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Old 11-19-2014, 09:20 PM   #46
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No Kennedy sought the presidency after rfk was killed.

Completely untrue. Ted Kennedy ran against Carter all the way in the 1980 Democractic Nomination.

In that case, Chappaquiddick had far more to do with Ted's failure to get the presidency than any nefarious plan by the Powers That Be.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:31 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotope
No Kennedy sought the presidency after rfk was killed.

Completely untrue. Ted Kennedy ran against Carter all the way in the 1980 Democractic Nomination.

In that case, Chappaquiddick had far more to do with Ted's failure to get the presidency than any nefarious plan by the Powers That Be.
Thanks for just saving me saying the very same thing.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:10 PM   #48
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YOU GUYS, SERIOUS CONSPIRACY HERE!!! I posted my messages from above, starting with the one to Brad Meltzer, to H2's and Brad Meltzer's Facebook pages and THEY KEEP GETTING DELETED! IT IS NOT A MISTAKE, THEY WERE THERE AND DISAPPEARED AT LEAST TWICE! The one to H2 literally disappeared as quick as I could turn around! I am now copying them to my own Facebook page and see if they stay up!

After eight hours, the repost on Brad Meltzer's page is still up. Posted the following on H2's page and it's still up.

H2, WHY do my posts regarding evidence about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy keep getting deleted? Have I struck a nerve here?? Why do you bring up the subject if you don't want opinions? (I posted the same thing word for word on several message boards and those are still there--so it ain't them...or ME!) I just reposted, came here to post a comment on my post, and it was ALREADY GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to this http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/brain.txt the most likely scenario was that Robert F. Kennedy received all autopsy materials in question and kept those he deemed most important (the main one being the brain), and did not let anyone else in on what he kept or what he did with it, which is only a best guess--no proof! Superintendent John Metzler specifically denied my guess in item 4 above: "Metzler stated further that no one placed anything in the new or old gravesite besides the vault."

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Old 11-20-2014, 03:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotope
Oswald acted alone.

To believe otherwise is to believe that dozens of people were approached and asked if they wished to kill the President, and all immediately said "yes" without exception.
Is that really how you believe a conspiracy works, people are simply asked if they want to kill someone?


Quote:
To believe otherwise is also to believe that the CIA/Mafia/Cubans/USSR (circle where applicable) when planning to kill the President, thought the ideal person to carry out the deed was a mentally unstable, wife beating itinerant labourer, and the best place to carry out the deed was in broad daylight in front of hundreds of witnesses.
Did you forget that it was a sniper who carried out the assassination? Broad daylight wouldn't actually be a problem. You make it sound like Oswald walked up to JFK and shot him point blank. At least use some common sense if you're going to be smug and deal in absolutes.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:21 AM   #50
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Every time I look this up, I hear a new one. Someone proposed that Scanners made Kennedy's head explode (as in the 1981 movie). http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1018315-scanners/ If Jackie was one, I guess it could have been her.

Update to the "Just when you think you've heard them all" file: apparently now some poor sucker has confessed to it! http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/New.../13/id/607211/
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Old 11-21-2014, 03:03 AM   #51
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[EDIT= Snipped for an unduly snarky and unpleasant comment, which, on reflection I shouldn't have made - apologies to anyone who read it]




Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUntouchables
Did you forget that it was a sniper who carried out the assassination?

No, which - per Occam's Razor - invalidates the need for a conspiracy.

Oswald :
a) Was violent (an inveterate wife beater) and mentally unstable
b) Had previously made an attempt on the life of Edwin Walker (by sniper shooting!)
c) Detested Kennedy
d) Had access to firearms and experience in using them
e)Was able to easily access a prime vantage point to fire at the President by dent of his employment
f) Was presented with a prime target ( forget this nonsense about a "miracle shot" - anyone who has been to Dealy Plaza knows how small it is and how anyone with any experience in shooting would have little difficulty in hitting a target the size of Kennedy from the Book Depository Window).
g) Was the only employee of the Book Despository to leave work immediately folowing the shooting
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
i) Was not seen with anyone immediately before or after the shooting.

That's it. There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - that makes it impossible (or even improbable) that LHO acted alone. Hell, if the Powers That Be wanted Kennedy gone, it would have been a far easier to ruin his career by leaking details of his philandering, thereby squashing any re-election hopes in 64, and denying him the status of martyr.

