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Old 01-11-2011, 11:07 AM   #181
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I will have to watch again but I never remember them saying the knots where tied the same. Like I said it could be, but really how many differnet knots could you tie a tube sock in around someones neck?
The epsiode does clearly state though that Crystal was found the same day that she and her parents had went into the woods to get a tree and check trap lines. It is at the very beginning.
I did say that UM stated it was the same day as their trip. But that seems to be the only source that says it was the same day, all others say later that night or the day after and there is one that says a couple of days later. And those quotes about the knot from UM were exact. There are certain distinct ways someone would tie a rope, and I'm assuming that the authorities never saw that type of knot used on a sock.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:38 AM   #182
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I will have to watch again but I never remember them saying the knots where tied the same. Like I said it could be, but really how many differnet knots could you tie a tube sock in around someones neck?
The epsiode does clearly state though that Crystal was found the same day that she and her parents had went into the woods to get a tree and check trap lines. It is at the very beginning.
There are myriad ways to tie knots. Here are a few examples:
http://www.martingautron.com/blog/tag/knots/
The knot's style seems to be part of the LE "holdback" as it isn't mentioned on the segment nor anywhere I can find.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:03 PM   #183
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There are myriad ways to tie knots. Here are a few examples:
http://www.martingautron.com/blog/tag/knots/
The knot's style seems to be part of the LE "holdback" as it isn't mentioned on the segment nor anywhere I can find.
I totally understand there are tons of different knots but what Im saying is how many different ones could you use to tie something as thick as a tube sock around a neck?
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:07 PM   #184
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There is ofcourse a chance that a serial killer (that was not Mike) killed all of these people. There where several at work in this general area around the same time frame. I wonder what anyone thinks about Yates? I read where his first killing was a young couple he came upon while target practicing in a wooded area. He shot both of them in much the same style that Ruth Cooper and Steve Hawkins where shot. Yates started killing in 1978 and I dont think he was picked up till late 90s.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:28 PM   #185
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There are myriad ways to tie knots. Here are a few examples:
http://www.martingautron.com/blog/tag/knots/
The knot's style seems to be part of the LE "holdback" as it isn't mentioned on the segment nor anywhere I can find.
This case is kind of similiar to Robert Fisher (the guy who in all probability murdered his wife and two kids and then set off an explosion in his house to cover up the crime), yet Fisher was at one point on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List and he was indicted for this crime. He still has never been found, the family truck was found abandoned, and there is no evidence indicating if he is still alive on the run or took his own life (and I don't think the UM segment ever even mentioned the possibility of his innocence). But he's wanted for the murders, whereas Riemer is still classified as missing. That's why I tend to believe the authorities have more evidence suggesting a third party being responsible.

I'm started to lean more and more to the fact that someone who knew Diana and/or Riemer was responsible for their murders. If it was a friend or acquaintance it could also account for the reason why Crystal was spared. And if this was some guy who had a crush on Diana it could also explain the love note left on the dash. Perhaps this person also knew Harkins and Cooper. Possible motives could be Riemer (who by all accounts had a hot temper) may have had an altercation with the killer. Or if this killer had a crush on Diana, maybe the fact that she took Riemer back set him off.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:55 PM   #186
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There is of course a chance that a serial killer (that was not Mike) killed all of these people.
This could have happened. Maybe Mike and Diane were Christmas tree hunting around the same area that a killer was lurking and were murdered by him. Everything else in their relationship (spousal abuse, restraining order, separation, etc..) is just a coincidence if it did happen this way.
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:34 PM   #187
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This case is kind of similiar to Robert Fisher (the guy who in all probability murdered his wife and two kids and then set off an explosion in his house to cover up the crime), yet Fisher was at one point on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted List and he was indicted for this crime. He still has never been found, the family truck was found abandoned, and there is no evidence indicating if he is still alive on the run or took his own life (and I don't think the UM segment ever even mentioned the possibility of his innocence). But he's wanted for the murders, whereas Riemer is still classified as missing. That's why I tend to believe the authorities have more evidence suggesting a third party being responsible.

I'm started to lean more and more to the fact that someone who knew Diana and/or Riemer was responsible for their murders. If it was a friend or acquaintance it could also account for the reason why Crystal was spared. And if this was some guy who had a crush on Diana it could also explain the love note left on the dash. Perhaps this person also knew Harkins and Cooper. Possible motives could be Riemer (who by all accounts had a hot temper) may have had an altercation with the killer. Or if this killer had a crush on Diana, maybe the fact that she took Riemer back set him off.
Im not sure on the fisher case but sounds alot like William Bradford Bishop. He is a suspect because the killiings obviously took place in his home. Then his car was found abandoned quite a distance from the bodies. The reason he is a suspect is because of the blood evidence at his house. He too is sought by FBI and has never turned up. The police in this segment state that Bishop got away because it was several days before anyone knew there had been a murder. In the Riemer case it was several months before anyone knew. Giving Mike much more time to get away. Also take into account Mike is not wanted by FBI.
I think it would be a wild stretch to say the killer knew both couples and for whatever reason decided to murder both and hide Mike's body while leaving the others out in the open
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:37 PM   #188
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This could have happened. Maybe Mike and Diane were Christmas tree hunting around the same area that a killer was lurking and were murdered by him. Everything else in their relationship (spousal abuse, restraining order, separation, etc..) is just a coincidence if it did happen this way.
As with everything in this case one answer leads to another question. If indeed it was the work of a serial killer then why conceal Mike's body when he concealed no one else's?? Why drive Crystal 30 miles away? Also consider Mike had guns and other weapons, the killer stabbed Diana so what would keep Mike from shooting him or putting up a fight??
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Old 01-11-2011, 02:45 PM   #189
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As with everything in this case one answer leads to another question. If indeed it was the work of a serial killer then why conceal Mike's body when he concealed no one else's?? Why drive Crystal 30 miles away? Also consider Mike had guns and other weapons, the killer stabbed Diana so what would keep Mike from shooting him or putting up a fight??
Here's another question: Assuming that this was the work of a third party serial killer, then you also have to wonder: Why would a killer attack a man that was clearly armed like Mike Riemer? The killer would have had to have watched them for at least few minutes and noticed that Riemer was checking traps. That means he would have had a weapon or weapons on him.

