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Old 01-03-2011, 01:01 PM   #121
TheCars1986
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Here is a thought, if we suppose that Riemer is guilty of killing Diana, then he would almost have to be the killer of the other couple. To assume otherwise would get into a lot more speculation and while not impossible, I think it would get into the realm of unlikely.

I personally feel there is some possibility of there being an as yet unidentified killer guilty of killing at least four people. However, I did notice while watching the segment recently that Diana's friend says something along the lines of Mike telling her that he could kill her and get away with it.

Supposing this is accurate, one could speculate that either:

-Mike was a at least some what established serial killer that had at least killed one couple already.

Or:

-Mike had been planning this long enough and thorough enough that he already killed one couple simply as a diversion as he was already planning to kill Diana.

He could easily have known ahead of time -even several months earlier- that they would be going to look for a tree in a remote location. So he goes up while checking trap lines and comes across the two campers and offs them. What better cover story to have than a serial killer who separates his victims bodies? He could have invented the sock as a signature, and had some kind of plan in motion to get out of the area undetected.

Not saying that's how it went down, but its possible.
I just don't see why Riemer would plan to murder a random couple in an attempt to throw away suspicion from him if his intent was to murder Diana. I don't think Riemer would have any prior knowledge about the Christmas tree trip because Diana had a restraining order filed against him. And there was no guarantee that she was going to take him back after filing it. But even if he knew in advance that the odds were high that she would take him back, why even bother taking Crystal along if he was planning to kill Diana? She was a potential witness against him, and he knew he had to either kill her as well or take her away from the location just to come back to get rid of his truck. Plus the way Diana was brutally murdered suggests some sort of rage killing.
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:25 AM   #122
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I just don't see why Riemer would plan to murder a random couple in an attempt to throw away suspicion from him if his intent was to murder Diana. I don't think Riemer would have any prior knowledge about the Christmas tree trip because Diana had a restraining order filed against him. And there was no guarantee that she was going to take him back after filing it. But even if he knew in advance that the odds were high that she would take him back, why even bother taking Crystal along if he was planning to kill Diana? She was a potential witness against him, and he knew he had to either kill her as well or take her away from the location just to come back to get rid of his truck. Plus the way Diana was brutally murdered suggests some sort of rage killing.
Rage killing, yes you are right when you say this. Could it be the same guy that kicked in her door and threw her on the ground? The same guy that had been cited for domestic violence several times??
It could be the Riemer killed the other couple because he was simply a killer. Then he got angry with Diana and killed her and just after that decided to make them look the same. Anything is possible here

It has been speculated that if Riemer was not the killer of the first couple then he could not have known about the tube sock. This is not true. Even if police didnt give this info out. Mike's father was a retired game warden and I gaurantee you that he knew the details as cops share info like that. Also it happened in an area Mike trapped in so he had more then likely heard the details too.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:08 PM   #123
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Rage killing, yes you are right when you say this. Could it be the same guy that kicked in her door and threw her on the ground? The same guy that had been cited for domestic violence several times??
It could be the Riemer killed the other couple because he was simply a killer. Then he got angry with Diana and killed her and just after that decided to make them look the same. Anything is possible here

