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Old 12-14-2020, 12:05 AM   #166
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Here is my latest article and based on an UM segment that is probably in my top 5 of cases that stick with me. The unbelievably strange case of Judy Smith.

https://lostnfoundblogs.com/f/judy-s...ng-or-troubled
An great article CD.

Thanks!
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:04 PM   #167
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Great write up CD. I'm surprised I never saw this segment, very bizarre.

As I was reading the article I was thinking that maybe her and her husband got into a big argument while she was in Philadelphia and she went to NC to blow off steam, but unfortunately I think she was either having a mental breakdown or perhaps early symptoms of memory loss (dementia)

You said in your article that "I donít think Judy had amnesia as she told people some accurate information about herself" while true she also tried to take a child in a department store that she thought was her daughter but wasn't

Her murder was bizarre as it wasn't a robbery as she had all of her money on her so I wonder if it was the work of a random killer or if she surprised a random camper and they attacked her? Not sure
Wow.. Really? Maybe this one just sticks with me more as she was found relatively close to me (Upstate SC vs Western NC)

But I remember this case, and.. Before I've read CD's article, which I am very keen to do.. I think she ran and encountered someone who killed her. This smells to me like a pre-internet internet case if you know what I mean. Long distance correspondence with the wrong person.

I don't think she randomly wound up in Western NC. I think she knew someone there who she was leaving her husband for. So, my guess here is an intentional disappearance that turned into a murder.
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Old 12-14-2020, 08:42 PM   #168
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Wow.. Really? Maybe this one just sticks with me more as she was found relatively close to me (Upstate SC vs Western NC)

But I remember this case, and.. Before I've read CD's article, which I am very keen to do.. I think she ran and encountered someone who killed her. This smells to me like a pre-internet internet case if you know what I mean. Long distance correspondence with the wrong person.

I don't think she randomly wound up in Western NC. I think she knew someone there who she was leaving her husband for. So, my guess here is an intentional disappearance that turned into a murder.
Perhaps you're right. Maybe I missed some stuff as I've never seen the segment and I've only read CD's article on it, but her forgetting her license, and trying to take a child that wasn't hers who she thought was her daughter seemed like memory loss/mental disorder to me

There is the possibility that she went on her own accord without meeting anyone. Perhaps she left her license on purpose so she wouldn't have to go to the conference as she had plans to go hiking alone while her husband was at the conference. Maybe she had money stashed away that no one knew about and used that to purchase a rental car. There were multiple sightings of her driving alone with a car full of bags and boxes. Maybe she wasn't suffering from any mental disorder but simply wanted to get away on her own and did. Maybe she was stressed/fighting with her husband and used money she had hidden to finance her hiking trip while her husband was at the conference and she was murdered by someone on the camping ground for whatever reason
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Old 12-15-2020, 02:15 PM   #169
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Perhaps you're right. Maybe I missed some stuff as I've never seen the segment and I've only read CD's article on it, but her forgetting her license, and trying to take a child that wasn't hers who she thought was her daughter seemed like memory loss/mental disorder to me

There is the possibility that she went on her own accord without meeting anyone. Perhaps she left her license on purpose so she wouldn't have to go to the conference as she had plans to go hiking alone while her husband was at the conference. Maybe she had money stashed away that no one knew about and used that to purchase a rental car. There were multiple sightings of her driving alone with a car full of bags and boxes. Maybe she wasn't suffering from any mental disorder but simply wanted to get away on her own and did. Maybe she was stressed/fighting with her husband and used money she had hidden to finance her hiking trip while her husband was at the conference and she was murdered by someone on the camping ground for whatever reason
Perhaps the license was her plan, but she chickened out. When she got to Philly.. She pulled the trigger.

The only real question that throws holes in my theory, or at least the one I can think of. Is the question of how she got from Boston to NC. Sorry.. Backwards on that. Philly to NC.

CD brings up a good point that I hadn't considered.. Could the confusion have been some kind of manifestation of an early onset Alzehimers or similar?

I still lean more towards she knew someone there. The money.. I'm sorry, how do you make it from Philly to the mountains of Western NC and spend nothing? There had to have been assistance or she had money that noone knew about.
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Old 12-15-2020, 04:04 PM   #170
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Perhaps the license was her plan, but she chickened out. When she got to Philly.. She pulled the trigger.

