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Old 01-05-2011, 01:24 PM   #136
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He could have done that anywhere from a few hours to several days (or more) from when the little girl was found. There's been nothing shown determining when Diana was brought to where she was found and when the truck was left there.

In fact, that time gap could have been all of the time Riemer might need to gather what he would need to go out in the woods or dispose of any evidence linking him to the crime. Since it's never made clear where Riemer was living, he could have even gone back there and stayed until they found the little girl and then left the area.

Or...if Riemer was seeing another woman at the same time, he could have stayed at her place for a few days and then left when the news announced that the little girl was found.
While that is possible, it still seems likely that someone associated with Riemer would have known about another woman. Riemer's father notified authorities that they were missing the day after, so he had to have either phoned Riemer's place or gone over there himself. I'm sure police had access to his house too and did a search and if they did find evidence that he had packed some clothes and looked like he was fleeing that should have been enough to issue a warrant for his arrest. But there never was a warrant which leads me to believe that authorities could find no evidence of him fleeing the area.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:34 PM   #137
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Well in the segment they said she was found in the afternoon and in the re-enactment it was broad daylight. It would not be daylight at 830pm in December. Also whoever dropped her off there drove 30 miles from where Diana was found to do so. I wonder why they drove so far when there where plenty of populated areas near where the body was found she could have been left. Why would a killer risk having the child with him that long???
Riemer would have ran the same risk as the killer. He was in an area that was frequented by tourists and he would have risked having someone seeing him with Crystal. As to why a killer would have Crystal with him that long, perhaps the killer didn't. There is always the possibility that a passerby gave Crystal a ride instead of Diana's killer.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:57 PM   #138
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While that is possible, it still seems likely that someone associated with Riemer would have known about another woman. Riemer's father notified authorities that they were missing the day after, so he had to have either phoned Riemer's place or gone over there himself. I'm sure police had access to his house too and did a search and if they did find evidence that he had packed some clothes and looked like he was fleeing that should have been enough to issue a warrant for his arrest. But there never was a warrant which leads me to believe that authorities could find no evidence of him fleeing the area.
Infidelity appeared to be an issue in Riemer's relationship w/ Diana. He was accusing her of infidelity, which is usually (but not always) something that someone who is actually cheating does. Plus, being a musician (not to stereotype musicians) I doubt that Riemer wouldn't have had many opportunities.

Also, there would really be no need for Riemer to "pack" in the general sense of the term. If he was going to become a "mountain man", everything he needed could fit into a backpack, which he may have already had in the truck. If he was going for a more "traditional" lifestyle, all he would need would be loose cash, which he may have already had on him or have gone back to where he was living to get.

He obviously left the area on foot (his truck was left there) and either hitched or was given a ride by an unknown acquaintance or friend out the area. That means that he wouldn't have taken that much as he would have been limited in what he could easily travel w/ on the road.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:02 PM   #139
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The chances are quite good that even a detailed search wouldn't have discovered his remains. He wasn't a large man and animals could have predated upon his remains and scattered the bones. He did disappear in a heavily wooded area so there would likely be a number of critters in the area.
If this could apply to George Owens (the elderly man who appeared disoriented at a convenience store and who's car was found abandoned in a wooded area) why does it not apply to Riemer? Owens was 5'11 and weight 160 lbs. while Riemer was 6'0 and weighed 180 lbs. Not much of a difference physically.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:16 PM   #140
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If this could apply to George Owens (the elderly man who appeared disoriented at a convenience store and who's car was found abandoned in a wooded area) why does it not apply to Riemer? Owens was 5'11 and weight 160 lbs. while Riemer was 6'0 and weighed 180 lbs. Not much of a difference physically.
You're correct,it could. However, from description it appears that Diana's body was not predated upon in manner significant enough to hinder the identification of her remains. That may be largely because she was found fully clothed, but it may have just been the weather.In Mr. Owens case, he disappeared in a warmer climate meaning that if/when he died, finding remains would be much more difficult.

Given the fact that the area where Riemer disappeared was searched for Green River Killer victims, it's pretty clear that if Riemer was left unburied in the area (as were the other victims) he probably would have been found.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:31 PM   #141
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You're correct,it could. However, from description it appears that Diana's body was not predated upon in manner significant enough to hinder the identification of her remains. That may be largely because she was found fully clothed, but it may have just been the weather.In Mr. Owens case, he disappeared in a warmer climate meaning that if/when he died, finding remains would be much more difficult.

Given the fact that the area where Riemer disappeared was searched for Green River Killer victims, it's pretty clear that if Riemer was left unburied in the area (as were the other victims) he probably would have been found.
Guilty or innocent, I still think the odds are in favor that Riemer is dead. Whether or not he was a victim is obviously up for debate, but if he is responsible and decided to kill himself his body has yet to be found. And it's possible that Riemer was killed near the lake checking his traps and his body was dumped into the lake.

Do you concede that it's possible that Riemer was injured while checking his trap lines (possibly by gunshot, since there were spent shells found near Diana's body) and "played dead", and then attempted to get back to his truck only to die from his wounds?
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:44 PM   #142
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We also have to remember that if Riemer was a victim, his killer had two months to dispose of his body. Diana's body wasn't found for two months, and the newspaper articles written about the missing couple (before Diana's body was found) seem to imply Riemer's guilt. So if this guy was local he could have read the papers and devised a plan to set Riemer up as the fall guy.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:50 PM   #143
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Guilty or innocent, I still think the odds are in favor that Riemer is dead. Whether or not he was a victim is obviously up for debate, but if he is responsible and decided to kill himself his body has yet to be found. And it's possible that Riemer was killed near the lake checking his traps and his body was dumped into the lake.

