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Old 01-15-2011, 12:07 AM   #226
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Actually, if the person that killed Diana (and possibly Riemer) was known to both of them, then there would be a good chance that Crystal would recognize that person. That's something that the killer couldn't allow to happen.
Like almost everything else in this case, it could go either way. If the killer was known to Mike and/or Diane:

1. S/he could have kept Crystal alive because he knew the family and felt sympathy for them (although that sympathy didn't keep him/her from murdering them); alternatively

2. If s/he was known to the family, Crystal could have identified him/her; alternatively

3. The killer could have known Mike and/or Diane but had never met Crystal.
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Old 01-15-2011, 09:20 AM   #227
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Like almost everything else in this case, it could go either way. If the killer was known to Mike and/or Diane:

1. S/he could have kept Crystal alive because he knew the family and felt sympathy for them (although that sympathy didn't keep him/her from murdering them); alternatively

2. If s/he was known to the family, Crystal could have identified him/her; alternatively

3. The killer could have known Mike and/or Diane but had never met Crystal.
Sooo..a person that knew one (or both) of the parent's and had a deep enough grudge or was just psycho enough to kill two adults was compassionate enough to take their daughter who might recognize him/her out of the woods? And drop that daughter off at a K-Mart , risking being seen by others? Instead of simply killing her or leaving her to die in the forest?

The fact that Crystal is still alive and one of the "victims" is missing speaks volumes as to who committed the crime(s).
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:37 AM   #228
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Sooo..a person that knew one (or both) of the parent's and had a deep enough grudge or was just psycho enough to kill two adults was compassionate enough to take their daughter who might recognize him/her out of the woods? And drop that daughter off at a K-Mart , risking being seen by others? Instead of simply killing her or leaving her to die in the forest?

The fact that Crystal is still alive and one of the "victims" is missing speaks volumes as to who committed the crime(s).
Not true. There was a quadruple homicide that happened in Santa Claus, GA back in 1997 at a foster home. There were 9 occupants in the house and the murderer broke in and murdered the parents and a teenage girl and an eight year old boy. He left two boys (4 year old & 10 month old) alive in the house and took 3 young girls (ranging from 3-8) with him for 50 miles before dropping them off on a bridge. If someone is unstable enough to viciously murder a couple, is it really that much of a stretch that he spared Crystal? Why would a serial killer do this? I have no idea but the same question could be asked as to why he killed Cooper, Harkins, Diana, and possibly Riemer.

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Old 01-15-2011, 12:15 PM   #229
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In these latest exchanges it seems you guys have forgot the other tube sock murder. The person who killed Diana either had intimate knowledge about the murder of Ruth Cooper or was actually her killer. Remember the officer said that the socks used in both where a match. So if someone killed Mike and Diana for some personal grudge how do you explain the similarities with the murder of cooper??
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:22 PM   #230
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In these latest exchanges it seems you guys have forgot the other tube sock murder. The person who killed Diana either had intimate knowledge about the murder of Ruth Cooper or was actually her killer. So if someone killed Mike and Diana for some personal grudge how do you explain the similarities with the murder of cooper??
We simply don't know if there was any type of sexual assault attempted or done to Ruth Cooper and/or Diana, so we really can't rule out the possibility of a sicko who killed the men to get closer to the women. In the respect that Riemer is guilty, how would one explain the Cooper/Harkins suicide? He had no direct ties to either victim, so what would the point be in brutally murdering them? It's also possible that some psychopath who knew Diana and Mike murdered Cooper and Harkins, and then "selected" Diana and Mike as his next victims for some unknown motive.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:38 PM   #231
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Sooo..a person that knew one (or both) of the parent's and had a deep enough grudge or was just psycho enough to kill two adults was compassionate enough to take their daughter who might recognize him/her out of the woods? And drop that daughter off at a K-Mart , risking being seen by others? Instead of simply killing her or leaving her to die in the forest?

The fact that Crystal is still alive and one of the "victims" is missing speaks volumes as to who committed the crime(s).
It's speculation to guess as to the motives of the killer. I would agree that Crystal being spared is more indicative of Mike being the killer, but it's not impossible that a third-party would also spare her.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:58 PM   #232
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In these latest exchanges it seems you guys have forgot the other tube sock murder. The person who killed Diana either had intimate knowledge about the murder of Ruth Cooper or was actually her killer. Remember the officer said that the socks used in both where a match. So if someone killed Mike and Diana for some personal grudge how do you explain the similarities with the murder of cooper??
I didn't forget it and did have some questions relating to it - the problem is, from my point of view, is that we know very little about the Cooper killing. Specifically, I would ask these questions:

1. Were the socks exactly the same or the same type - if they were, for instance, a matching pair, or striped or colored the same, I would give more weight to it; if they were generic white tube socks without any proven link, it's possible it's just a coincidence.

2. Were the knots exactly the same, and is the knot unique or special enough to make this important? If the "knot" was just a basic tie-off not requiring any special skills or knowledge, again, it could be coincidence. If the knot was a special type of knot, again, it'd be much more significant.

The cop interviewed in the segment wasn't really clear, so I don't consider these questions answered. We also don't know how much coverage the Cooper murder received - if the knot and the sock were hold-backs, this is obviously more significant then if it were common knowledge (which would easily allow Mike or another killer to copycat).

I would say this:

1. If the sock was exactly the same and the knot was a unique and/or unusual knot and this information was not common knowledge, then there is a high degree of certainty the same individual killed both women.

