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Old 02-13-2009, 02:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mastermind
Soon there was another startling revelation. A witness claimed to have seen Arnold, accompanied by three other people on New Yearís Eve, almost three weeks after he was reported missing. Authorities brought the witness in for a polygraph exam. She passed.
She might have honestly thought she saw Arnold, yet it was someone else. This could be why she passed the lie detector. It's not a lie if you think you are telling the truth. But I still think she saw someone else.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:21 PM   #32
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She might have honestly thought she saw Arnold, yet it was someone else. This could be why she passed the lie detector. It's not a lie if you think you are telling the truth. But I still think she saw someone else.
Always a possibility, but you couple this with the possibility that Arnold was not wearing the same clothes and the fact that his body was not frozen to the ground and was in excellent condition as opposed to Ruby.

Also with the bizarre reason why Arnold was not in the car and rescued one person but left the other...

Also pair that with the tuft of hair of Rubys found.

..the evidence starts to lead to to the bodies being place in the ditch at different times.

Not to mention how the heck could several police and volunteers they miss TWO heavyset people in that ditch?

Keep in mind the only witness we have to the events of the accident is the cousin(?). For all we know the car may have been run off the road by someone.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:31 PM   #33
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The woman who said she saw arnold in the car passed her polygraph (believing that she really saw him) and the people who were actually in the car with "arnold" failed their polygraphs.

What does that mean? Did the cops ask, "Was arnold in the car with you?" and they lied and said, "No." when arnold really was with them. Or did they lie and say "Yes" when they knew that the guy with them really wasn't arnold. I'm confused on why they failed their polys.

Arnold and Ruby were found only 75 feet from where their car crashed. Yet Ruby was supposedly already showing signs of extreme hypothermia (imo) by having her shoes off. Unless she had been walking around for a long time, and then finally ending back near the car, that wouldn't make any sense.

For Ruby to be suffering from extreme hypothermia, she would have to have been outside a lot longer than it takes to walk just 75 feet from the car. If the hypothermia doesn't explain the missing shoes, what does? Could she have been walking around in deep snow and they were pulled off her feet?
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:23 PM   #34
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Unless extremely deep snow fell between the accident and the search, it's hard to see how those bodies could have stayed hidden. I had heard that Arnold was sighted in company of others sometime after, but didn't realize the others were identified and failed polygraph tests.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:27 AM   #35
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I've been watching Unsolved Mysteries for a while, and this case really baffles me!
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:57 PM   #36
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For Ruby to be suffering from extreme hypothermia, she would have to have been outside a lot longer than it takes to walk just 75 feet from the car. If the hypothermia doesn't explain the missing shoes, what does? Could she have been walking around in deep snow and they were pulled off her feet?
I would need to see this episode again, but I can tell you that one sign of hypothermia is your body begins to feel very very hot. Often when bodies are found they are naked, as people have stripped their clothes off as they feel like they are burning up. Now that certainly does not explain everything but it could explain her shoes being off.

But then again I am in the camp of it being two kids, drunk and wandering around and they probably slipped and fell and died of exposure. I have a lot of respect for the police but there were probably some police oversights in this case.

But it is still an unsolved mystery!
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Old 02-19-2009, 05:39 PM   #37
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But then again I am in the camp of it being two kids, drunk and wandering around and they probably slipped and fell and died of exposure. I have a lot of respect for the police but there were probably some police oversights in this case.

Again, it wasn't one person they missed. The police missed two heavyset individuals and one of them who wore a bright red coat.

Question?
How soon was she found compared to the approx.. time of the accident?
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:23 PM   #38
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Best I can remember, the accident happened on December 12, 1992 and Ruby was found floating in the ditch the next year in the late winter or early spring, approximately 3 months. That's when they realized how close she was to where the accident happened, only 75 feet. They then began looking for Arnold, but had to drain the ditch to find his body.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:51 PM   #39
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I might be willing to again entertain the thought that there was foul play in this case if someone would come forward with a suspect, a motive, a plausible scenario where all the pieces fit, anything that would point in that direction.
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:44 PM   #40
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This was one of those cases where it always seemed to me that the police were so intent on calling it foulplay because they didn't want to admit that they had royally screwed up when they didn't find the bodies that night or the next day.

