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Old 02-08-2011, 01:35 PM   #271
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[QUOTE=TheCars1986]
Quote:
It would be easier for Crystal to say "Daddy left me" as opposed to someone she did not know at all. And if she did in fact witness an unknown person murder her mother this could account for her "stunned" state. The fact that she wasn't crying and carrying on at the store seems to indicate she was dropped off by someone other than her parents.
Would it be easier? I just don't think we can possibly know that. I would think a child would be just as upset being dropped off somewhere by a stranger as they would being dropped of by a parent. I just don't think we can make anything out of it.

Quote:
They would have matched striations on the bullets to the gun regardless of how long the time elapsed
.
There are obvioulsy many guns that are identical. If the striations match one of Riemer's guns then there would be thousands of other guns that could match it also. Look at the Tom Young/Keith Reinhard case, ballistics could not even prove the gun found next to Tom Young was the gun that killed him. Was there even any testing done?? I have never heard either way.



Quote:
I'm just saying that if Riemer is innocent or guilty, whomever killed Stephen, Ruth, and Diana changed his method from shooting to stabbing. And we don't know how many times Ruth Cooper was shot, so that could have appeared to be a crime of passion as well. Like I've said before, if a third party killed both couples, he had ample time to concoct a plan to go back and hide Riemer's body. Imagine if he was a local, and he heard murmurs from the townspeople that Riemer probably got in a jealous fit of rage and killed Diana...it would provide the perfect time to, in essence, frame Riemer
.
I really don't think a 3rd party had ample time to go back and move bodies around. There was a search by land and air the next day so how could he have been out there moving things around without being seen? Why would the killer want to frame Riemer? The guy was leaving a calling card (the tube sock) on his victims. It seems he wanted people to know it was the same person killing them.



Quote:
It very well could be some psycho who was unknown to both couples, who just so happens to target couples as his victims. Riemer wouldn't have been able to cover up the fact that he took supplies, clothing, gear, etc. with him for it would have been missing from his residence. There seems to be no indication that Riemer took anything other than what was taken on the day of their fateful trip. So what does that tell you? He's most likely dead
.
I do agree that there is a good chance the killer was a psycho unknown to both couples. But I don't agree that Riemer wouldnt have been able to cover up taking supplies. Think about it, unless someone did an inventory of everything he owned before and after his dissapearance then how would anyone know? Maybe there is indication things where missing and maybe that would explain why (as stated in the episode) some police beileve he was the killer.


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We really don't know what other victims could be attributed to a serial killer, if a third party was responsible. It's not that unlikely that Riemer removed his coat while checking his traps, there really would be no other reason for him to leave the coat behind if he did indeed kill Diana. As a way to throw off authorities? No way. The note, "I LOVE YOU DIANA" would implicate him more than a coat missing would cast suspicioun away IMHO
.
His traps where not close to where the truck and Diane where found as stated in one of the interviews with his father. I do think leaving the coat behind would indicate that he didnt hike out of the forrest. Notice its the only piece of evidence his father gives to claim that Mike couldnt have been involved. This could have been exactly what Mike wanted people to think.
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:56 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by kane7474
Would it be easier? I just don't think we can possibly know that. I would think a child would be just as upset being dropped off somewhere by a stranger as they would being dropped of by a parent. I just don't think we can make anything out of it.
There's no doubt the child would be more upset at being left by her father as opposed to a complete stranger. Usually children will either clam up or become extremely agitated when left alone with strangers. The fact that the workers at the K-Mart store described her as "stunned" and "silent" lead me to believe she was driven there and dropped off by someone other than Riemer.