All this talk about conspiracy is basically due to two factors:
a) A refusal to believe that someone as insignificant as a hateful, moronic, wife beating little psychopath like Oswald could kill a President and alter the course of US history;
b) conflicting responses from the witnesses there, who understandably in all the confusion, fear and chaos during and immediately after the shooting (and the echoing acoustics of the Plaza buildings) naturally gave conflicting reports about the number and direction of the shots (Yet STILL, the majority of witnesses reported three shots emanating from the Book Depository window).
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:07 AM   #52
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About the shooting, you can believe what you want to--here's the deal about the brain.

Whatever happened is bad, but only three things are possible. The thing is, 1) Robert F. Kennedy was the ONLY person with access who had ANY motive to take the brain for noble reasons. 2) It was plain carelessness. Almost impossible! How do you lose something so important stored under controlled conditions? 3) Someone other than RFK took it, meaning there was a conspiracy and coverup coming from some very high places! Plain and simple, it takes away the luxury of any possible belief otherwise!
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:57 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotope
No, which - per Occam's Razor - invalidates the need for a conspiracy.

Oswald :
a) Was violent (an inveterate wife beater) and mentally unstable
b) Had previously made an attempt on the life of Edwin Walker (by sniper shooting!)
c) Detested Kennedy
d) Had access to firearms and experience in using them
e)Was able to easily access a prime vantage point to fire at the President by dent of his employment
f) Was presented with a prime target ( forget this nonsense about a "miracle shot" - anyone who has been to Dealy Plaza knows how small it is and how anyone with any experience in shooting would have little difficulty in hitting a target the size of Kennedy from the Book Depository Window).
g) Was the only employee of the Book Despository to leave work immediately folowing the shooting
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
i) Was not seen with anyone immediately before or after the shooting.

That's it. There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - that makes it impossible (or even improbable) that LHO acted alone. Hell, if the Powers That Be wanted Kennedy gone, it would have been a far easier to ruin his career by leaking details of his philandering, thereby squashing any re-election hopes in 64, and denying him the status of martyr.

All this talk about conspiracy is basically due to two factors:
a) A refusal to believe that someone as insignificant as a hateful, moronic, wife beating little psychopath like Oswald could kill a President and alter the course of US history;
b) conflicting responses from the witnesses there, who understandably in all the confusion, fear and chaos during and immediately after the shooting (and the echoing acoustics of the Plaza buildings) naturally gave conflicting reports about the number and direction of the shots (Yet STILL, the majority of witnesses reported three shots emanating from the Book Depository window).
You forgot a few; let me help.
Oswald:
a) Is known to have owned such a rifle, which he bought by mail order. Yes, the picture of him holding it was determined to be real. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/photos.txt
b) Is known to have moved his rifle to the School Book Depository that day. Marina's friend (sorry, forget her name) checked the place where Lee had hidden his rifle, and it was gone. The man with whom he rode to work (don't know his name either) asked what was in the package, Lee said curtain rods.
c) Your item c above is the only one of these I've seen disputed. Marina said Lee loved Kennedy and she couldn't see him against him, but--she said this many years later after being brainwashed by conspiracy theorists. At the time she believed Lee guilty. She is now raising her children and grandchildren to believe he was not--she even authorized him to be exhumed to check that the body in his grave really was his! I feel sorry for her...if you hear enough wacko theories for long enough, it can warp your mind!
d) I think I said earlier that someone (don't know their name either) had remarked on Lee's expert marksmanship--that he continued shooting in a strong wind after others gave up, and continued to hit the target.
e) Whether the three shots could have been made with that rifle has been tested again and again ad nauseum. Yes, entirely possible!
f) Whether the gun was actually in the School Book Depository Window. Well, journalist Robert MacNeil, one of the few still living from that day, said he actually saw the gun being withdrawn from the window and would have taken a picture except he had just used the last shot on his camera. Wanna call him a liar? *
g) Was the magic bullet really magic? In a word...yeah. It would not have had to zigzag if Kennedy and Connelly were lined up just slightly different than the way diagrams originally showed them. And, the bullet which was recovered was not in pristine condition--it's been shown that it could have hit everything it is said to have and been in the slightly damaged condition it was.
h) Ballistics tests showed all the bullets which were recovered (unless they're hiding any) came from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, which was covered with his palm and fingerprints and was in the sixth floor of the building in which he worked to which he had transported the weapon earlier.
i) Oswald was absolutely physically capable of traveling from the SBD to the other places in the necessary amount of time. Some channel (Discovery, I think) on some anniversary (40th, I think) had a guy of the same age, size, and physical condition reenact all this and the guy wasn't even out of breath.
j) If they are hiding "extra" bullets, that would still have to account for why people who were right there and had no reason to lie, such as Nellie Connelly and Clint Hill, said there were only three shots.

