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Old 02-18-2021, 03:40 AM   #136
jets4life
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Zjy8rita4

New interview was just uploaded with BJHaynes describing his role in the murders.
Billy Jack Haynes is NOT a credible person, and sadly seems to be delusional.

For one thing, Haynes was under contract with WWF wrestling at the time, and was in the middle of a tour of various cities for the WWF. I believe he did a house show in Detroit a couple of days before the murder. It makes no sense that he would take a couple of days off to get involved in rural Arkansas, after touring major US cities for a full year.

Secondly, BJH is obviously not well mentally, and has make some of the most ridiculous claims ever. During the Chris Benoit murder-suicide was that Vince McMahon was the biological father of Benoit's son Daniel (which is false). BJH also claims Vince McMahon ordered one of his star wrestlers named Jimmy Snuka to kill his girlfriend, which makes absolutely no sense.

People who give credibility to BJH, should really google the man first. The man is not playing with a full deck of cards.
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Old 02-18-2021, 09:41 AM   #137
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Billy Jack Haynes is NOT a credible person, and sadly seems to be delusional.

For one thing, Haynes was under contract with WWF wrestling at the time, and was in the middle of a tour of various cities for the WWF. I believe he did a house show in Detroit a couple of days before the murder. It makes no sense that he would take a couple of days off to get involved in rural Arkansas, after touring major US cities for a full year.

Secondly, BJH is obviously not well mentally, and has make some of the most ridiculous claims ever. During the Chris Benoit murder-suicide was that Vince McMahon was the biological father of Benoit's son Daniel (which is false). BJH also claims Vince McMahon ordered one of his star wrestlers named Jimmy Snuka to kill his girlfriend, which makes absolutely no sense.

People who give credibility to BJH, should really google the man first. The man is not playing with a full deck of cards.

I believe if you read the other posts about ole' Billy Jack, you will see that nobody takes him seriously. i even joked the most credible part of his story was that he may have been near Bryant, Arkansas the night of August 23, 1987 given the WWF's road schedule then. He was in Detroit August 21 then is not shown on the schedule until August 25 in San Francisco. I don't think anybody seriously believes he is tied to the murders (I suppose it is possible but extremely far fetched). Remember, Billy Jack also claims he was called to testify in court under a mask. According to some sources, the mask he used was one of his gimmick masks used in his territorial days. From what I understand he was always a little "off" and could be difficult to deal with. His videos in the past 8-10 years have been very strange to say the least.
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Old 02-18-2021, 12:43 PM   #138
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I don't remember Billy Jack wearing a mask in Oregon, Florida, WCCW or JCP, which were the places he worked before WWF-he was a good looking babyface, so wearing a mask would have been totally illogical. The only time I recall him wearing a mask was in WCW in 1991 as Black Blood.
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Old 02-18-2021, 01:47 PM   #139
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I don't remember Billy Jack wearing a mask in Oregon, Florida, WCCW or JCP, which were the places he worked before WWF-he was a good looking babyface, so wearing a mask would have been totally illogical. The only time I recall him wearing a mask was in WCW in 1991 as Black Blood.
It may have been the Black Blood mask and I was wrong about it being in his territory days.
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Old 02-19-2021, 08:06 AM   #140
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It may have been the Black Blood mask and I was wrong about it being in his territory days.
I had misread it yesterday & thought he had given testimony that he wore a hood when doing the crime, either the UK cold weather getting to my brain or I am going
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Old 02-28-2021, 05:08 PM   #141
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First of all, I AM LOVING the deep dive I've done (for probably the 40th time in twelve years) on this case again since Robin released the two-part TTWC podcast on it. I even broke out The Boys on the Tracks off my bookshelf again and am almost finished with it.

First of all, Robin, awesome work on the show. This might be my favorite segment of all time for multiple reasons: it was the first one to have truly kept me awake all night. I identify with so many of the people involved, being from the south and hearing those familiar accents and just being able to feel stepping out of a mobile home to go tool around in the woods. I was once married to someone who worked for Norfolk Southern, so I know the train front. I guess it's eventually become more than just a story that's interested me. It's become almost mythical, with the story having grown as nebulous as it now is. I really appreciated how Robin really got back to the roots of the case rather than primarily pursuing the now-taken-for-granted 'Mena connection'.