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Originally Posted by kane7474
I really don't think a 3rd party had ample time to go back and move bodies around. There was a search by land and air the next day so how could he have been out there moving things around without being seen? Why would the killer want to frame Riemer? The guy was leaving a calling card (the tube sock) on his victims. It seems he wanted people to know it was the same person killing them.
He would have had ample time after the searches were called off. And if he was a local person, the more time that passed the more I'm sure local gossip started getting spread around town about what happened to Riemer and Diana. There were probably murmurs of Riemer killing Diana in a jealous rage, just as likely as there were rumors about them both being murdered (based off of the amount of dead bodies being found in the area). Only speculating here, but if this person started to get worried that if both bodies were found and the investigation would then lead back to him, he may have come up with an idea to hide or bury Riemer's body. He had up to two months, if not longer than that, depending on where Riemer was actually killed (if at all).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kane7474
I do agree that there is a good chance the killer was a psycho unknown to both couples. But I don't agree that Riemer wouldnt have been able to cover up taking supplies. Think about it, unless someone did an inventory of everything he owned before and after his dissapearance then how would anyone know? Maybe there is indication things where missing and maybe that would explain why (as stated in the episode) some police beileve he was the killer.
I'm sure the local LE has looked into hundreds if not thousands of disappearances in that area. There would have been signs that Riemer packed some things and left (tooth brush, clothes, luggage, etc.). Not to mention the UM segment stated Riemer could be "living off the land". That would require some form of camping gear. And if there was evidence that some of his posessions were missing, there's no doubt in my mind that a warrant would have been issued for his arrest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kane7474
His traps where not close to where the truck and Diane where found as stated in one of the interviews with his father. I do think leaving the coat behind would indicate that he didnt hike out of the forrest. Notice its the only piece of evidence his father gives to claim that Mike couldnt have been involved. This could have been exactly what Mike wanted people to think.
Here's my take on the coat. Let's assume Riemer was the killer of Diana for a second. So he leaves his coat behind to throw off authorities, so they can think someone else killed Diana and he's elsewhere. Why leave the note "I LOVE YOU DIANA" so prominently in the dashboard of his truck? That would seem to implicate him more than leaving his jacket behind would clear him.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:49 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by TheCars1986
There's no doubt the child would be more upset at being left by her father as opposed to a complete stranger. Usually children will either clam up or become extremely agitated when left alone with strangers. The fact that the workers at the K-Mart store described her as "stunned" and "silent" lead me to believe she was driven there and dropped off by someone other than Riemer.



He would have had ample time after the searches were called off. And if he was a local person, the more time that passed the more I'm sure local gossip started getting spread around town about what happened to Riemer and Diana. There were probably murmurs of Riemer killing Diana in a jealous rage, just as likely as there were rumors about them both being murdered (based off of the amount of dead bodies being found in the area). Only speculating here, but if this person started to get worried that if both bodies were found and the investigation would then lead back to him, he may have come up with an idea to hide or bury Riemer's body. He had up to two months, if not longer than that, depending on where Riemer was actually killed (if at all).



I'm sure the local LE has looked into hundreds if not thousands of disappearances in that area. There would have been signs that Riemer packed some things and left (tooth brush, clothes, luggage, etc.). Not to mention the UM segment stated Riemer could be "living off the land". That would require some form of camping gear. And if there was evidence that some of his posessions were missing, there's no doubt in my mind that a warrant would have been issued for his arrest.



Here's my take on the coat. Let's assume Riemer was the killer of Diana for a second. So he leaves his coat behind to throw off authorities, so they can think someone else killed Diana and he's elsewhere. Why leave the note "I LOVE YOU DIANA" so prominently in the dashboard of his truck? That would seem to implicate him more than leaving his jacket behind would clear him.
Ive never thought the note really showed us anything. It could have contained an apology letter he wrote her months before. Its possible it was just loose in the truck and one of them stuck it there on the way out. Who knows. It makes no sense for Riemer to write that and leave it for the person he just killed. Nor would it make any sense for a 3rd party killer to stage it there. Would the third party killer even know Diane's name?

