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Old 12-25-2017, 03:00 AM   #121
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Clinton conspiracy theories are in their own category of bonkers. It's possible to believe, as I do, that as governor he likely covered up for menials while regarding CLINTON BODY COUNTS WHOA NELLY as sewage.
I know, right?

I simply cannot fathom how many people believe that Bill (a two-term former President and five-term governor) and Hillary (Presidential popular vote winner, Secretary of State, 2-term Senator and 2-term First Lady of the U.S.) have gone around, casually offing every person that knew them that died even a remotely unclear death, and ordering the assorted cover-ups that would have went along with it, a list that goes on to include essentially thousands of people. Far-fetched doesn't begin to describe it.

Actually, I thought Bill's reasons for not firing Fahmy Malak made sense: He felt he didn't have the appropriate medical knowledge to decide whether some of Fahmy's rulings were negligent or not. Bill was a law professor and a politician, not a doctor.
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:58 AM   #122
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Back on topic, I read the book about this case and felt like it was like the Scots Law verdict of 'Not Proven'. It got to be such a big and unwieldy story that the actual case seemed obscured. And after learning a few things after the medical reports were corrected, I don't think there has been any real movement on this case in 25+ years.

Maybe it could use a set of fresh eyes. Too many were sold on the drug angle.
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:35 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by unsolved1981
Back on topic, I read the book about this case and felt like it was like the Scots Law verdict of 'Not Proven'. It got to be such a big and unwieldy story that the actual case seemed obscured. And after learning a few things after the medical reports were corrected, I don't think there has been any real movement on this case in 25+ years.

Maybe it could use a set of fresh eyes. Too many were sold on the drug angle.
I think the biggest issue on this particular front is that from the very beginning the investigation was sullied by corrupt players in the local law enforcement community, not the least of which was Dan Harmon. I think this man alone may be the majority of the reason the case remains unsolved, as evidence is clear he worked to stifle, subvert, and suppress evidence and witnesses from the get-go, whether indirectly through agencies such as the Bryant Police Department, or directly through his office. He ran a brush over the footprints, so to speak, so there remain so many aspects of this case that may never be sufficiently substantiated.

By all accounts, the guy was a low-life piece of ****.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-8th-circuit/1161365.html

Add to that the individuals (especially women) of sordid reputation who came forward to testify to what they knew about his involvement in this case and others, and you can automatically create reasonable doubt. That's precisely what happened with Sharline Wilson--probably one of the most damaging witnesses to Harmon in this case--and I have to say I'm not sure I believe the entirety of her testimony myself. Just as you said, it makes for an extremely muddled case, especially after 30 years.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:04 PM   #124
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How the heck did I always miss the little tidbit about the other similar case in Oklahoma? I went back and re-read the posts in this thread and read the articles about the Oklahoma case, and this portion of one of them stood out:

Quote:
A month after the bodies of Hainline and Decker were discovered, a clandestine methamphetamine laboratory was discovered 1 1/2 miles north of the tracks.
Don't think that's much of a coincidence. Although I doubt that the Ives/Henry case has anything to do with Hainline/Decker, outside of drugs being the main motive behind their deaths and the train being used to try and erase any evidence.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:39 PM   #125
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Default Billy Jack Haynes claims he witnessed Ives & Henry murder

Over this past week there's been an update to this 30 year old murder mystery.

Carnage on ice (whose excellent documentary video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow0yPO8g9YA on the case is compulsive viewing) uploaded an update with parts of Billy Jack Haynes's testimony claiming he witnessed the murders of Kevin Ives and Don Henry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR_QZ694R18

And here's the news bulletin from KATV 7's February 15, 2018 broadcast:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntXFDkvGwes

Last edited by spectre; 05-08-2018 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:19 PM   #126
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A former pro wrestler claims to have witnessed their murders.
What do you think? Tell Tale Heart? Or a pattern of histrionics?https://www.fox16.com/news/local-new...acks/971948383
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:34 PM   #127
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A former pro wrestler claims to have witnessed their murders.
What do you think? Tell Tale Heart? Or a pattern of histrionics?https://www.fox16.com/news/local-new...acks/971948383
It would be really odd for Haynes to simply make all this up. The family seems to be behind him also.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:22 AM   #128
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This has been very quiet the last nine months or so, has William Jerk Haynes The Third crawled back under his rock?
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Old 12-01-2019, 03:03 AM   #129
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zjy8rita4

New interview was just uploaded with BJHaynes describing his role in the murders.
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Old 02-06-2020, 02:11 PM   #130
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zjy8rita4

New interview was just uploaded with BJHaynes describing his role in the murders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY2SRU9TO20

"Boys on the Tracks" Private Investigator on Billy Jack Haynes Involvement in his Double Homicide Investigation
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Old 02-08-2020, 09:04 PM   #131
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY2SRU9TO20

"Boys on the Tracks" Private Investigator on Billy Jack Haynes Involvement in his Double Homicide Investigation
I believe in one of his shoot interviews, Billy Jack claims to have testified in court (I don't recall the case or the reason he said he was called to testify) but had to do so under a mask. The mask he claimed to wear was one of his old wrestling gimmick masks (it may have been the Black Blood mask).

I found this to be both absurd and humorous. I can just picture Billy jack in court (he has a rather distinct voice) under a wrestling mask testifying. I bet old Billy Jack fooled everyone. Maybe Hercules Hernandez caught him a little too hard with that chain at Wrestlemania 3

In the interest of full disclosure, I was a Billy Jack Haynes fan in 1987. I wasn't a fan of his as much as I was Hogan, Steamboat, Flair, Savage, etc. but I was a BJH fan.
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Old 01-20-2021, 01:55 PM   #132
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I am seriously considering going deep down into the rabbit hole about this case, but I can't help but notice that the majority of the media surrounding it is conspiratorial nonsense trying to link this case to Bill Clinton and/or Arkansas politics. I don't believe that it was that high up of a conspiracy. If it was, the local sheriff wouldn't have been requesting help from the FBI back in 1988.
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:11 AM   #133
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Okay, so after I did a somewhat deep dive into this case for the past week, I can honestly say that I do not believe that the boys were murdered by a drug dealer for ripping them off, nor do I think the local prosecutor (who himself was involved in drug dealing) was involved. I think that the waters have been muddied for years solely for political reasons. I'll try my best to explain the tangled web, which was based off of the FBI files released after they looked into the murders back in the 90's.

The Sheriff at the time of the boy's deaths was a Democrat. Dan Harmon (the prosecutor) and his partner Richard Garrett (the guy interviewed in the segment) were both Democrats. For one, the Sheriff at the time, James Steed, requested the FBI's assistance with examining evidence from the crime scene. There is correspondence with Steed and the FBI back in 1987. In 1990, Steed came up for re-election, and the Republican challenger ran on the fact that he did not solve the murders nor do anything to crack down on the drug dealing going on in Saline County. Steed lost in a landslide. It's interesting that this seems to be the point when Dan Harmon and Richard Garrett's name began to be lumped into the murder conspiracy. IMO, it was political, and it only heated up more when Bill Clinton was elected President in 1992.

Many pages in the FBI files are heavily redacted, but there are some gems found in there. For one, the cocaine dealer, James Calloway, was named by several people as either being there at the tracks that night, or the one who orchestrated everything. The rumor was that Don and Kevin stole cocaine from Calloway's home that night and were planning on selling it. They were pursued by Calloway and 2 of his associates and were killed after they went to far "trying to scare them". James Calloway was arrested in 1989 for providing the weapons used in an armed robbery where a man was killed and there was considerable evidence that he was involved in drug dealing. Calloway's daughter was a classmate of Don Henry and childhood friend. Calloway lived on the same street as Don and his father and stepmother. The only problem? Calloway was divorcing from his wife and had moved out of the house months before the murders. And, from what I can glean from some of the redacted notes, it appears that Calloway did have an alibi for the night of the murders.