It has been speculated that if Riemer was not the killer of the first couple then he could not have known about the tube sock. This is not true. Even if police didnt give this info out. Mike's father was a retired game warden and I gaurantee you that he knew the details as cops share info like that. Also it happened in an area Mike trapped in so he had more then likely heard the details too.
I too believe that Riemer and others in the town heard certain details about the Cooper/Harkins homicide, but there's no guarantee he would be able to duplicate the knot that was used. According to the investigator on the case, the hairs on his neck stood up when he viewed each sock and the knot that was used to tie them. To me that suggests it was the work of the same person. I just don't see how Riemer (an itinerant roofer) would have the wherewithal to remember the previous homicides and try to frame the unknown killer. If responsible his first priority would to get Crystal out of the area, and then to dump his truck and hightail it out of the area. Why even bother taking the time to tie the sock around her? It just seems like a moot point to me for someone who had planned to flee and start a new life to waste time with something as petty as that.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:55 PM   #124
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I too believe that Riemer and others in the town heard certain details about the Cooper/Harkins homicide, but there's no guarantee he would be able to duplicate the knot that was used. According to the investigator on the case, the hairs on his neck stood up when he viewed each sock and the knot that was used to tie them. To me that suggests it was the work of the same person. I just don't see how Riemer (an itinerant roofer) would have the wherewithal to remember the previous homicides and try to frame the unknown killer. If responsible his first priority would to get Crystal out of the area, and then to dump his truck and hightail it out of the area. Why even bother taking the time to tie the sock around her? It just seems like a moot point to me for someone who had planned to flee and start a new life to waste time with something as petty as that.
Mike Riemer seemed to more than an "itinerant roofer" as you put it. He was a skilled outdoorsman,an accomplished guitarist and probably several other things. Nothing that I have read nor seen made it seem that he was of lower than average intelligence.

He easily could have planned this beforehand...or have adapted the Diana's murder to fit something that would confuse the authorities when/if they ever found her. Looks like he did a good job.

Crystal being alive almost certainly means that Riemer is responsible. There would be no reason for a third party killer to have either not killed her at the crime scene or have left her to die of exposure and thirst, which wouldn't have taken long in the cold weather. The person that dropped her off was concerned that she be found and kept safe which is why he left her in a public places instead of wandering around the streets somewhere.

The sock tied this killing to the other two. Riemer's disappearance simply added mystery to a situation that really lacks it. Riemer obviously didn't feel enough remorse to off himself after Diana, but did have an idea (or several) of how to stall an investigation into the murder(s) and his own disappearance.

In fact, had the man w/ the dog not gone far enough down that logging road, it's likely that Diana would remained their until her remains were scattered by animals or decayed to the point of being unrecognizable. He seems to have been one portion of this entire event that the killer didn't plan for.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:30 PM   #125
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Mike Riemer seemed to more than an "itinerant roofer" as you put it. He was a skilled outdoorsman,an accomplished guitarist and probably several other things. Nothing that I have read nor seen made it seem that he was of lower than average intelligence.

He easily could have planned this beforehand...or have adapted the Diana's murder to fit something that would confuse the authorities when/if they ever found her. Looks like he did a good job.

Crystal being alive almost certainly means that Riemer is responsible. There would be no reason for a third party killer to have either not killed her at the crime scene or have left her to die of exposure and thirst, which wouldn't have taken long in the cold weather. The person that dropped her off was concerned that she be found and kept safe which is why he left her in a public places instead of wandering around the streets somewhere.

The sock tied this killing to the other two. Riemer's disappearance simply added mystery to a situation that really lacks it. Riemer obviously didn't feel enough remorse to off himself after Diana, but did have an idea (or several) of how to stall an investigation into the murder(s) and his own disappearance.

In fact, had the man w/ the dog not gone far enough down that logging road, it's likely that Diana would remained their until her remains were scattered by animals or decayed to the point of being unrecognizable. He seems to have been one portion of this entire event that the killer didn't plan for.
Yes and as Mike's father put it in the newspaper interview " there was no reason for them to be where the truck was found". It was moved there so as to keep in from being found anytime soon. Riemer knew those woods like his own backyard and very well could have moved the truck and Diana back there after killing her. It was said that the truck was driven through brush and you could see where small trees and branches where knocked down in its path. I wouldnt think he would take a small non four wheel drive vehilcle into terrian like that. Unless ofcourse he was planning on leaving it and didnt care about his vehicle.

One more thing to consider here for people who dont feel Riemer is the responsible party.. There was an extensive search for the body of Mike Riemer and nothing ever turned up. Even after the searches ended you have to consider this is an area that is frequented by campers, hikers, hunters etc etc and still no body for 25 years. Now consider that there was little if any effort put into finding Mike Riemer the live person. No nationwide manhunt, No profile on national TV for three years, Not being sought by FBI or any federal agency.
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:58 PM   #126
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Yes and as Mike's father put it in the newspaper interview " there was no reason for them to be where the truck was found". It was moved there so as to keep in from being found anytime soon. Riemer knew those woods like his own backyard and very well could have moved the truck and Diana back there after killing her. It was said that the truck was driven through brush and you could see where small trees and branches where knocked down in its path. I wouldnt think he would take a small non four wheel drive vehilcle into terrian like that. Unless ofcourse he was planning on leaving it and didnt care about his vehicle.