During the past four years of the last presidential administration, the "fake news" phenomenon utterly exploded over social media and other corners of the internet, and that really got me thinking about this particular case--particularly when the Billy Jack Haynes story broke. I actually couldn't even really bring myself to participate in discussions about it at the time because I was so disappointed in the entire thing. I knew, without ever having listened to a thing he actually said but having a basic knowledge of pro wrestling and the sort of reputation Haynes has, that the dude was lying like a dog. Only about a week ago did I watch any of the interviews he gave, and the lies are so utterly bald-faced it's almost darkly comical. Haynes has never revealed a single piece of information about this case that isn't available to the public, and in relaying his "account" one can clearly sense Haynes working overtime to regurgitate every single fact he can remember reading or hearing about the case in an attempt to seem authentic. Indeed, this accomplishes quite the opposite. I suppose to me, this whole thing was a shameful act that only further convolutes and makes a mockery of the two questions so many of us have been asking for over three decades now: who killed Don Henry and Kevin Ives, and why? I didn't want to give it a single bit of oxygen.

Performative political acts that have occurred in recent years--whether committed by actual political officers and candidates, celebrities, or just regular joes on social media--really got me thinking about Dan Harmon. I do absolutely think that Dan Harmon has always known more than he has admitted about who may have been involved in the murders, as he was involved in trafficking in the area himself, but I have never been firm about whether he was directly involved in the event. My inclination is to say no. However, I haven't made up my mind as to whether he called the grand jury investigation for personal damage control (as another investigator could have made connections back to Harmon's involvement in the local drug trade), or as a stunt to further his political career. I personally sort of lean toward the former, as three years before he had led a grand jury investigation into some financial wrongdoing at Saline Memorial Hospital, and wild cocaine parties figured heavily into that case. As coke was apparently Harmon's drug of choice, it wouldn't have surprised me one bit to learn he may have helped supply these events, if even only in an indirect way. And everyone found guilty in that case got away with essentially a slap on the hand. Not even a single indictment resulted from the Ives/Henry grand jury, which would seem to me a perfectly devastating fact to emphasize if I were running against Harmon for office.

There's so much I want to say about this case, but I'll narrow it down to the handful of things that I think are incredibly important but have been utterly lost throughout the years and through the growth of the Mena narrative:

1. Don and Kevin did not spend the entire evening of August 22, 1987 together, parting ways at some point and then meeting up again later. We can't account for several hours' whereabouts or activities for either boy, and that's a huge missing piece of the puzzle.

2. EMT Shirley Raper's account of meeting three Black males on the tracks on a rough side road (which I think could be Linden Dr, based on a Google maps look at the rail crossing at Shobe and Brookwood in Bryant, the closest crossing to the location of the boys' bodies before they were impacted by the train), who claimed they were members of a volunteer fire department that flat-out did not exist.

3. Curtis Henry's personal friendships and associations with a few of the people who have been implicated by the Mena conspiracy advocates in this case, including Keith McKaskle and James Callaway. Over the years, I have gotten the sense that Don came from one side of the tracks (I promise this isn't some terrible pun), and Kevin came from the other. In fact, in Mara Leveritt's book, she describes Linda Ives being very reluctant to allow Kevin to spend the night with Don that evening because of some earlier incident in which Don and Curtis had gotten into an argument, Don left the house with Kevin, didn't come home the next morning (the two had gone to a third friend's house to stay the night), and Curtis had called Linda asking if Don was at their house. The implication seemed to be that Linda didn't feel as though Curtis provided adequate supervision, and on the morning of August 23, 1987 after Curtis had called asking if Linda had any information on the boys' whereabouts, Linda is described as thinking, That is the last time (Kevin) spends the night at that house.

I feel these suggestions around Curtis and his associations are sort of a ham-fisted attempt to make this 'but-for' argument: if the Henrys weren't so lax, perhaps "rough", and if the family didn't have connections to these "questionable" folks, then maybe Don and Kevin wouldn't have been murdered. I don't agree with it for one instant, but I do think it's between the lines of some of these theories.
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:54 AM   #142
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Not even a single indictment resulted from the Ives/Henry grand jury, which would seem to me a perfectly devastating fact to emphasize if I were running against Harmon for office.
First of all, great post.

Second, this is the biggest reason as to why I don't think Harmon was involved. Not only would it be completely idiotic to re-open an investigation that was already ruled a suicide if you were in fact involved in the murders, but it also did absolutely nothing for his political career. I think he seized on this case as a way to advance his political career, and failed. His being implicated, IMO, is also political.

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1. Don and Kevin did not spend the entire evening of August 22, 1987 together, parting ways at some point and then meeting up again later. We can't account for several hours' whereabouts or activities for either boy, and that's a huge missing piece of the puzzle.
From what I remember, the two were apart for approximately 30 minutes to an hour that night. It was after they had left the parking lot but before Don went home to tell his father he was going night hunting.