About leaking details of Kennedy's philandering to spoil his reelection, a story about his involvement with a German spy was already breaking at the time, but was buried along with him. If others had been behind it, the only reason they'd equip Oswald with such a lousy gun is to make him look like some lone loony loser...and risk him not hitting their target. Not likely.

Besides all you mentioned above...the murder of the policeman being the most incriminating...Oswald's own brother believed him guilty, he did not at all know why. Only his mother, and, much later, his wife, did not believe it.

This is why it bothers me, SERIOUSLY BOTHERS ME AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMEONE REALLY, TRULY EXPLAIN IT--I AM WAITING--
Most of the autopsy photographs have been suppressed or lost--WHY, if they identified the killer and there was nothing to hide?
The car was immediately sealed off by Secret Service and cleaned before any inspection could be made. No one was allowed to look at it or photograph it, so no telling which direction blood spattered, etc. AGAIN, WHY?
Physical evidence, the most important being the brain, just disappeared, right out of the National Archives! WHY? The only "good" reason would be if Bobby Kennedy took it out of family loyalty. This would indicate that, at least in 1965, Bobby believed the case solved. If anyone else took it, it was to hide evidence, plain and simple!

Worst thing, to me, is:
Some of the few surviving autopsy photographs DO NOT MATCH THE OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS OR THE FILM. JUST LOOK AT THEM! The film clearly shows Kennedy being hit in the right side of the head, in front of the ear. Some of the Parkland Staff said they saw such a wound, some didn't, some said he seemed to have been hit from the front, particularly the neck shot. Some seem to have changed their original stories after being pressured. WHY?
A couple of autopsy photographs show the same wound the Zapruder film would indicate, a hole in the right side of the head with little to no damage to the back and top of the head. Others show massive damage to the top and back of the head--they don't match at all and cannot be reconciled! This would indicate that either the film, at least some photographs, or the wounds were tampered with. I tend to go with the wounds, as the Parkland doctor said the neck wound was not at all what he saw, after he worked on it! Now, if Kennedy was absolutely beyond help, why alter the wound, except to conceal that it was possibly made from the front? WHY alter the head wounds? WHY, WHY, WHY???

Apparently Kennedy was hit by two shots from two different directions. http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/ne...fk-conference/ Later, the neck wound was altered and the autopsy photographs concealed for many years so Parkland staff wouldn't see them and blow the case open. Oswald would appear to be one of the shooters and the other has never been identified, nor does it seem to be known whether they were working together.

These things just don't add up. Other than that, I'd tend to believe that Oswald was solely responsible.

51 years.

*CORRECTION: Robert MacNeil spoke to a little black boy, who has never been found, who saw a man with a gun in the window, and probably ran into Oswald as he left the building immediately following the shooting. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3476061/ns.../#.VHLzACgZz-A

The report Robert MacNeil filed the instant he could find a * "Shots were fired as President Kennedy's motorcade passed through downtown Dallas. People screamed and lay down on the grass as three shots rang out. Police chased an unknown gunman up a grassy hill. It is not known if the shots were directed at the President. Repeat. It is not known if the shots were directed at the President. This is Robert MacNeil, NBC News in Dallas."

Almost twenty years later MacNeil made the following comment concerning his initial impressions, "You follow your instincts and mine led me up the grassy knoll. It is one of the personal reasons I have for paying serious attention to those who claim there were shots from there as well as from the Book Depository."

It was Bob Jackson, who captured the iconic image of Oswald being shot by Ruby, who saw the rifle in the window, indicating someone was holding it there--it wasn't just left in the building to frame Oswald! http://www.dallasartnews.com/2010/09...-floor-museum/
Bob Jackson's still photograph is by far the most dramatic image of Ruby shooting Oswald. In the video, Ruby steps between the video camera and Oswald so his back mostly blocks the actual shooting.

*Actually, I wrote the word "phone" there, but because I followed it with a colon (, the board put in that smily and since it looks kind of cool, I'm leaving it. Just so you know, I was not deliberately making fun of Robert MacNeil or whatever state he may have been in when he filed the report.

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Old 11-22-2014, 05:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotope
[EDIT= Snipped for an unduly snarky and unpleasant comment, which, on reflection I shouldn't have made - apologies to anyone who read it]







No, which - per Occam's Razor - invalidates the need for a conspiracy.

