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Old 04-16-2011, 02:04 PM   #331
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After reading that article, it seems like Ruth and Stephen were surprised in their sleep with Stephen being shot, and then Ruth taken away at gunpoint and killed a mile and a half away. Then it seems like the Killer went back and moved Harkins body into the car (and possibly moved the car as well).
I agree. It seems they where most likely killed at night too. The man who saw Stephen's vehicle said it wasn't unusual to see cars parked in that area so Im assuming with it being an area that was frequented by people that they weren't killed in broad daylight. It really seems odd to me that the killer would tie a tube sock around Cooper's neck and then remove her head. Im still wondering if that is correct.

One possibitly that could explain a few issues here is that the killer may have had a shootout with Riemer. Mike's father did say that he always carried a firearm when checking his traps. A shootout would explain the shell casings being found near Diana. It could be that the killer had to emply his weapon in order to kill Riemer. Diana could have tried to run back to the truck while this was happening where the killer caught up with her and had to resort to stabbing her as his gun was out of ammo. This would also explain the blood in the truck. I remember from one of the articles posted on here earlier that it was speculated that police dogs followed Riemer's scent 300 ft away from the murder scene.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:03 AM   #332
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I agree. It seems they where most likely killed at night too. The man who saw Stephen's vehicle said it wasn't unusual to see cars parked in that area so Im assuming with it being an area that was frequented by people that they weren't killed in broad daylight. It really seems odd to me that the killer would tie a tube sock around Cooper's neck and then remove her head. Im still wondering if that is correct.

One possibitly that could explain a few issues here is that the killer may have had a shootout with Riemer. Mike's father did say that he always carried a firearm when checking his traps. A shootout would explain the shell casings being found near Diana. It could be that the killer had to emply his weapon in order to kill Riemer. Diana could have tried to run back to the truck while this was happening where the killer caught up with her and had to resort to stabbing her as his gun was out of ammo. This would also explain the blood in the truck. I remember from one of the articles posted on here earlier that it was speculated that police dogs followed Riemer's scent 300 ft away from the murder scene.
Seems possible, but I don't see where Crystal would fit into the shoot-out scenario. Unless there was more than one person involved. Crystal's state of "shock" at the store leads me to believe that althought she didn't actually witness her parents being murdered (she may have been sleeping the whole time), she was in a "shock" because a stranger was taking her away from her parents.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:21 AM   #333
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Seems possible, but I don't see where Crystal would fit into the shoot-out scenario. Unless there was more than one person involved. Crystal's state of "shock" at the store leads me to believe that althought she didn't actually witness her parents being murdered (she may have been sleeping the whole time), she was in a "shock" because a stranger was taking her away from her parents.
Im not sure we can really draw any information from Crystal's state of mind when she was found. Whether she saw the murders or was sleeping, either way she's gonna be in some state of shock when she's left at the store. It could be possible that Crystal was in the truck while all of this was going on. It could be that the killer had Diana's blood on him and went to retrieve Crystal from the truck. This could explain the blood on the passenger seat.
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Old 04-18-2011, 01:28 PM   #334
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Im not sure we can really draw any information from Crystal's state of mind when she was found. Whether she saw the murders or was sleeping, either way she's gonna be in some state of shock when she's left at the store. It could be possible that Crystal was in the truck while all of this was going on. It could be that the killer had Diana's blood on him and went to retrieve Crystal from the truck. This could explain the blood on the passenger seat.
But there was no blood found on Crystal, which tells me she was never in Riemer's truck after the murders, and was taken to the store in a different vehicle.
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Old 04-19-2011, 03:07 AM   #335
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But there was no blood found on Crystal, which tells me she was never in Riemer's truck after the murders, and was taken to the store in a different vehicle.
I would agree she was taken to the store in another vehicle but honestly we can't know if she may have had a small amount of blood on her. Keep in mind it was three days before anyone even knew who she was. The police had no idea she may have witnessed a murder and didnt run any tests on her clothing for blood.

I always questioned the idea of an unknown killer dropping her off as that would be such a brazen act. Obviously this raises the chances of being caught. But then you have to imagine that this guy was crazy enough to commit these murders in broad daylight and move bodies around afterwards. So I guess him dropping Crystal off at the store isnt as far fetched as it originally sounded.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:44 AM   #336
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I would agree she was taken to the store in another vehicle but honestly we can't know if she may have had a small amount of blood on her. Keep in mind it was three days before anyone even knew who she was. The police had no idea she may have witnessed a murder and didnt run any tests on her clothing for blood.

I always questioned the idea of an unknown killer dropping her off as that would be such a brazen act. Obviously this raises the chances of being caught. But then you have to imagine that this guy was crazy enough to commit these murders in broad daylight and move bodies around afterwards. So I guess him dropping Crystal off at the store isnt as far fetched as it originally sounded.
If she was taken to the K-mart in a different vehicle, then that would mean one of three different things.