As for how one of them could have had such severe hypothermia that she stripped off her shoes when she was only 75 feet from the car, the simple answer to me is that she was wandering around out there.
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:45 PM   #41
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I might be willing to again entertain the thought that there was foul play in this case if someone would come forward with a suspect, a motive, a plausible scenario where all the pieces fit, anything that would point in that direction.
Its important to keep in mind that the car keys are an important piece of evidence. A lot of the accident theory hinges on those keys not being of significance. If the owner of vehicle or house they belonged to where to be identified -that introduces a whole new element to this case as well as a potential suspect/witness.

For example if the keys belong to a local tough or drug dealer. That opens a whole new angle on the case.

Regadless what your theory is there is still a mystery of who is the owner of the keys that needs to be solved.

Suspects?

Well, for the murder of Ruby, that would most likely be Arnold or person(s) on the behest of Arnold.

As for Arnold, most likely he was killed by the persons who helped hide him or commit Rubys murder. Perhaps the people that were seen with Arnold months later after the accident. Has to be a reason why all of them failed a polygraph. They were nervous about something.

How about the owner of he keys? I think having your keys in a dead person pocket is pretty suspicious.

Motive?

Arnold was having trouble with keeping a child and taking care of Ruby. An opportunity was afforded him to walk away from those responsibilities. Maybe he murdered Ruby, maybe he just simply walked away and asked for help from local criminals to hide him, till he can go to Canada or wherever.

They even gave him keys to a house to use and a car that he could use if he was going to drive to the Canadian Border.

Something goes wrong, and these criminals either killed Arnold or maybe Arnold dies of a drug overdose. The criminals take his body and dump it in the same area that the crash occured. (not a mean feet since that area was overed by police so often, it's probably very easy to find the)


There won;t be a theory that fits all the pieces, for the reason that we don;t know all the pieces. Evidence is missing and in the case of the keys, evidence is incomplete)

The accident theory is a theory based on incomplete or missing evidence.

If you follow the evidence as is, it leads more to foul play

1. Two bodies found separate times in different conditions of decomp, and potentially in Arnold's case with different clothes. In Arnolds case, his clothes were not frozen to the ground whereas Ruby's was.
2. Witness to the crash, cannot verify Arnold's whereabouts at the time of the crash. Unknow individual rescued Ruby, but failed to rescue witness. No real proof that it was Arnold who opened the car door. No real proof that witness story is true.
3. After rigorous search by law enforcement of two heavy set individuals, no bodies where found near crash site.
4. Reports by witness of Arnold seen months later after the crash with a group of individuals. Witness passes polygraph, suspected individuals do not.
5. Keys for both a car and house are found in Arnolds body. Keys have not been matched to any vehicle or house.

Last edited by Mastermind; 02-20-2009 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:57 AM   #42
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Mastermind,

Just to clarify, I believe that Arnold was supposed to have been seen 3 weeks after the accident, around or on New Years, but not months later.

Also, I'm confused about whether or not either one of the victims was frozen to the ground. I thought Ruby was found floating in the recently thawed ditch.

Arnold was found submerged in the same ditch. They said that he wasn't frozen to the ground, yet he's fully under the water. I wonder if the ditch was only partially thawed and Arnold was under a layer of ice, keeping his body from being discovered.

I think it's really odd that a heavy set young man like Arnold would not be floating, but a quite badly decomped body like Ruby was.

In Ruby's case, was it just her clothing that was frozen to the ground? Maybe she was originally in the same condition as Arnold, but in a freeze/thaw cycle she ended up with her body floating and some of her clothes frozen to the ground.