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2. EMT Shirley Raper's account of meeting three Black males on the tracks on a rough side road (which I think could be Linden Dr, based on a Google maps look at the rail crossing at Shobe and Brookwood in Bryant, the closest crossing to the location of the boys' bodies before they were impacted by the train), who claimed they were members of a volunteer fire department that flat-out did not exist.
In my semi-deep dive into this case a few weeks ago, I found this newspaper article, which mentions Shirley Raper's account of seeing the men (emphasis mine):

Quote:
In testimony Friday, Shirley Raper, a paramedic who responded to the scene in the early morning hours of Aug. 23, said she saw a pickup truck with three people inside in the general area of the tracks when she drove up. Garrett asked Ms. Raper why she never had mentioned the truck to county investigators and she said she never was interviewed by them. "No one asked me for anything 'til last week," she said. "I figured SO [the sheriff's office] was checking close...I had no reason to mention it." The men were identified Monday by Alexander Fire Chief Tommy Madison as volunteer firemen Gary Pulliman and Allen Smith, who were attempting to assist authorities.
Maybe it's in the book, but I can't find a single source in which Shirley Raper identifies the men in the pickup truck as black men. According to the article I linked, the men in the pickup truck were identified and where firefighters. Unless there was another pickup truck, I've always got the feeling that this was a giant red herring. I still contend that the boys were not alone when they went to the tracks, and that someone they knew murdered them and it had nothing to do with a massive coverup or conspiracy over drugs.
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Old 03-03-2021, 01:48 PM   #143
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First off, thanks for your kind words about the podcast episodes, MegtheEgg86. I want to clarify a few points about the three men in the pick-up truck. Here’s an excerpt from the “Boys on the Tracks” book, which confirms that yes, they were black…

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I can only assume that the information in the newspaper article TheCars1986 shared was inaccurate or that it was published before all the full facts came out. In actuality, the town of Alexander did not even have a fire department, which is why they figured out that the story those three men shared with Shirley Raper was a lie. Tommy Lee Madison (erroneously identified as the Alexander Fire Chief in that previous article) was called upon to testify as a witness in front of the grand jury, but he wound up being indicted on eight counts of distributing cocaine in an unrelated investigation. According to this newspaper article, he entered a guilty plea in July 1988 and received a 30-year prison sentence...

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Of course, that doesn’t necessarily prove that Madison was involved in the murders of Don and Kevin, but he was definitely was involved in drug dealing and I’m sure he had his own ulterior motives for lying to Raper. Here are some PDFs of documentation from the original Arkansas State Police investigation which contain more information about Madison, as well as Gary Pulliam and Allen Smith, the other two guys who were with him in the pick-up truck. In Madison’s defence, these documents state that he took a polygraph and when he denied any involvement in the crime, the results showed he was being truthful.

https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploa...March-1988.pdf

https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploa...April-1988.pdf

These PDF files also contain more documentation about the story from Sharon Liggans, who claimed she was told by the cousin of Charles Beck, one of Kevin and Don’s friends, that he had been threatened by a group of black guys on the night of the murders. However, she did state that Beck was threatened by two guys in a white pickup truck, whereas Madison says that the truck he, Pulliam and Smith drove that night was blue. IIRC, Sharon Liggans first shared this story with police months before Shirley Raper shared her own encounter with the black guys in the pickup truck during her grand jury testimony, so if these events are not connected, then it’s certainly an odd coincidence.