One more thing to consider here for people who dont feel Riemer is the responsible party.. There was an extensive search for the body of Mike Riemer and nothing ever turned up. Even after the searches ended you have to consider this is an area that is frequented by campers, hikers, hunters etc etc and still no body for 25 years. Now consider that there was little if any effort put into finding Mike Riemer the live person. No nationwide manhunt, No profile on national TV for three years, Not being sought by FBI or any federal agency.
I agree. After 25 years, if Riemer was murdered in this area and not buried (burying not being the MO of this killer,BTW) then some trace of Riemer would have turned up by now. Bones, metal objects,etc...something would have turned up if Riemer were killed in the vicinity.

And the area where Diana was found was searched extensively during the hunt for the serial killings that were linked to Gary Ridgeway (the Green River Killer) as well as those that haven't been linked to anybody as of yet. If Riemer were there, they probably would have found at least traces.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:03 PM   #127
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Riemer's body not being found yet really means nothing. Look at Arnold Archambeau and Ruby Bruguier, their bodies were found in a ditch that was extensively searched beforehand and police seemed to have missed them on their initial search. We really don't know how extensive their searches went for Riemer. It took two months to find Ruth Cooper's body, which was only a mile away from the murder site of Stephen Harkins. I think it's entirely possible that his body is still out in those woods, yet to be discovered.

As for someone sparing Crystal's life, we really can't rationalize what a serial killer would do. Obviously if this is an unknown assailant, he's out picking off couples at random for his sick purposes. So if he's capable of doing that, why is it so far fetched that he/she/they would spare the 2 year old? Perhaps this person did not know the prescence of Crystal when Riemer and Diana were murdered. We simply do not know. I know I've said it before, but I don't see why Riemer would drive out of the woods and go thirty miles just to go back to the woods and leave his truck. And if we are to assume that Diana was killed where she was found, what was the guarantee that he would be able to find Diana's body? And if Diana was moved from where she was killed, why take her body out of the truck just to leave it lying on the ground a few feet away. This would further implicate Riemer to leave Diana's body right in front of his abandoned truck. If Riemer planned this he certainly (being a trapper and with his extensive knowledge of the wilderness) could have hidden Diana's body and his truck in a better location. Everything would point to him being the killer by leaving his truck, Diana's body, the note, and Crystal alive. Something a cunning killer who was trying to start a new life would not have done.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:23 PM   #128
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Riemer's body not being found yet really means nothing. Look at Arnold Archambeau and Ruby Bruguier, their bodies were found in a ditch that was extensively searched beforehand and police seemed to have missed them on their initial search. We really don't know how extensive their searches went for Riemer. It took two months to find Ruth Cooper's body, which was only a mile away from the murder site of Stephen Harkins. I think it's entirely possible that his body is still out in those woods, yet to be discovered.

As for someone sparing Crystal's life, we really can't rationalize what a serial killer would do. Obviously if this is an unknown assailant, he's out picking off couples at random for his sick purposes. So if he's capable of doing that, why is it so far fetched that he/she/they would spare the 2 year old? Perhaps this person did not know the prescence of Crystal when Riemer and Diana were murdered. We simply do not know. I know I've said it before, but I don't see why Riemer would drive out of the woods and go thirty miles just to go back to the woods and leave his truck. And if we are to assume that Diana was killed where she was found, what was the guarantee that he would be able to find Diana's body? And if Diana was moved from where she was killed, why take her body out of the truck just to leave it lying on the ground a few feet away. This would further implicate Riemer to leave Diana's body right in front of his abandoned truck. If Riemer planned this he certainly (being a trapper and with his extensive knowledge of the wilderness) could have hidden Diana's body and his truck in a better location. Everything would point to him being the killer by leaving his truck, Diana's body, the note, and Crystal alive. Something a cunning killer who was trying to start a new life would not have done.
1) Actually Riemer's body would have been the proof that he wasn't the killer. His being missing (along w/ Crystal being left at the store) are among the primary reasons that he is suspected of committing all of the crimes.