1. The killer (after killing Mike and Diana) drove to the K-mart 30 miles away, dropped Crystal off, and then returned to where Diana and Riemer were killed and moved Riemer's truck (and possibly Diana and/or Riemer's bodies).

2. The killer simply killed Riemer were his skull was found, and killed Diana where she was found. He then took Crystal out of the area in his vehicle. This scenario seems unlikely due to the location of Riemer's truck...it appeared to have been driven to the remote location as an attempt to conceal it from ever being found.

3. There were two killers. One could have transported Crystal out out of the woods while the other was moving Riemer's truck and possibly disposing of evidence that could implicate them.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:41 PM   #337
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This scenario seems unlikely due to the location of Riemer's truck...it appeared to have been driven to the remote location as an attempt to conceal it from ever being found.
It was left on a logging road. The only reason it took awhile to find was that Riemer's friends and family only searched where his trap lines were. They didn't go farther up the road. I believe it was moved further up to make it not stand out in the open, but surely, if it was left on a dirt road, it would be soon found by a hiker, hunter, or logging company employee.

It could have been concealed better by pushing it off road somewhere, into heavy brush. But it was left on the road.
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:21 AM   #338
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It was left on a logging road. The only reason it took awhile to find was that Riemer's friends and family only searched where his trap lines were. They didn't go farther up the road. I believe it was moved further up to make it not stand out in the open, but surely, if it was left on a dirt road, it would be soon found by a hiker, hunter, or logging company employee.

It could have been concealed better by pushing it off road somewhere, into heavy brush. But it was left on the road.
Are you sure it was left right on the road? I remember reading an interview with Lyod Reimer where he said that the truck had been driving through brush and you could see where it had ran over small trees to get back to where it was.
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:35 AM   #339
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If she was taken to the K-mart in a different vehicle, then that would mean one of three different things.

1. The killer (after killing Mike and Diana) drove to the K-mart 30 miles away, dropped Crystal off, and then returned to where Diana and Riemer were killed and moved Riemer's truck (and possibly Diana and/or Riemer's bodies).

2. The killer simply killed Riemer were his skull was found, and killed Diana where she was found. He then took Crystal out of the area in his vehicle. This scenario seems unlikely due to the location of Riemer's truck...it appeared to have been driven to the remote location as an attempt to conceal it from ever being found.

3. There were two killers. One could have transported Crystal out out of the woods while the other was moving Riemer's truck and possibly disposing of evidence that could implicate them.
Well I dont think the first one is likely because I cant imagine the killer driving back 30 miles to the crime scene to move things around. If he made it out of there without being seen why in the world would you go back and risk being seen moving bodies?

I think the second one is more likely then you may think. Riemer may have driven back there to find a christmas tree and gotten ambushed by the killer.

The third scenrio doesn't seem likely as it would leave one killer in the woods and the other again having to drive 30 miles back to get him.

What really baffles me is just where the killer was before this all happend. Did he follow them into the woods? Wouldnt Mike have noticed a strange vehicle follwing them to a remote location? We are pretty sure Mike was armed so wouldnt that have given him an advantage on the killer?
Did the killer just pick that remote location to hang out and wait for a possible victim?? Again its just baffeling.

With Cooper and Harkins you have them camped out near their vehicles overnight. The killer had plenty of time to scope out the area and stalk them until he was ready to strike. Not the case with Mike and Diane though. It seems their murders took place not long after they entered the woods.

I beileve it was said they headed off around 11am so they had a minium of a 30 minute drive to Elbe. Then the killer had atleast a 30 minute drive back to Spanway with Crystal. She showed up in the afternoon so when you try to establish a timeline you will see that they where not wandering around the woods very long before they encountered the killer.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:41 AM   #340
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I beileve it was said they headed off around 11am so they had a minium of a 30 minute drive to Elbe. Then the killer had atleast a 30 minute drive back to Spanway with Crystal. She showed up in the afternoon so when you try to establish a timeline you will see that they where not wandering around the woods very long before they encountered the killer.
Their killer may have known Riemer and Diana and specifically targeted them.

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It was left on a logging road. The only reason it took awhile to find was that Riemer's friends and family only searched where his trap lines were. They didn't go farther up the road. I believe it was moved further up to make it not stand out in the open, but surely, if it was left on a dirt road, it would be soon found by a hiker, hunter, or logging company employee.