Ive been researching serial killers in the Tacoma/Spokane area the last few days and I really can't seem to come up with anything that fits the pattern of any known killer here. Robert Yates is reported to have shot and killed a couple in the woods while he was out target practicing. It happened, I beileve in 1975. He wasn't picked up until sometime in the 1990s. After that first killing he seemed to stick to prostitues though. So he could be a possibility here
At any rate the serial killers in the area seemed to use the wooded areas as a dumping site and not as a place to hunt and kill victims. In fact I can't find another case where people where killed in this fashion except for the Yates killing in 75.
What you have to consider here is that you have a serial killer out prowling in remote wooded areas. How is he getting in? How is he getting out? Is he driving and parking somewhere or just hiking? We do know one man that was running trap lines not far from where Cooper and Hawkins where killed. That same man was with Diane before she was killed. That man has never been seen again and his name, ofcourse is Mike Riemer.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:56 PM   #274
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There is no Tacoma/Spokane area. They're each on the extreme opposite ends of the state, Spokane on the east and Tacoma on the west. The concentrations of serial killings in Washingston during the 1970s and 1980s were mainly confined to the western portion of the state, in and around the greater Seattle area (which would include Tacoma, which lies to the north of that city).
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:04 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
There is no Tacoma/Spokane area. They're each on the extreme opposite ends of the state, Spokane on the east and Tacoma on the west. The concentrations of serial killings in Washingston during the 1970s and 1980s were mainly confined to the western portion of the state, in and around the greater Seattle area (which would include Tacoma, which lies to the north of that city).
Actually, Tacoma is SOUTH of Seattle.
Southwest, to be precise.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:08 PM   #276
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Actually, Tacoma is SOUTH of Seattle.
Southwest, to be precise.
My mistake. My mind was doing one thing and my typing fingers another.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:34 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by cocytus
Actually, Tacoma is SOUTH of Seattle.
Southwest, to be precise.
I had actually meant the Tacoma/Seattle area. Thank god we have posters on here with nothing better to do then point out typos and still be incorrect in doing so. lol
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:01 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kane7474
What you have to consider here is that you have a serial killer out prowling in remote wooded areas. How is he getting in? How is he getting out? Is he driving and parking somewhere or just hiking? We do know one man that was running trap lines not far from where Cooper and Hawkins where killed. That same man was with Diane before she was killed. That man has never been seen again and his name, ofcourse is Mike Riemer.
Why is it so hard to believe than an unknown third party happened to slip through the cracks, yet it is so easy for Riemer to have simply walked away and started a new life? We know how Riemer got into the woods. What we don't know is how he got out (if at all), since his truck was found abandoned. And who's to say this serial killer wasn't apprehended for another crime shortly after (a la The Zodiac) and then the killings simply stopped? What if Harkins and Cooper were his first victims? All we can do is speculate on and on.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:13 AM   #279
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Why is it so hard to believe than an unknown third party happened to slip through the cracks, yet it is so easy for Riemer to have simply walked away and started a new life? We know how Riemer got into the woods. What we don't know is how he got out (if at all), since his truck was found abandoned. And who's to say this serial killer wasn't apprehended for another crime shortly after (a la The Zodiac) and then the killings simply stopped? What if Harkins and Cooper were his first victims? All we can do is speculate on and on.
Its really not hard to beileve that a third party killer slipped through the cracks. That is a theory that is very possible. What Im saying is that it seems odd that a serial killer is out in the middle of nowhere looking for victims. Think about it, Mike,Diane and Crystal are in the woods on a saturday afternoon and this killer has just up and decided to go hang out in that area and wait on victims?? This wasnt a well traveled area ( especially in the month of december) so it woudnt be likely for the killer to find victims where he was hanging out. I mean you gotta figure that the killer went out in the freezing cold and just waited for a random victim in the middle of a secluded area. It just seems unlikey to me.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:43 PM   #280
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Quote:
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Its really not hard to beileve that a third party killer slipped through the cracks. That is a theory that is very possible. What Im saying is that it seems odd that a serial killer is out in the middle of nowhere looking for victims. Think about it, Mike,Diane and Crystal are in the woods on a saturday afternoon and this killer has just up and decided to go hang out in that area and wait on victims?? This wasnt a well traveled area ( especially in the month of december) so it woudnt be likely for the killer to find victims where he was hanging out. I mean you gotta figure that the killer went out in the freezing cold and just waited for a random victim in the middle of a secluded area. It just seems unlikey to me.
According to the UM segment, "The couple drove up into the forest south of Tacoma, a scenic region often frequented by campers and nature lovers." That would fit with Cooper and Hawkins (campers) and Riemer being a nature lover as the perfect "targets" for a serial killer stalking the area.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:57 PM   #281
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According to the UM segment, "The couple drove up into the forest south of Tacoma, a scenic region often frequented by campers and nature lovers." That would fit with Cooper and Hawkins (campers) and Riemer being a nature lover as the perfect "targets" for a serial killer stalking the area.
True but we are talking about middle of December here. Are there alot of hikers and nature lovers setting out in the dead of winter? I don't know. Keep in mind that the area the truck was found in was so remote that it wasnt seen by air or land searches and took nearly three months for someone to stumble upon it.
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Old 02-12-2011, 11:44 AM   #282
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True but we are talking about middle of December here. Are there alot of hikers and nature lovers setting out in the dead of winter? I don't know. Keep in mind that the area the truck was found in was so remote that it wasnt seen by air or land searches and took nearly three months for someone to stumble upon it.
The location of the truck, IMO, suggests someone moved it there after Diana's murder. So Riemer, Diana, and Crystal could have been in a completely different area altogether. There are countless different reasons why a serial killer would be lurking out in that area in the dead of winter. Maybe he was a fellow trapper or nature lover? It seems logical that this area was a popular spot to look for Christmas trees, maybe this killer knew that people would be in that area regardless of the season?
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:29 AM   #283
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The location of the truck, IMO, suggests someone moved it there after Diana's murder. So Riemer, Diana, and Crystal could have been in a completely different area altogether. There are countless different reasons why a serial killer would be lurking out in that area in the dead of winter. Maybe he was a fellow trapper or nature lover? It seems logical that this area was a popular spot to look for Christmas trees, maybe this killer knew that people would be in that area regardless of the season?
But again, your line of reasoning presupposes that:

