002, 03:46 PM   #48
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NOBODY forces a pen into these people's hands ands MAKES them sign their lives away! Wouldn't you be just a 'tad' suspicious signing a document with print so small it can hardly be seen? "Let's see...we'll give you each $50,000 dollars, but don't worry about the part that says we OWN everything you do for the next 30 years! No problem...we'll work that out 'later'! OH...Did I mention F I F T Y G R A N D!"
Not to belabor this, but when talking about these particular artists (ie The Beatles and others of that era, and a few years after), you need to remember that kids (yes, they are usually young when they start out) were no where near as business-savvy as the youth of today. It would probably never occur to them to be suspicious of a contract. Hey, these were "official" documents drawn up by experts, so why doubt them?

Even today, starry-eyed kids can be duped into signing away most everything. It was especially true years ago.

As far a stars signing current contracts for sponsorship deals: hey, what's wrong with that? Why can't Aerosmith, or any other artist, write songs specifically for an ad? It's quite a lucrative engagement. Yes, it is about money in this case; they get paid quite well for their songs. The reason? Because people like me and you notice the ads, and remember the product. That's the whole point of advertising.
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Old 07-25-2002, 03:58 PM   #49
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To Mysty eyes, I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't know why you say the youth of today are MUCH more business saavy. I've heard recent horror stories of bands and artists being ripped off by managers and the industry just like in the Beatles era. One of the very few examples I can think of of someone who is business saavy would be Madonna and she starrted out in the early eighties.
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Old 07-25-2002, 03:58 PM   #50
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As far a stars signing current contracts for sponsorship deals: hey, what's wrong with that? Why can't Aerosmith, or any other artist, write songs specifically for an ad? It's quite a lucrative engagement. Yes, it is about money in this case; they get paid quite well for their songs. The reason? Because people like me and you notice the ads, and remember the product. That's the whole point of advertising.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with artists writing songs specifically for ads. Even though I don't like the commercial, I don't give a rat's butt if Britney Spears wants to sing about Pepsi. The thing that pontoon objects to is using existing songs in commercials. The song Dodge used from Aerosmith was not specifically written for Dodge, unfortunately, but was taken off their most recent album.

But I agree with everything else you said, Mysty, about kids not being business savvy. Kids and alot of people are just plain gullible sometimes, especially young people who have trouble envisioning the future. Alot of younger people live in the moment and don't think about what the future may bring. Is it their fault? Partially. But they are still being taken advantage of by a behemoth industry with alot of power that most people can't afford (literally and figuratively) to take on.
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Old 07-25-2002, 04:02 PM   #51
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To Mysty eyes, I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't know why you say the youth of today are MUCH more business saavy. I've heard recent horror stories of bands and artists being ripped off by managers and the industry just like in the Beatles era. One of the very few examples I can think of of someone who is business saavy would be Madonna and she starrted out in the early eighties.
Good point kitt. To provide an example: 'NSync signed away their rights to the name "NSync". They've lost alot of money as a result of that, and had to spend money going to court over it.

I think anyone who is starry eyed and eager to have a career in music can easily get swept up into bad contracts, not only young people.
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Old 07-25-2002, 04:41 PM   #52
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There's not really much left to say on this topic, but I agree with about 95% of what pontoon said.
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Old 07-25-2002, 08:02 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by kittflynn
To Mysty eyes, I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't know why you say the youth of today are MUCH more business saavy. I've heard recent horror stories of bands and artists being ripped off by managers and the industry just like in the Beatles era. One of the very few examples I can think of of someone who is business saavy would be Madonna and she starrted out in the early eighties.
Well, I DIDN'T say that today's youth are "MUCH more" savvy. I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the artists of the 60s, etc. "were no where near as business-savvy as the youth of today." And I am fairly confident that that is true. If nothing else TV, film, and the internet keep most people more informed than people were in the past.

I went on to say "Even today, starry-eyed kids can be duped into signing away most everything." So I guess you really agree with me, since I didn't actually say what you believe I did.


Again, as far as using songs from new albums in ads... yeah, it's a form of selling out. But these new songs can't really be called "classics." And can you blame someone for making the bucks? The sponsor's going to buy the song from someone, after all. And as long as we've got to hear the music in the ads it may as well be good music, don't you think?
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Old 07-25-2002, 08:05 PM   #54
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Originally posted by kittflynn
To Mysty eyes, I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't know why you say the youth of today are MUCH more business saavy. I've heard recent horror stories of bands and artists being ripped off by managers and the industry just like in the Beatles era. One of the very few examples I can think of of someone who is business saavy would be Madonna and she starrted out in the early eighties.
Madonna is a prime example of a good business woman. I can only remember 2 occasions that I heard Madonna's songs for a commericial. One was the MTV vote ad that was shown in 1990 (I think) and she was doing a little rap skit with her song "Vogue". The other was something about a vacation spot that played "Holiday" in the background, but it wasn't Madonna singing. Yeah, she is a good business woman though.
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Old 07-25-2002, 08:12 PM   #55
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Oops. Double post.

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Old 07-25-2002, 08:14 PM   #56
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Originally posted by Jenny
Madonna is a prime example of a good business woman. I can only remember 2 occasions that I heard Madonna's songs for a commericial. One was the MTV vote ad that was shown in 1990 (I think) and she was doing a little rap skit with her song "Vogue". The other was something about a vacation spot that played "Holiday" in the background, but it wasn't Madonna singing. Yeah, she is a good business woman though.
Actually, Madonna had a huge contract with Pepsi many years ago. They dropped her FAST after she put out the controversial video for "Like A Prayer." I imagine she might very well have used album cuts in those ads. But we'll never know.
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Old 07-25-2002, 08:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mysty Eyes

Well, I DIDN'T say that today's youth are "MUCH more" savvy. I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the artists of the 60s, etc. "were no where near as business-savvy as the youth of today." And I am fairly confident that that is true. If nothing else TV, film, and the internet keep most people more informed than people were in the past.

I went on to say "Even today, starry-eyed kids can be duped into signing away most everything." So I guess you really agree with me, since I didn't actually say what you believe I did.
Well, you did say some of todays youth are starry eyed so we agree on that but I don't see a difference between saying yesterdays youth were "no where near as savvy" as todays youth, as opposed to saying, todays youth are"much more savvy" then yesterdays youth. What's the difference? The subject is musicians making business decisions pitted up against agents and conglomerats. I don't think the playing field has leveled much over the years in that specific game.

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Old 07-25-2002, 10:45 PM   #58
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Actually, Madonna had a huge contract with Pepsi many years ago. They dropped her FAST after she put out the controversial video for "Like A Prayer." I imagine she might very well have used album cuts in those ads. But we'll never know.
I totally forgot about the Pepsi one! As many times as I've heard that one her Behind the Music and all the Madonna specials, you would've thought I'd remembered that one!
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Old 08-17-2002, 05:07 PM   #59
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I complain when I hear some song from way back and its part of a commercial now, or a bit of it is incorporated in some new pop song. I get pretty much the same response from some--its nothing to get excited about, etc. I am waiting for the day when a Brittany Spears, Oasis, Backstreet Boys hit is used in oh lets say a Kentucky Fried Chicken, or toilet paper or detergent commercial.
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