The Dan Harmon/Richard Garrett angle is ridiculous, IMO. For one, Don's father, Curtis Henry, was steadfast in his belief that they did everything they could to solve the case. Kevin's parents were on board with them but seemed to flip in 1990. Remember, Dr. Malak ruled that the deaths were accidental in 1987. Harmon and Garrett were the ones pushing to re-open the investigation and also had the bodies exhumed and re-autopsied. Does that sound like something that someone would do if they were responsible for the murders? It literally makes no sense. Despite Harmon's later legal troubles, there really was no credible evidence which could tie him, or Garrett, to the murders. IMO, Kevin's mother Linda was frustrated (as any parent would be) of the case being unsolved for years, which is why she kind of latched on to these "Clinton body count" types and also why she switched in her support of Harmon to outright accusing him of being involved.

I had an epiphany of sorts after rewatching the segment earlier this week. In the beginning, Stack says that the boys were hanging out at a parking lot, which was the popular hangout for the local teens. They stayed there until midnight. A friend of Don's saw him sitting in his driveway later that night and chatted with him and he said that nothing seemed off or amiss. At around 12:30 a.m., Don said he had to go (presumably to pick up Kevin) and that was the last confirmed person to have seen Don alive. Don's father on UM says that Don came in closer to midnight to tell him where he was going, but in articles and other interviews he says it was closer to 12:45 a.m. Don was armed with his .22 rifle. If they indeed stumbled on some sort of drug deal going down, why not either use their rifle for defense, or simply run away back to Don's house for help? The tracks were 300 yards away from Don's house. The more I thought about it the more I kept thinking that someone known to them had to have murdered them. Even Don's father has a quote in one of the articles about how Don would never let anyone get the drop on him and that he knew the area like the back of his hand. But if Don and Kevin were with someone they knew that night, that would explain everything IMO. Charles Beck Jr. was good friends with Don and said that the two of them went night hunting "all the time" together. Which would make you wonder, why didn't anyone else ever spot these elusive drug deals or drug drops in the years prior or since? What's interesting about Beck is that he said he was supposed to be hanging out with Don and Kevin on the night of the murders, but went to watch some stockcar races instead. But a 14 year old girl who was a friend of Beck's cousin told investigators (a year before the second autopsy which confirmed that Kevin's skull was crushed via blunt force) that Beck's cousin had told her that "two black guys threatened her cousin if they said anything about knocking the boys in the head and tying them to the tracks." Beck denied being with the boys or ever making the comment about the two black guys. When asked if he would take a polygraph to confirm his testimony to the grand jury, he refused. You can read more here.

IMO, the boys were murdered by someone they knew who accompanied them that night to go spot hunting. An argument ensued, and this person stabbed Don in the back before hitting Kevin in the head with Don's rifle. In a panic, he placed them on the track and left. I think people are focusing too much on the potential drug deal angles and not exploring other avenues.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:50 AM   #134
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I read here (scroll down until you get to 'The Possible Police Connection' heading) that the pair ran into some corrupt cops and they were the ones that, for whatever reason, beat them up and laid them out on the tracks. That (corrupt cops involved in drug dealing) seems like the most likely explanation to me, rather than anything conspiratorial.

(alot of the other stuff in this link is bunk IMO)

https://medium.com/the-true-crime-ed...y-f040ed97baf0
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:05 AM   #135
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I read here (scroll down until you get to 'The Possible Police Connection' heading) that the pair ran into some corrupt cops and they were the ones that, for whatever reason, beat them up and laid them out on the tracks. That (corrupt cops involved in drug dealing) seems like the most likely explanation to me, rather than anything conspiratorial.

(alot of the other stuff in this link is bunk IMO)

https://medium.com/the-true-crime-ed...y-f040ed97baf0
That article says that the officers were named. The FBI gave polygraphs (although the names were redacted) to several people who's names have been thrown around as potential suspects, and all of them passed. Not that polygraphs are the be all end all, but it's worth mentioning.
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