Oswald :
a) Was violent (an inveterate wife beater) and mentally unstable
b) Had previously made an attempt on the life of Edwin Walker (by sniper shooting!)
c) Detested Kennedy
d) Had access to firearms and experience in using them
e)Was able to easily access a prime vantage point to fire at the President by dent of his employment
f) Was presented with a prime target ( forget this nonsense about a "miracle shot" - anyone who has been to Dealy Plaza knows how small it is and how anyone with any experience in shooting would have little difficulty in hitting a target the size of Kennedy from the Book Depository Window).
g) Was the only employee of the Book Despository to leave work immediately folowing the shooting
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
i) Was not seen with anyone immediately before or after the shooting.

That's it. There is nothing - absolutely NOTHING - that makes it impossible (or even improbable) that LHO acted alone. Hell, if the Powers That Be wanted Kennedy gone, it would have been a far easier to ruin his career by leaking details of his philandering, thereby squashing any re-election hopes in 64, and denying him the status of martyr.

All this talk about conspiracy is basically due to two factors:
a) A refusal to believe that someone as insignificant as a hateful, moronic, wife beating little psychopath like Oswald could kill a President and alter the course of US history;
b) conflicting responses from the witnesses there, who understandably in all the confusion, fear and chaos during and immediately after the shooting (and the echoing acoustics of the Plaza buildings) naturally gave conflicting reports about the number and direction of the shots (Yet STILL, the majority of witnesses reported three shots emanating from the Book Depository window).
You didn't mention the he defected to Russia in the height of the Cold War and was able to easily come back to the United States with a Russian bride . Just a crazed loner right ? How was he able to travel so much ? He's in New Orleans he's in Mexico he's trying to get into Cuba . Just a poor crazed loner right ? Oswald may well have been the only shooter . But he was following orders . To deny oswalds blatant CIA connections is insane
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:35 PM   #55
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On the November 22 episode of A Prairie Home Companion, Garrison Keillor sang a song about Buffalo, New York, to the tune of "Camelot." I wondered if that was just a coincidence, but later he sang a song titled "JFK" recalling images familiar to anyone who remembers that day or has even studied it. It was a touching remembrance. The show, divided into sections so the song is easy to locate, can be found here: http://prairiehome.publicradio...ten/?date=2014/11/22

I checked the show's archive for last year during the 50th anniversary. On November 23 he rebroadcast an old show and had new shows on November 16 and November 30. The November 16 one was, oddly enough, from Dallas. A link to the complete broadcast can be found here: http://prairiehome.org/shows/november-16-2013/ JFK is mentioned from about the 30-minute to the 33-minute mark, and again before the 40-minute mark, where Keillor interviews a local guest who says Dallas "went from the city that shot Kennedy to the city that shot J. R. when we're not really either," and though it may not be possible for Dallasites to walk through Dealey Plaza without thinking of Kennedy it is perfectly possible to drive through without him crossing their minds.

Interestingly enough, Keillor said that only about one in four Americans remembers that day. My mom and I found this surprising as people are living a lot longer nowadays and you'd think a lot of old people would still be around. I have to count myself among a select group who were around, but too young to remember. I have absolutely no firsthand recollection of a living John F. Kennedy or of the feeling of losing a president. He was a historical figure to me albeit one holding a certain fascination for me from a young age.

Young John had received lessons on executing a proper salute in preparation for a Veteran's Day trip to Arlington National Cemetery just eleven days before the assassination, but his parents were concerned as he kept doing it left-handed.



He received a refresher from a member of the military on the day of the funeral when he again did it wrong. Other than that, it was completely unrehearsed. At just the right moment, he executed a perfect salute which went down in history.

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Old 11-24-2014, 01:11 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush
c) Your item c above is the only one of these I've seen disputed. Marina said Lee loved Kennedy and she couldn't see him against him, but--she said this many years later after being brainwashed by conspiracy theorists. At the time she believed Lee guilty. She is now raising her children and grandchildren to believe he was not--she even authorized him to be exhumed to check that the body in his grave really was his! I feel sorry for her...if you hear enough wacko theories for long enough, it can warp your mind!
Seems Marina was far from the only person to make this assertion, and the others who said it spoke much sooner after the original events. http://22november1963.org.uk/why-did...sident-kennedy