The other cases that you quoted has a number of differences from this one including the fact that at some point the bodies were submerged in an icy pond and that they were found where they "supposed" to be.

2) It's exceptionally unlikely that the killer would have risked capture by returning the child to the exact K-Mart that Riemer had been to prior to going into the woods. How would the killer know where to go and why would he have dropped her off there?

Seriously, why bother? The killer would have no feelings for the child and simply leaving her in the woods would have solved all of his problems w/o him having to have made any effort. That seems more plausible than dropping her off in front of a store where witnesses might see you doing as such.

Or...why wouldn't a killer have taken the child with him? There are (unfortunately) many unpleasant things that killer could have "done" w/ a young child and there also people would purchase a young child no questions asked. It's a pretty sick world out there and I'm certain that a serial killer would an expert on that fact.

3) Given that years passed before Riemer's case garnered national attention, it seems that if he planned this, then he did an excellent job as after three years he would look different, be in a different part of the country (or world) and had never been stopped or arrested by the police using his real identity.

Almost every aspect of this case points towards Riemer being an extremely intelligent individual that has capitalized on lack of attention his crimes got until well after he committed them and that has managed to successfully elude authorities over an extended period of time.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:21 PM   #129
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2) It's exceptionally unlikely that the killer would have risked capture by returning the child to the exact K-Mart that Riemer had been to prior to going into the woods. How would the killer know where to go and why would he have dropped her off there?
I believe you are referring to a newspaper article that says Riemer, Diana, and Crystal were all last seen at the K-Mart store before they went out on their trip. But I have found only one article that says they were at the K-mart where Crystal was found later. Here's an interesting tidbit from one of the articles:

"Michael, who works for a Seattle roofing company, traps mink, coyote, muskrat and bobcats in the winter and sells their fur to supplement his income. The three weres to return to Puyallup by nightfall the day they went out. When they did not return by the next morning, Lloyd notified the Pierce County Sheriff's Office. The case took a bizarre turn a few days later when two women found an abandoned child wandering around the K-Mart parking lot in Spanaway. The child was 2-year-old Crystal."

And from other articles:

"Riemer, Robertson and the toddler had gone out in Riemer's red 1982 Plymouth pickup to set and check traps along the Nisqually River. The next day, young Crystal mysteriously turned up at a K-Mart parking lot in Spanaway, Pierce County. She is now living with her grandmother."

"The couple hasn't been seen since. However, their 2-year-old daughter, Crystal L. Robertson, who was with the couple, mysteriously turned up in the parking lot of a Spanaway store a few days later."

So it was Lloyd Riemer (Mike's father) who notified the authorities that they were missing. So obviously Riemer had to tell his father where he was going and what he would be doing, if he planned on killing Diana why tell his father anything? This also shows that Riemer's father reported him missing, so it seems unlikely that one of his family members would be helping him hide out or escape and still not come forward. If these articles are accurate, then they makes the case for Riemer as innocent that much more strong. If Crystal was dropped off a day or even days after the couple went missing, what was Riemer doing that whole time with Crystal? Living in the woods with her? If she was found days after, maybe a random samaritan did happen upon Crystal in the woods and then dropped her off. It would account for her "dazed" state at the store.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:29 PM   #130
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Now I re-watched the UM segment and it says Crystal was found outside the K-mart in the afternoon of the same day that Riemer and Diana went on their trip. Almost every article that has been posted on here from the Seattle Times either says Crystal was found outside the store at around 8:30 the night of Riemer and Diana's trip, while others say she turned up there days after. I wonder which account is true. If she really was found at 8:30 that night or later it seems to cast some doubt on the Riemer is guilty theory, IMO.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:39 AM   #131
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Riemer's body not being found yet really means nothing. Look at Arnold Archambeau and Ruby Bruguier, their bodies were found in a ditch that was extensively searched beforehand and police seemed to have missed them on their initial search. We really don't know how extensive their searches went for Riemer. It took two months to find Ruth Cooper's body, which was only a mile away from the murder site of Stephen Harkins. I think it's entirely possible that his body is still out in those woods, yet to be discovered.