The only real question that throws holes in my theory, or at least the one I can think of. Is the question of how she got from Boston to NC. Sorry.. Backwards on that. Philly to NC.

CD brings up a good point that I hadn't considered.. Could the confusion have been some kind of manifestation of an early onset Alzehimers or similar?

I still lean more towards she knew someone there. The money.. I'm sorry, how do you make it from Philly to the mountains of Western NC and spend nothing? There had to have been assistance or she had money that noone knew about.
The problem I have with her meeting someone there is that there were multiple sightings of her alone in stores and "driving in a car full of bags and boxes" as described by other witnesses. Not once has anyone recalled seeing her with anyone else. Maybe she had plans to meet someone there but I think she traveled there alone

I think she may have had extra money stashed somewhere that her family didn't know about. Perhaps she had extra cash or a credit card that she used to rent a car with and it was stashed in her red bag that was missing
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Old 12-15-2020, 04:26 PM   #171
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Looks great so far and will be a nice resource
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Old 12-15-2020, 05:31 PM   #172
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The problem I have with her meeting someone there is that there were multiple sightings of her alone in stores and "driving in a car full of bags and boxes" as described by other witnesses. Not once has anyone recalled seeing her with anyone else. Maybe she had plans to meet someone there but I think she traveled there alone

I think she may have had extra money stashed somewhere that her family didn't know about. Perhaps she had extra cash or a credit card that she used to rent a car with and it was stashed in her red bag that was missing
And.. if we want to poke holes in that.. Even in '96.. It was pretty damn difficult to travel under an assumed name. So.. let's say she did have the CC under a different address that the husband/rest of family wouldn't know about... Eventually the CC company is going to start looking for their money.

Can't rent a car with cash.. Though you certainly could travel by bus with it.. So, your thought does have ways that it could work. Air travel.. I don't see any way at all.

Seeing as they were only married 5 months, even after dating for 10 years.. I'd be interested to know who came up with the idea to get married. Him or her? Could we have a situation here where she felt pressured to marry him? Not trying to be offensive here, but I certainly could see a situation where he asked her to marry him, she laughed it off, and finally, he keeps asking and she feels trapped that if she rejects him, she'll look like some horrible person but she really doesn't want to get married. After 5 months, she just can't take it anymore.

You know, there's some of these cases where you can just sit there and take some theories and go.. No. You can say it's possible, but SUCH a long shot.. This one.. there's very little that you can reject like that. The only things we really can are that she flew from Philly to Asheville. I see no way she could have flown and not been tracked.

So.. She had to drive/be driven/train/bus travel.. or hitchhike, which.. I just don't buy that.

To me, that would be a huge clue. I think if you can track how she got to NC.. Many of the other pieces fall into place. Who killed her? Maybe not, but it would answer almost every other question.
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Old 12-15-2020, 07:39 PM   #173
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And.. if we want to poke holes in that.. Even in '96.. It was pretty damn difficult to travel under an assumed name. So.. let's say she did have the CC under a different address that the husband/rest of family wouldn't know about... Eventually the CC company is going to start looking for their money.

Can't rent a car with cash.. Though you certainly could travel by bus with it.. So, your thought does have ways that it could work. Air travel.. I don't see any way at all.

Seeing as they were only married 5 months, even after dating for 10 years.. I'd be interested to know who came up with the idea to get married. Him or her? Could we have a situation here where she felt pressured to marry him? Not trying to be offensive here, but I certainly could see a situation where he asked her to marry him, she laughed it off, and finally, he keeps asking and she feels trapped that if she rejects him, she'll look like some horrible person but she really doesn't want to get married. After 5 months, she just can't take it anymore.

You know, there's some of these cases where you can just sit there and take some theories and go.. No. You can say it's possible, but SUCH a long shot.. This one.. there's very little that you can reject like that. The only things we really can are that she flew from Philly to Asheville. I see no way she could have flown and not been tracked.

So.. She had to drive/be driven/train/bus travel.. or hitchhike, which.. I just don't buy that.