BTW, I’ll also mention that even though Mara Leveritt shared the story about Charles Beck and Sharon Liggans in an extensive article she wrote about the case in the Arkansas Times in 1992, there’s no mention of them at all in the “Boys on the Tracks” book, which was published in 1999. So it makes me wonder if she might have eventually discovered that this whole angle was a dead end.
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Old 03-03-2021, 03:32 PM   #144
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I can only assume that the information in the newspaper article TheCars1986 shared was inaccurate or that it was published before all the full facts came out. In actuality, the town of Alexander did not even have a fire department, which is why they figured out that the story those three men shared with Shirley Raper was a lie. Tommy Lee Madison (erroneously identified as the Alexander Fire Chief in that previous article) was called upon to testify as a witness in front of the grand jury, but he wound up being indicted on eight counts of distributing cocaine in an unrelated investigation. According to this newspaper article, he entered a guilty plea in July 1988 and received a 30-year prison sentence...
That's weird, because the article says that Raper first shared her story at the public hearing (which resulted in the re-opening of the case) on a Friday, and that Madison testified the next Monday about identifying the men in the truck. Other than lying about being a fire chief, it seems like these men legitimately arrived after the commotion, and were genuinely trying to help out.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:34 AM   #145
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3. Curtis Henry's personal friendships and associations with a few of the people who have been implicated by the Mena conspiracy advocates in this case, including Keith McKaskle and James Callaway. Over the years, I have gotten the sense that Don came from one side of the tracks (I promise this isn't some terrible pun), and Kevin came from the other. In fact, in Mara Leveritt's book, she describes Linda Ives being very reluctant to allow Kevin to spend the night with Don that evening because of some earlier incident in which Don and Curtis had gotten into an argument, Don left the house with Kevin, didn't come home the next morning (the two had gone to a third friend's house to stay the night), and Curtis had called Linda asking if Don was at their house. The implication seemed to be that Linda didn't feel as though Curtis provided adequate supervision, and on the morning of August 23, 1987 after Curtis had called asking if Linda had any information on the boys' whereabouts, Linda is described as thinking, That is the last time (Kevin) spends the night at that house.

I feel these suggestions around Curtis and his associations are sort of a ham-fisted attempt to make this 'but-for' argument: if the Henrys weren't so lax, perhaps "rough", and if the family didn't have connections to these "questionable" folks, then maybe Don and Kevin wouldn't have been murdered. I don't agree with it for one instant, but I do think it's between the lines of some of these theories.
For all the political/conspiracy innuendo that's been bandied about, if you wanted to apply Occam's Razor to this case, right here would be the logical place to start. It fits in well with TheCars1986's suggestion that the killer(s) were known to the boys and given the how the bodies were laid out, it makes sense (I wouldn't think a random killer or some hitman involved with drugs would take care to neatly arrange the bodies on the tracks and then bother to cover them with a tarp)
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:41 AM   #146
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I also find it odd that if the police (and Dan Harmon) were involved in drug dealing and the boys stumbled onto it and were murdered for it, they had their perfect scapegoats to pin the murders on...the 3 black men seen at the scene the next morning, one of which was also involved in (and convicted of) drug dealing.
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:48 AM   #147
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I also find it odd that if the police (and Dan Harmon) were involved in drug dealing and the boys stumbled onto it and were murdered for it, they had their perfect scapegoats to pin the murders on...the 3 black men seen at the scene the next morning, one of which was also involved in (and convicted of) drug dealing.
The fact that they didn't (or expended minimal effort in doing so) kind of underscores the notion they were political opportunists who weren't so much interested in investigating this properly as they were trying to score points to further their careers (or otherwise keep the heat off their seedy activities)
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Old 03-05-2021, 09:17 AM   #148
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The fact that they didn't (or expended minimal effort in doing so) kind of underscores the notion they were political opportunists who weren't so much interested in investigating this properly as they were trying to score points to further their careers (or otherwise keep the heat off their seedy activities)
This was the vibe I got from reading some of the files on Linda Ives' website. Seems like when it came time for an election, the opposing party would run on a platform that included "they didn't solve these murders, I will".
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Old 03-07-2021, 01:15 AM   #149
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...Charles Beck Jr. was good friends with Don and said that the two of them went night hunting "all the time" together. Which would make you wonder, why didn't anyone else ever spot these elusive drug deals or drug drops in the years prior or since? What's interesting about Beck is that he said he was supposed to be hanging out with Don and Kevin on the night of the murders, but went to watch some stockcar races instead. But a 14 year old girl who was a friend of Beck's cousin told investigators (a year before the second autopsy which confirmed that Kevin's skull was crushed via blunt force) that Beck's cousin had told her that "two black guys threatened her cousin if they said anything about knocking the boys in the head and tying them to the tracks." Beck denied being with the boys or ever making the comment about the two black guys. When asked if he would take a polygraph to confirm his testimony to the grand jury, he refused...IMO, the boys were murdered by someone they knew who accompanied them that night to go spot hunting. An argument ensued, and this person stabbed Don in the back before hitting Kevin in the head with Don's rifle. In a panic, he placed them on the track and left...
That’s an interesting possibilty, i.e., Charles Beck Jr, or someone else, Henry and Ives knew killed them🤔 From RobinW’s post (#143) Sharon Liggans is the “14 year old girl who was a friend of Beck’s cousin.”