It could have been concealed better by pushing it off road somewhere, into heavy brush. But it was left on the road.
It was actually left off the road. And it was driven in an area that was described as hard to find, and the truck was driven into a whole area of brush and trees.
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Old 04-22-2011, 10:48 AM   #341
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Are you sure it was left right on the road? I remember reading an interview with Lyod Reimer where he said that the truck had been driving through brush and you could see where it had ran over small trees to get back to where it was.
The initial reports said it was on an overgrown logging road. Easy to have broken branches and young tree starts on an overgrown dirt road. I think it was moved to conceal it a little, take it away from out of the wide open aread. But the killer could have spent more time to conceal it to never be found. It would not have taken long to conceal Robertson's body better, but she was left near the truck. There were shell casings next to the truck, seems like the killer left that evidence too.

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I believe it was said they headed off around 11am so they had a minium of a 30 minute drive to Elbe. Then the killer had at least a 30 minute drive back to Spanway with Crystal. She showed up in the afternoon so when you try to establish a timeline you will see that they where not wandering around the woods very long before they encountered the killer.
I didn't realize it was such a short time between events.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:31 PM   #342
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Their killer may have known Riemer and Diana and specifically targeted them.



It was actually left off the road. And it was driven in an area that was described as hard to find, and the truck was driven into a whole area of brush and trees.
But if the killer knew them wouldnt that give Riemer even more of an advantage?? If some person that they knew wanted to harm them was following them to a remote location then wouldnt that be even more obvious then a stranger following them??

If someone did have an issue with one or both of them and wanted them dead it seems it was a secret to Mike's freinds and family as well as Diana's because its never been mentioned in the least. That we know of no one connected them was even looked at as a possible suspect.
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Old 04-22-2011, 12:36 PM   #343
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The initial reports said it was on an overgrown logging road. Easy to have broken branches and young tree starts on an overgrown dirt road. I think it was moved to conceal it a little, take it away from out of the wide open aread. But the killer could have spent more time to conceal it to never be found. It would not have taken long to conceal Robertson's body better, but she was left near the truck. There were shell casings next to the truck, seems like the killer left that evidence too.



I didn't realize it was such a short time between events.
Well if you figure the time they left and then the time Crystal shows up back in Spanway and then figure in the times for driving both for Riemer and the killer it becomes obvious they werent out there very long.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #344
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I didn't realize it was such a short time between events.
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Well if you figure the time they left and then the time Crystal shows up back in Spanway and then figure in the times for driving both for Riemer and the killer it becomes obvious they werent out there very long.
N
Oh, I agree with you! I hadn't stopped to think that they got such a late start and that Crystal was found so soon afterward. It wouldn't give the killer much time to hide things very well either.

Edited to add: because of the roads, it takes a lot longer to travel than 30 mins also. Would be at least 45 minutes each way.

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Old 04-22-2011, 08:11 PM   #345
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Oh, I agree with you! I hadn't stopped to think that they got such a late start and that Crystal was found so soon afterward. It wouldn't give the killer much time to hide things very well either.
The killer very well could have went back to the scene after dropping Crystal off. Hell, he had two months (before Diana and Riemer's truck were found) to go back and rearrange things/clean up the scene. And apparently the searches going on weren't very thorough considering police searched the area where Riemer's skull was found recently.

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Originally Posted by kane7474
But if the killer knew them wouldnt that give Riemer even more of an advantage?? If some person that they knew wanted to harm them was following them to a remote location then wouldnt that be even more obvious then a stranger following them??
If Riemer had no idea he was being followed, than no. Also, if Riemer considered the killer a friend or an acquaintance, he probably would have no fear of being murdered. Just picture this scenario for a second:

Riemer's out checking his traps (Diana and Crystal are back towards the truck, looking for a tree and/or waiting for Riemer), and the murderer comes up on him and overtakes him by holding a gun to him. The killer may have known Riemer so he could have easily approached him and then startled him by pulling a gun on him. He leads Riemer into the woods about a mile away from the trap line and murders him. Then the killer goes back, confesses what he's done to Diana (I've always thought there was a good possibility that someone who was an admirer of Diana wanted to kill Riemer for the physical abuse he put Diana through, or to get him out of the way so he could "have" her), then she freaks out and a struggle ensues and the killer stabs her repeatedly. Not knowing Crystal was with them (possibly asleep in the truck), the killer leads her out of the woods in his vehicle and drops her off at the K-mart.

May seem farfetched, but then again if they were killed by someone both Riemer and Diana knew, it very well could have been someone with a crush on Diana. That would explain the nature of her murder (although we're still not sure if Riemer was stabbed repeatedly as well as Diana), and could also offer an explanation to the "I LOVE YOU DIANA" note found on Riemer's dash.

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If someone did have an issue with one or both of them and wanted them dead it seems it was a secret to Mike's freinds and family as well as Diana's because its never been mentioned in the least. That we know of no one connected them was even looked at as a possible suspect.
That could simply be because the family members of Riemer and Diana had no idea what this person had on their mind. Especially if this person was considered a "friend" to one or both of them.
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