2. If, on the other hand, the sock is generic, the knot is generic, and/or the sock and knot information was common knowledge, it could be nothing more then an attempt to mislead investigators.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #233
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We simply don't know if there was any type of sexual assault attempted or done to Ruth Cooper and/or Diana, so we really can't rule out the possibility of a sicko who killed the men to get closer to the women. In the respect that Riemer is guilty, how would one explain the Cooper/Harkins suicide? He had no direct ties to either victim, so what would the point be in brutally murdering them? It's also possible that some psychopath who knew Diana and Mike murdered Cooper and Harkins, and then "selected" Diana and Mike as his next victims for some unknown motive.
Did you mean "homicide" in stead of suicide? Because I've never nor heard anything that ever described the first killings as a "suicide." And as to why anybody would kill the first couple..who knows? Maybe there was argument. Maybe the killer want to kill someone. Maybe the killer was planning a future killing and wanted to set the stage for it.

Riemer's absence only makes "sense" if for some reason the killer decided to kill him elsewhere and then move the truck and Diana's body alone. And then take the child all the way to the K-Mart and drop her off. Or..if Riemer was the killer.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:29 PM   #234
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Not true. There was a quadruple homicide that happened in Santa Claus, GA back in 1997 at a foster home. There were 9 occupants in the house and the murderer broke in and murdered the parents and a teenage girl and an eight year old boy. He left two boys (4 year old & 10 month old) alive in the house and took 3 young girls (ranging from 3-8) with him for 50 miles before dropping them off on a bridge. If someone is unstable enough to viciously murder a couple, is it really that much of a stretch that he spared Crystal? Why would a serial killer do this? I have no idea but the same question could be asked as to why he killed Cooper, Harkins, Diana, and possibly Riemer.
In 1977, two 747's collided on a runway. Never happened before...never happened since.My point: There are numerous thing that CAN happen. But the odds against them happening as so astronomical that they don't. In this case, the odds of a third party committing all of the acts involved in this case are so astronomical as to be unlikely.

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Old 01-15-2011, 03:33 PM   #235
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Did you mean "homicide" in stead of suicide? Because I've never nor heard anything that ever described the first killings as a "suicide." And as to why anybody would kill the first couple..who knows? Maybe there was argument. Maybe the killer want to kill someone. Maybe the killer was planning a future killing and wanted to set the stage for it.

Riemer's absence only makes "sense" if for some reason the killer decided to kill him elsewhere and then move the truck and Diana's body alone. And then take the child all the way to the K-Mart and drop her off. Or..if Riemer was the killer.
Really don't know what I was thinking when I typed suicide, but yes I meant homicide. The fact that Ruth Cooper was found 1-1/2 miles away from Harkins tells me that she was the target somehow. Let's assume their killer did get into a heated argument and it wasn't a planned attack. If Harkins/Cooper did/said something to set this guy off, he would have just shot both of them dead at point blank range. The fact that Harkins was shot in his sleeeping bag tells me the killer snuck up on the couple, killed Harkins, and then took Cooper (at gunpoint presumably) to the spot where she was found and killed her. For all we know something similiar could have happened to Riemer and Diana.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:09 PM   #236
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Sooo..a person that knew one (or both) of the parent's and had a deep enough grudge or was just psycho enough to kill two adults was compassionate enough to take their daughter who might recognize him/her out of the woods? And drop that daughter off at a K-Mart , risking being seen by others? Instead of simply killing her or leaving her to die in the forest?
That same logic can be applied to Riemer. Riemer would also risk being seen by others, and there was no guarantee that Crystal wouldn't tell authorities that Riemer was the one who dropped her off. If Crystal didn't witness the actual crime (and let's hope to God she didn't), is it that illogical that a killer would spare her life?

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Old 01-16-2011, 02:03 PM   #237
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That some logic can be applied to Riemer. Riemer would also risk being seen by others, and there was no guarantee that Crystal wouldn't tell authorities that Riemer was the one who dropped her off. If Crystal didn't witness the actual crime (and let's hope to God she didn't), is it that illogical that a killer would spare her life?
Yes, it was illogical for the killer to spare her life, whether it was Riemer or an unnamed third party. While Crystal didn't give details of what happened, she easily could have. And that fact would have to be on the mind of whoever killed her mother.Of the two potential killers in the case, IMO, only Riemer had a reason to allow the child to live and only Riemer would have expended the time and resources (as well as taken the risk) to have transported the girl away from the crime scene.

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Old 01-17-2011, 01:59 AM   #238
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That some logic can be applied to Riemer. Riemer would also risk being seen by others, and there was no guarantee that Crystal wouldn't tell authorities that Riemer was the one who dropped her off. If Crystal didn't witness the actual crime (and let's hope to God she didn't), is it that illogical that a killer would spare her life?
Could it be that Reimer knew that Crystal had very little vocabulary and would not be able to tell anyone he had dropped her off?
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:24 AM   #239
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Could it be that Reimer knew that Crystal had very little vocabulary and would not be able to tell anyone he had dropped her off?
While that is possible, what if Crystal suddenly remembered being dropped off by Riemer when she got older? The silence about Riemer from Crystal tells me she simlpy didn't know where he was.
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:32 AM   #240
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While that is possible, what if Crystal suddenly remembered being dropped off by Riemer when she got older? The silence about Riemer from Crystal tells me she simlpy didn't know where he was.
To be fair, we don't know what Crystal might have said. Without knowing her vocabulary (sophisticated enough to say "Mommy is in the trees" at least), it's still hard to imagine she wouldn't be able to say something about WHO dropped her off, unless she was traumatized, drugged, etc..

Given the nature of memory, I would not expect Crystal today to remember anything at all from when she was 2.
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