According to this...Oswald's mother was not so far out in saying when he died he was doing great things for the country. http://www.salon.com/2014/11/22/the_...einvestigated/ Good question why he would put the gun in the School Book Depository building, though--that would be a misleading plant directly helping the assassins pull off the crime. I don't think he's innocent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cori aka ChrisSCrush
i) Oswald was absolutely physically capable of traveling from the SBD to the other places in the necessary amount of time. Some channel (Discovery, I think) on some anniversary (40th, I think) had a guy of the same age, size, and physical condition reenact all this and the guy wasn't even out of breath.
Unless you believe the word of coworkers which had him drinking a soda in the lunchroom shortly after the first shot. In which case...not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by isotope
h) In killing Officer Tippet displayed behaviour that was entirely consistent with being an assassin.
So...he didn't do THAT, either? http://rechtiskrom.wordpress.com/201...fficer-tippit/

Posted on a Conspiracy Discussion board:

First post: I never forget when the "Lee Harvey Oswald" episode of Quantum Leap aired and creator Donald P. Bellisario appeared on TV talking about it. His whole point was, he knew Oswald in the Marines and Oswald was crazy then. Oswald did the prior shooting, at the General, alone. (Obviously he had the gun before--since it was mail order and there just wasn't time to obtain it to have especially for Kennedy's visit to Dallas.) Therefore, there was no conspiracy in JFK's murder. He backed this up by saying that, "In all these years no one has come forward saying this is what happened, here's what I did." I was watching with my mom and uncle. One of them cracked, "Yeah, someone's supposed to tell 'How I Shot the President'!" We all hit the floor at that one!

Followup: And...I may end up eating my words on this one. http://jfkmurderjamesfiles.weebly.com/ But, Oswald behaved so extremely suspiciously. If he was a U. S. Government agent associating with these shady characters to infiltrate and out them, he knew who was guilty! If he could not entrust such sensitive information to the Dallas Police, why not demand a Federal Investigator to whom he would reveal the real killers before ever being taken from incarceration, out into the open where another conspirator could silence him...forever? Either really DUMB, or he was GUILTY in some incriminating aspect of the crime!

Disputations with links to more disputations of the James Files version of events: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/files.htm

Oswald's virtual flowers turned off. What are the odds? http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...ge=gr&GRid=781
Interesting and mostly nice notes to his mama: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...GRid=59563475&
But none for Jack Ruby! http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...ge=gr&GRid=911

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Old 11-24-2014, 08:26 PM   #57
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Why would they? There's no mystery. It was Oswald and he did it on his own. Kennedy was hit with 2 bullets, 1 of which also penetrated Gov. Connelly. There was no "magic bullet". Any evidence to the contrary is purely circumstantial and a means for a lot of people to make money off books and interviews saying the myth that there was a vast conspiracy at work. Sorry, but the simplest explanation tends to be the right one and the only theory that has every held up to the forensic FACTS of the case point to the conclusion that Oswald shot Kennedy (and Connelly) on his own. It was him and him alone.
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Old 11-25-2014, 12:10 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by GeekBoyGreg
Why would they? There's no mystery. It was Oswald and he did it on his own. Kennedy was hit with 2 bullets, 1 of which also penetrated Gov. Connelly. There was no "magic bullet". Any evidence to the contrary is purely circumstantial and a means for a lot of people to make money off books and interviews saying the myth that there was a vast conspiracy at work. Sorry, but the simplest explanation tends to be the right one and the only theory that has every held up to the forensic FACTS of the case point to the conclusion that Oswald shot Kennedy (and Connelly) on his own. It was him and him alone.
Jack Ruby was a hero. When he shot Oswald, Jack Ruby created a conspiracy industry which has enriched countless Americans and provided endless hours of entertainment. Not to mention Bob Jackson's photo of it is cool. Why would people leave rude comments on Jack Ruby's findagrave memorial?



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Old 11-25-2014, 04:03 AM   #59
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Creepy Commercial Conspiracy Coincidence! CBS coverage of JFK assassination with mocking modern conspiracy theory commentary, http://truthstreammedia.com/creepy-f...assassination/ but the commercial which aired directly following the bulletin is fit for The Twilight Zone! My guess would be whoever was in charge simply aired whatever ad was due to come up next, or reached for whatever first came to hand as they could not on any account go to black (as happened once years later in an amusing little incident when Dan Rather refused to go on camera). Eerie, creepy and ironic to say the very least!
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Old 11-25-2014, 05:20 AM   #60
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There's no mystery. It was Oswald and he did it on his own.... It was him and him alone.
Wow. You are really in the minority! Check it: http://content.time.com/time/special...861003,00.html
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