The information in Lori Johnston’s article, “The Murders of Kevin Ives and Don Henry,” Huskerz87 links to is vaguely reminiscent of that reproduced elsewhere I’ve come across, possibly from the video, Murder on the Tracks: The Story of Kevin Ives and Don Henry, but I’ve read quite a lot about this case since it aired on Unsolved Mysteries over three decades now so the sources of all the bits of information are a blur now🤔🤷

Reviewing Johnston’s article I found interesting that:
1. Keith McKaskle, who allegedly informed on Dan Harmon, believed 2 unidentified police officers, who were suspects in the case, were following him.

2. Keith Coney was supposedly with Henry and Ives the night they died. He claimed the boys were approached by 2 police officers, but he escaped on his motorbike. He believed these 2 police officers killed them.

3. “Jerry” and “Ron” backed up Keith Coney’s testimony about 2 police officers assaulting the boys and throwing them into the back of their car.

4. The section on Fahmy Malak’s sheer ineptitude provides plausible reasons for the Clinton “conspiracy theories” that were possibly due to several people covering up for their own failures more than anything else.

5. An unnamed teenager who told Linda Ives in 1993 he was on the railroad tracks with some friends and hid in some bushes where he saw Henry and Ives killed by Dan Harmon. Although his testimony was discounted by police he allegedly passed two polygraphs and was subsequently enrolled in witness protection.

6. In 1993 Sharlene Wilson claimed Dan Harmon, Keith McCaskle and Larry Rochelle were responsible for the deaths of Henry and Ives. Her statement alleged one of the boys was stabbed with a knife and they were covered with a green tarp from her car.

7. The other similar deaths noted, i.e., Billy Don Hainline, 21, and Dennis Decker, 26, in Poteauin, Oklahoma; Sean Reineke, 15, and David Taylor, 13, in Joplin, Missouri; Norman Ladner, 17, in Picayune, Mississippi; all support possible connections to drug cartels.

So I came across a Reddit post a month back that linked to an article naming a possible suspect, or at the very least another person of interest, in the case:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMys...he_2_boys_don/

A clipping of the article if not viewable via the Reddit link can be seen here:
https://ibb.co/V3bk6dy

From that information about Paul William Criswell I came across this PDF that seemed to elaborate more about his drug dealings and possible knowledge and/or involvement in the deaths of Henry and Ives:
https://idfiles.com/wp-content/uploa...r-Memo-2.1.pdf
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:08 PM   #150
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This is a case I've often thought about throughout the years. I might get slaughtered for this, but I'm gonna go against general opinion and say this could very well have been an accident instead of a homicide that was covered up. Here's why:

The thing that seems to have initiated the murder conspiracy theory was the claim by the train crew that the boys were partly covered by a tarp. I really have trouble believing this. No tarp was found. If there had been a tarp, then it must've been shredded to pieces. It would've been impossible for cops to have recovered all those pieces in time before anyone could've seen them. This means that this was a cover-up with tons of people involved, even those that handled items from the crime scene afterwards. This seems highly unlikely to me. I don't think the crew purposely lied. It seems to me that they wanted to believe there was a tarp out of guilt that they didn't see them or stop the train in time.

Another thing is Malak's ruling that the boys smoked 20 joints that night. Just like everybody else I find that rather ridiculous. I don't know if it's sheer incompetence (the guy doesn't have the best reputation) or perhaps LE encouraged him to come up with a ruling that supported their accident theory because they just wanted speculation about murder to end. If he was part of a cover-up, wouldn't he have come up with a less suspicious amount, like 5 maybe? Since there was no evidence of a tarp, they could've easily sold the theory that the boys fell asleep on the tracks and the crew just didn't see them in time because of the darkness. That would've raised far less questions.

The only thing that seems to support the homicide theory is the second autopsy requested by the parents. But haven't we seen this before on the show? Parents have trouble accepting the initial ruling and find their own experts who just happen to confirm their suspicions? Now if a bullet had been found, no doubt it was murder. But a "stab wound" and crushed skull are the kind of injuries that very well could've been caused by the train running over them. Their bodies must've been so mangled, I'm not sure one can definitely say they were caused by one thing, but not another.

I just don't see a lot of evidence for homicide, let alone one that was covered up by LE. The proposed motive doesn't sit well with me either. A person supposedly happening upon a drug deal and getting murdered is a theory that gets thrown around a lot, but how often has this happened in real life? You'd also think that criminals who have no problem killing two innocent teenagers, would know of a better and less suspicious way to dispose of the bodies.

Anyway, just my two cents. Oh yeah, and the Clintons may be corrupt, but the suggestion that they were involved is just absurd.
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