1) Serial killer would be able to remain unnoticed in the woods for the hours (or days) necessary for a victim (or victims) to arrive in a particular area. There are probably many hunters, hikers, loggers, rangers,etc that would have noticed a strange person in the area. And rangers would be armed and have ample reason to question such a stranger.

2) That this same killer would kill strangers and then make all of the arrangements that this one seems to have made for no clear-cut reasons. Why move Diana (if she was moved), why conceal Riemer (if that's what happened) and why even bother w/ Crystal?

3) Why wouldn't this killer have continued his "spree" given the fact that Diana's body was only found by accident and Riemer's body was never found? The killer would have been correct in assuming that he/she could continue to kill unmolested w/ little chance of being caught.

4) Unless the this killer was highly trained at criminology and forensics , how was it possible that they were able to kill Diana (and possibly Riemer) and leave no serious clues as to his/her identity? Especially since the killer apparently moved the truck and Diana's body from where he might have killed her?

While I think that a "third party killer" is always a possibility, the level of effort put into "hiding" Diana and the truck, saving Crystal and possibly "disposing" of Riemer indicates (at least to me) a killer w/ a personal stake in this. That's part of the reasons that I suspect that this is the work of Mike Riemer.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:32 PM   #284
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But again, your line of reasoning presupposes that:

1) Serial killer would be able to remain unnoticed in the woods for the hours (or days) necessary for a victim (or victims) to arrive in a particular area. There are probably many hunters, hikers, loggers, rangers,etc that would have noticed a strange person in the area. And rangers would be armed and have ample reason to question such a stranger.

2) That this same killer would kill strangers and then make all of the arrangements that this one seems to have made for no clear-cut reasons. Why move Diana (if she was moved), why conceal Riemer (if that's what happened) and why even bother w/ Crystal?

3) Why wouldn't this killer have continued his "spree" given the fact that Diana's body was only found by accident and Riemer's body was never found? The killer would have been correct in assuming that he/she could continue to kill unmolested w/ little chance of being caught.

4) Unless the this killer was highly trained at criminology and forensics , how was it possible that they were able to kill Diana (and possibly Riemer) and leave no serious clues as to his/her identity? Especially since the killer apparently moved the truck and Diana's body from where he might have killed her?

While I think that a "third party killer" is always a possibility, the level of effort put into "hiding" Diana and the truck, saving Crystal and possibly "disposing" of Riemer indicates (at least to me) a killer w/ a personal stake in this. That's part of the reasons that I suspect that this is the work of Mike Riemer.
1. Not if this guy was a local who was a fellow hunter, hiker, nature lover, etc. In a scenic area it's almost commonplace to see strangers due to the high volume of tourists.

2. Well it's been speculated before that someone who knew both Diana and Riemer could have been responsible. That would account for how he knew where they would be, and also why Crystal was spared.

3. Perhaps he did. There are several unsolved homicides in the Washington state area, there's simply no way to knowing if a third party continued killing and if so what killings can be attributed to them.

4. Perhaps he did. There was the note left on the dash (that really could mean absolutely nothing), blood in the truck that was only determined to be human, and several rifle casings in the area.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:49 PM   #285
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I recently noticed something that is another telling piece of evidence that I beileve points at Mike Riemer.

In looking at a google map I noticed that Spanway is around 33 miles from where Diane and the truck where found. I also noticed that not only is Spanway on the direct route back to Pallyup ( where Riemer lived) but its only 12 miles from there. Now here's the burning question for me. Why would a serial killer drive 33 miles north to Spanway to deposit Crystal??
If you follow the map it appears whoever had Crystal followed 7 hwy and could have very easily been depositing her on the way back to Pallyup.

For anyone who thinks that a serial killer native to the area where Diane was found did this, you must ask why he would drive 33 miles north to drop off crystal. Is it just coincidence that she was left not far from home??
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