To me, that would be a huge clue. I think if you can track how she got to NC.. Many of the other pieces fall into place. Who killed her? Maybe not, but it would answer almost every other question.
A few people said they saw her drive, she even asked if a guard if she could sleep in her car in the park at night so she had to have gotten a vehicle from somewhere. The question would be where?

I don't know if she got a rental car under an assumed name, she gave someone the cash to get it, not sure but she was definitely seen driving around NC. Only possibilities that come to mind were that she rented, borrowed, bought a car in philly and drove to NC, or she took a train/bus to NC and acquired a car there somehow.

The problem I have with her meeting another man was that her wedding ring was still on her finger. Not sure you'd go have an affair with a wedding ring still on, unless she forgot to take it off and it triggered the man she was meeting with
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Old 12-15-2020, 07:55 PM   #174
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Actually now that I think about it was there any confirmation that she was actually in Philly?
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Old 12-16-2020, 12:49 AM   #175
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A few people said they saw her drive, she even asked if a guard if she could sleep in her car in the park at night so she had to have gotten a vehicle from somewhere. The question would be where?

I don't know if she got a rental car under an assumed name, she gave someone the cash to get it, not sure but she was definitely seen driving around NC. Only possibilities that come to mind were that she rented, borrowed, bought a car in philly and drove to NC, or she took a train/bus to NC and acquired a car there somehow.

The problem I have with her meeting another man was that her wedding ring was still on her finger. Not sure you'd go have an affair with a wedding ring still on, unless she forgot to take it off and it triggered the man she was meeting with
If the car was rental.. And she was killed while renting.. They would have gone looking for it. If she bought it.. Sooner or later the car would have been towed, though I suppose it's POSSIBLE it was registered under a false name.. Not easy to do. If she borrowed it.. Someone would have gone to get it back. The only person who wouldn't raise a stink about a missing car? The person who killed her. Because he'd know exactly where it was. Which we loop back to her knowing someone there.

Fair point about the wedding band.

But, if she didn't go there for someone she knew or 'knew' if we lend any credence to my other lover theory.. How the hell? I mean, Asheville now is something of a tourist destination. Back then.. Not so much. I mean, noone outside of the area had really ever heard of Maggie Valley.. They'd generally wind up over in Sevierville and Gatlinburg, TN. I know she had been to NC before, but my understanding was that she had visited the Charlotte area. And Charlotte is worlds away (Though only an hour and a half or so) from the Western NC mountains.

I mean, we want to.. We can say she ran across some moonshiners out in the woods and they killed her. The running into moonshiners is very possible there. (Read up on Popcorn Sutton who is from there) But.. They're usually not the killin' kind.

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Actually now that I think about it was there any confirmation that she was actually in Philly?
This was a question in the beginning. The husband was considered a suspect because the police couldn't really prove she had ever gotten to Philly. But with all the sightings of her there.. It's at least generally accepted that yes, she was really in Philly. For at least several days.

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Old 12-16-2020, 09:50 AM   #176
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But, if she didn't go there for someone she knew or 'knew' if we lend any credence to my other lover theory.. How the hell? I mean, Asheville now is something of a tourist destination. Back then.. Not so much. I mean, noone outside of the area had really ever heard of Maggie Valley.. They'd generally wind up over in Sevierville and Gatlinburg, TN. I know she had been to NC before, but my understanding was that she had visited the Charlotte area. And Charlotte is worlds away (Though only an hour and a half or so) from the Western NC mountains.
So I just watched the segment for the first time, and the only mysterious thing about this case is her killer. Her friend pretty much confirmed what I was thinking in that Judy had planned this getaway before they left for Philly and had left her license on purpose so she didn't have to go with Jeff initially.

I believe that Judy had planned a getaway of her own accord (perhaps she wanted to travel alone because she just wanted space to be alone) and she left her license on purpose so she could plan her trip to NC from Philly. I'm not sure how she paid for the car, but I believe she reserved the car sometime before leaving to Philly.

After she had her plans and destination mapped out, she flew to Philly to appease Jeff and then ditched him to follow out her plans when she went "sightseeing" (she already had this planned in advance)

She then got a car in Philly or NC and traveled alone as was reported by multiple eyewitnesses who claimed that she was alone and alert. I don't believe that Judy had any mental issues whatsoever.