Wouldn't there have been easier targets than Riemer and Diana? I've never heard of too many serial killers (outside of television, that is) that would attack an armed opponent. Almost all serial killers are either cowardly (or practical) and attacking an armed opponent would entail too much risk.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:45 PM   #190
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Here's another question: Assuming that this was the work of a third party serial killer, then you also have to wonder: Why would a killer attack a man that was clearly armed like Mike Riemer? The killer would have had to have watched them for at least few minutes and noticed that Riemer was checking traps. That means he would have had a weapon or weapons on him.

Wouldn't there have been easier targets than Riemer and Diana? I've never heard of too many serial killers (outside of television, that is) that would attack an armed opponent. Almost all serial killers are either cowardly (or practical) and attacking an armed opponent would entail too much risk.
This is true. The only way I can see this happening is if the killer shot him at a distance, sniper style. Then maybe he pursued and stabbed Diana. But you still have the fact that he would have had to go to alot of effort to conceal Mike's body.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:48 PM   #191
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This is true. The only way I can see this happening is if the killer shot him at a distance, sniper style. Then maybe he pursued and stabbed Diana. But you still have the fact that he would have had to go to alot of effort to conceal Mike's body.
There's another police "holdback": At what distance were the other two victims shot at? If they were shot up close, then Riemer likely would have been also. If that was the case, where's the crime scene? Or evidence of a shooting (other than the casings) around where the truck was found?
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:34 PM   #192
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There's another police "holdback": At what distance were the other two victims shot at? If they were shot up close, then Riemer likely would have been also. If that was the case, where's the crime scene? Or evidence of a shooting (other than the casings) around where the truck was found?
I know I'm stretching it a bit here, but what if Riemer and Diana were killed elsewhere and their bodies were brought back to the site where Diana was found (this would be after Crystal was dropped off), but Riemer was somehow still alive and attempted to flee and was either shot again or ultimately succumbed to his initial wounds? It could explain blood in the truck and the fact that Riemer's coat was left behind. If this person knew Riemer or Diana it really wouldn't be that hard to approach him and shoot him. There would be no surprise needed really. And as for concealing Riemer's body, look how long it took someone to find Diana's body. Even an aerial view didn't reveal the truck, so how unlikely is it that Riemer's body was left out in the open and just never found?
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:04 PM   #193
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I know I'm stretching it a bit here, but what if Riemer and Diana were killed elsewhere and their bodies were brought back to the site where Diana was found (this would be after Crystal was dropped off), but Riemer was somehow still alive and attempted to flee and was either shot again or ultimately succumbed to his initial wounds? It could explain blood in the truck and the fact that Riemer's coat was left behind. If this person knew Riemer or Diana it really wouldn't be that hard to approach him and shoot him. There would be no surprise needed really. And as for concealing Riemer's body, look how long it took someone to find Diana's body. Even an aerial view didn't reveal the truck, so how unlikely is it that Riemer's body was left out in the open and just never found?
I don't think that's a stretch at all. Alot of cases feature a crime scene in one location and the bodies are located in another location. Its not uncommon.

Also, has anyone given thought to the idea that maybe Mike's body was eaten by animals? Given the fact that it took a while to locate Diana's body, its possible that Mike's was right there with her but animals ate him before his body was located. Just a thought.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:24 PM   #194
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I don't think that's a stretch at all. Alot of cases feature a crime scene in one location and the bodies are located in another location. Its not uncommon.

Also, has anyone given thought to the idea that maybe Mike's body was eaten by animals? Given the fact that it took a while to locate Diana's body, its possible that Mike's was right there with her but animals ate him before his body was located. Just a thought.
The only problem that I have w/ animals consuming his body is that animals usually avoid predating upon clothed bodies. They'll consume exposed "fleshy" areas but one of the primary reasons that bodies are found in rural/wooded areas at all is that they are dumped fully clothed.

Riemer would still be there...somewhere close, if he was killed. While the first search (the one that discovered the first victim) before Riemer's disappearance obviously wasn't thorough, I believe that the search for Riemer after they found Diana likely was.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:30 PM   #195
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I don't think that's a stretch at all. Alot of cases feature a crime scene in one location and the bodies are located in another location. Its not uncommon.

Also, has anyone given thought to the idea that maybe Mike's body was eaten by animals? Given the fact that it took a while to locate Diana's body, its possible that Mike's was right there with her but animals ate him before his body was located. Just a thought.
I've always thought the amount of time it took to find Diana gave Riemer's body (if he was a victim) plenty of time to decompose and be eaten/moved by animals.
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