Since they had to pump a lot of water out of the ditch to find Arnold, yet Ruby was supposedly frozen to the ground, I think a freeze/thaw cycle could explain some of that. Especially since she was at the top of the ditch and that's where it's going to freeze first, as soon as cold temperatures come back, and Arnold was found fully underwater, not frozen to anything.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:01 AM   #43
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Also, I'm confused about whether or not either one of the victims was frozen to the ground. I thought Ruby was found floating in the recently thawed ditch.
According to the episode, they mentioned in regards to Arnolds body, that Arnold clothes were not frozen together or to the ground. At least that's what i thought they said. I think it's also on unsolved.com

In any regards i still point to the keys as being an important part of the case.
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:08 PM   #44
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Yep, I wanna know about those keys too. Why were they not matched to anyone known to Arnold or those known to his circle of friends? Are they really connected to someone who was a stranger to Arnold?

And now that I'm thinking about it, this is a lot like the Dick Hansen murder. All we have on this story is Tracy's account of what happened. We can't really be sure that Arnold was even driving the car when the accident occured.

It's reported that all three in the car had been drinking. The intersection where the accident happened is supposed to be somewhat isolated. Tracy says something that I think is a bit odd.

In her recollection of the events, she says that Arnold pulled up to the stop sign, he said, out loud, that there were no cars coming, and then he spun out from the stop sign and wrecked the car.

What kind of drunk driver is talking out loud about the road conditions at an out of the way intersection in the middle of the night? Wouldn't most drivers, drunk or sober, just kinda notice that there are no headlights around them and then keep on driving, without giving oral commentary? I think it's weird that Arnold is supposed to have made a statement about the fact that there were no oncoming vehicles.

Unless, they were out fishtailing and doing donuts on purpose. Then, they would have a reason to be looking for oncoming traffic and would mention out loud to each other that there were no cars in the area and it was clear to take off doing wild street tricks. OR if Tracy is making up her story to fit the conditions and is filling in details that she thinks makes sense.

Here are Tracy's words:

We came up to that stop sign. That’s all I remember is just him looking and, saying there are no cars and him spinning out from the stop sign. And it was just like the snap of a finger and the next thing you know, we ended up in the ditch.

I was upside down in the ditch and Ruby and I was in the car you know. Arnold wasn’t in the car. I don’t know where he was. Ruby was crying. She was saying oh my God, oh my God. She just kept hitting the car.

The next thing I know, the door, it was open a little ways and she had enough room where she slid out. And then so I was going to reach over and then it was just like that, the door went shut.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:29 AM   #45
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Yep, I wanna know about those keys too. Why were they not matched to anyone known to Arnold or those known to his circle of friends? Are they really connected to someone who was a stranger to Arnold?

And now that I'm thinking about it, this is a lot like the Dick Hansen murder. All we have on this story is Tracy's account of what happened. We can't really be sure that Arnold was even driving the car when the accident occured.

It's reported that all three in the car had been drinking. The intersection where the accident happened is supposed to be somewhat isolated. Tracy says something that I think is a bit odd.

In her recollection of the events, she says that Arnold pulled up to the stop sign, he said, out loud, that there were no cars coming, and then he spun out from the stop sign and wrecked the car.

What kind of drunk driver is talking out loud about the road conditions at an out of the way intersection in the middle of the night? Wouldn't most drivers, drunk or sober, just kinda notice that there are no headlights around them and then keep on driving, without giving oral commentary? I think it's weird that Arnold is supposed to have made a statement about the fact that there were no oncoming vehicles.

Unless, they were out fishtailing and doing donuts on purpose. Then, they would have a reason to be looking for oncoming traffic and would mention out loud to each other that there were no cars in the area and it was clear to take off doing wild street tricks. OR if Tracy is making up her story to fit the conditions and is filling in details that she thinks makes sense.

Here are Tracy's words:

We came up to that stop sign. Thatís all I remember is just him looking and, saying there are no cars and him spinning out from the stop sign. And it was just like the snap of a finger and the next thing you know, we ended up in the ditch.

I was upside down in the ditch and Ruby and I was in the car you know. Arnold wasnít in the car. I donít know where he was. Ruby was crying. She was saying oh my God, oh my God. She just kept hitting the car.

The next thing I know, the door, it was open a little ways and she had enough room where she slid out. And then so I was going to reach over and then it was just like that, the door went shut.
I think Tracy should've said more on the Unsolved Mysteries segment...Maybe Tracy is hiding something? ... That does seem odd that Arnold would say that at the intersection. The keys seem to be an important part to the case...
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