Then she met someone while hiking who attacked her, or was attacked randomly by someone on the area.

I think she planned all of this and didn't suffer from a mental illness and the only mysterious thing is who killed her

This just seems like a case of someone who wasn't very happy or felt smothered and wanted some time alone to travel and be by herself but possibly felt like her husband would object to that so she planned it behind his back so they wouldn't have to argue about it and unfortunately ended up murdered
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:33 AM   #177
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If the car was rental.. And she was killed while renting.. They would have gone looking for it. If she bought it.. Sooner or later the car would have been towed, though I suppose it's POSSIBLE it was registered under a false name.. Not easy to do. If she borrowed it.. Someone would have gone to get it back. The only person who wouldn't raise a stink about a missing car? The person who killed her. Because he'd know exactly where it was. Which we loop back to her knowing someone there.
Exactly. Where is the car? Where are all these bags and boxes? I wouldn't be surprised if the woman in the car was just mistaken identity. It can only be that option or what you're describing above.

I'd lean towards it being a doppelganger, much like that mentally ill lady with outdated glasses whose image has been painted on the backs of tractor trailers nationwide. There were numerous reports of a lady fitting her description all up and down the east coast who even supposedly answered to the same name. Photos were even taken; it certainly looked like her. It took authorities years to finally catch up with this lady. It wasn't the same woman. I suspect the doppelganger theory with all the Patricia Meehan sightings as well.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:37 AM   #178
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Exactly. Where is the car? Where are all these bags and boxes? I wouldn't be surprised if the woman in the car was just mistaken identity. It can only be that option or what you're describing above.
Perhaps her killer stole it. Her red bag was missing so I'm wondering if it was in the car?

She was wearing new clothes her family haven't seen before so she must've went shopping at some point.
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Old 12-16-2020, 03:02 PM   #179
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Perhaps her killer stole it. Her red bag was missing so I'm wondering if it was in the car?

She was wearing new clothes her family haven't seen before so she must've went shopping at some point.
I believe there were possible sightings of her in New Jersey shopping for clothes in the days after her disappearance.

But then, also.. How long was she in Western NC before being killed? If she 'escaped' to there and that's where she was going to make her life.. ok.. The part about he sleeping in the car makes some sense. She just got there, nowhere to stay.. It's April.. Weather could still be cool there, but probably no issue spending a night in a car. (I haven't heard this, about her sleeping in the car, at least I don't remember it, so just going off what you had said)

She had on hiking gear. Or at least, the clothes suggest she was hiking. She was in a hotel, supposedly, from the 10th to 12th of April. Hotel should have had good surveillance. They should have been able to see how she got there. Which leads to a car.. Which, hopefully, should have led to answers. Hotel should have had records.. Did she register under her name? Unless it was a fleabag hotel, she probably had to pay with a credit card. What card did she use?

We have none of that.. Is it because it wasn't done? bad policework? or, are these the details the cops are keeping in their back pocket that 'only the killer would know'?

THAT, often, can be one of the biggest hurdles for us amateur sleuths. And, I understand why it's done. But, sometimes, things like this wind up making huge conspiracy theories.
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Old 12-16-2020, 04:37 PM   #180
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She just got there, nowhere to stay.. It's April.. Weather could still be cool there, but probably no issue spending a night in a car. (I haven't heard this, about her sleeping in the car, at least I don't remember it, so just going off what you had said)
I got that from Crystal Dawn's blog:

"The police started an investigation and it was reported there were sightings of Judy Smith around Asheville in the days after she had went missing from Philadelphia. Two of the sightings strangely said Judy was driving a gray sedan filled with boxes and bags. One sighting was near the campground where her remains were found. The woman asked if she could spend the night there in her car. When she was told she could not, she left the area.
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If she 'escaped' to there and that's where she was going to make her life.. ok.. The part about he sleeping in the car makes some sense.
I don't think she was going to make her life there. I think she went for a brief vacation just to getaway. She seemed close with her daughter, and was still wearing her wedding ring. I think this was just a temporary getaway.
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