As for someone sparing Crystal's life, we really can't rationalize what a serial killer would do. Obviously if this is an unknown assailant, he's out picking off couples at random for his sick purposes. So if he's capable of doing that, why is it so far fetched that he/she/they would spare the 2 year old? Perhaps this person did not know the prescence of Crystal when Riemer and Diana were murdered. We simply do not know. I know I've said it before, but I don't see why Riemer would drive out of the woods and go thirty miles just to go back to the woods and leave his truck. And if we are to assume that Diana was killed where she was found, what was the guarantee that he would be able to find Diana's body? And if Diana was moved from where she was killed, why take her body out of the truck just to leave it lying on the ground a few feet away. This would further implicate Riemer to leave Diana's body right in front of his abandoned truck. If Riemer planned this he certainly (being a trapper and with his extensive knowledge of the wilderness) could have hidden Diana's body and his truck in a better location. Everything would point to him being the killer by leaving his truck, Diana's body, the note, and Crystal alive. Something a cunning killer who was trying to start a new life would not have done.
Actually we do know how big of search there was for Mike's body. In one article his father talks about organizing search parties and in one case they had 50 people out searching in one day. Also with Mike being the son of the retired game warden you better beileve LE in the area was going all out to help Lyoyd find his son.
Again I dont think Mike planned this. I think there may have been an arguement that lead to the stabbing. It doesnt seem premeditated in any way to me.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:33 AM   #132
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Now I re-watched the UM segment and it says Crystal was found outside the K-mart in the afternoon of the same day that Riemer and Diana went on their trip. Almost every article that has been posted on here from the Seattle Times either says Crystal was found outside the store at around 8:30 the night of Riemer and Diana's trip, while others say she turned up there days after. I wonder which account is true. If she really was found at 8:30 that night or later it seems to cast some doubt on the Riemer is guilty theory, IMO.
Actually, that works better for Riemer, as that would explain (it being 8:30pm) how no one saw anybody dropping off the little girl.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:58 AM   #133
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Actually, that works better for Riemer, as that would explain (it being 8:30pm) how no one saw anybody dropping off the little girl.
But he had to go back in the wilderness to drop his truck off by Diana's body. Doing that after nine o'clock at night in the winter time is one hell of a feat if you ask me.
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:41 PM   #134
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Well in the segment they said she was found in the afternoon and in the re-enactment it was broad daylight. It would not be daylight at 830pm in December. Also whoever dropped her off there drove 30 miles from where Diana was found to do so. I wonder why they drove so far when there where plenty of populated areas near where the body was found she could have been left. Why would a killer risk having the child with him that long???
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:00 PM   #135
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But he had to go back in the wilderness to drop his truck off by Diana's body. Doing that after nine o'clock at night in the winter time is one hell of a feat if you ask me.
He could have done that anywhere from a few hours to several days (or more) from when the little girl was found. There's been nothing shown determining when Diana was brought to where she was found and when the truck was left there.

In fact, that time gap could have been all of the time Riemer might need to gather what he would need to go out in the woods or dispose of any evidence linking him to the crime. Since it's never made clear where Riemer was living, he could have even gone back there and stayed until they found the little girl and then left the area.

Or...if Riemer was seeing another woman at the same time, he could have stayed at her place for a few days and then left when the news announced that the little girl was found.
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Website: www.unsolved.com

Contact form on official Unsolved Mysteries site

Please note that their old mailing address and 1-800 phone number no longer work.


2) Where can I watch Unsolved Mysteries?

Unsolved Mysteries is available for streaming on Amazon Instant Video, YouTube and Hulu.


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