Do you concede that it's possible that Riemer was injured while checking his trap lines (possibly by gunshot, since there were spent shells found near Diana's body) and "played dead", and then attempted to get back to his truck only to die from his wounds?
It's conceivable that could have happened. But the vintage of the shell casings left near the body has never been released. They simply could have been left there by hunters/target shooters prior to Diana being found or even placed there by Riemer to sow doubt in any investigation.

If Riemer died from his "wounds", where is he? The major reason that Riemer is suspected of the killings (besides Crystal and the knot) is the fact that his body was never found. There are few, if any, reasons that the killer (if it's not Riemer) would move or hide his body. He hadn't done the same for the three other people he killed;why would he do it for Riemer?

Riemer may well be dead...now. More than a few years have passed w/o a sighting; although that could be explained by the fact that other than UM, this case has never received much nationwide publicity. He could also be very much alive, living in a wilderness area or simply living under an assumed name doing day labor.

I just don't believe that he was a victim in this case.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:36 AM   #144
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Guilty or innocent, I still think the odds are in favor that Riemer is dead. Whether or not he was a victim is obviously up for debate, but if he is responsible and decided to kill himself his body has yet to be found. And it's possible that Riemer was killed near the lake checking his traps and his body was dumped into the lake.

Do you concede that it's possible that Riemer was injured while checking his trap lines (possibly by gunshot, since there were spent shells found near Diana's body) and "played dead", and then attempted to get back to his truck only to die from his wounds?
Well first off it was a river not a lake so if he had went in his body would have washed up somewhere. Also what would he be doing by the river checking traps with no coat?

I don't know about your idea that he could have been shot, played dead and then staggered back to the truck to die of his wounds. Again we must ask where is his body? Where is the blood if he was shot there. The police brought bloodhounds out that did not pick up his scent. Also his father stated that where the truck was found was no where near his trap lines so that would have been alot of ground for him to cover while staggering. Plus why would he park so far away from his trap line if checking it was his intention?
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:39 AM   #145
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Riemer would have ran the same risk as the killer. He was in an area that was frequented by tourists and he would have risked having someone seeing him with Crystal. As to why a killer would have Crystal with him that long, perhaps the killer didn't. There is always the possibility that a passerby gave Crystal a ride instead of Diana's killer.
You honestly think some passerby picked up a stray two year old and left her in a parking lot?? I can't even imagine that scenrio. If Mike is seen with crystal then so what? Its his child and no one even knows a crime has been committed at the time.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:59 AM   #146
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You honestly think some passerby picked up a stray two year old and left her in a parking lot?? I can't even imagine that scenrio. If Mike is seen with crystal then so what? Its his child and no one even knows a crime has been committed at the time.
If he was seen with Crystal without Diana somewhere outside of the wilderness, he instantly becomes the number one suspect. What if Crystal was picked up by a trucker or a motorist on a tight schedule? Obviously its pretty callous to leave a two year old girl abandoned in a parking lot, but we don't even know if this is where Crystal was actually dropped off. She may have wandered over after being dropped off somewhere else, perhaps someone stopped to use a phone to call the authorities and she wandered away to the store...we simply have no way of knowing. I personally believe that Diana's killer dropped Crystal off but we really have no way of knowing.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:16 AM   #147
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If he was seen with Crystal without Diana somewhere outside of the wilderness, he instantly becomes the number one suspect. What if Crystal was picked up by a trucker or a motorist on a tight schedule? Obviously its pretty callous to leave a two year old girl abandoned in a parking lot, but we don't even know if this is where Crystal was actually dropped off. She may have wandered over after being dropped off somewhere else, perhaps someone stopped to use a phone to call the authorities and she wandered away to the store...we simply have no way of knowing. I personally believe that Diana's killer dropped Crystal off but we really have no way of knowing.
Being a father myself, I can tell you that there's no way that Crystal was in front of that store for more than a few minutes in the cold, alone. She wasn't fidgeting too much and she wasn't crying according to the segment. She would have been doing both if she was left alone in a place that she didn't know.

It's almost inconceivable that anybody who picked up a two year old would neither take the child to the nearest police/fire station/hospital nor take the child to their home and contact the authorities. There are people who wouldn't do that...but they would either have nefarious plans for a child or simply "keep" her and raise her as their "own."

Whoever dropped Crystal off in front of the store was concerned that she be found and taken care of. If they weren't concerned, they would have simply left her in the forest.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:39 AM   #148
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Being a father myself, I can tell you that there's no way that Crystal was in front of that store for more than a few minutes in the cold, alone. She wasn't fidgeting too much and she wasn't crying according to the segment. She would have been doing both if she was left alone in a place that she didn't know.
What if she witnessed her mother and possibly father's murder? Or her mother's murder at the hands of her father? She was in a state of shock according to some accounts, so I don't think it would have mattered how long she stayed out there. Even after they brought her inside the only information they could get out of her was the cryptic line about mommy in the trees. I don't think Crystal was out in front of the store for a long time either, but it would have to have been long enough for someone entering the store to go in and shop and then come out and realize the little girl was still there unattended.

If Riemer was the one dropping Crystal off, wouldn't it be more logical for him to drop the child off at a relative or friends house? He could have simply pulled up and told Crystal to get out and then driven away. Or he could have written down a phone number for one of his or Diana's relatives and put it in one of Crystal's pockets so someone would be able to contact the family. Or make an anonymous phone call about a little girl left out front of a K-mart to the authorities? It seems like whoever dropped her off had little concern for her, they could just as easily dropped her off at a hospital where they knew for certain she would be taken care of.

There's one thing I don't get about why it took so long for Crystal to be identified. It took three days after her discovery for her grandmother to see something on the news about her. It just doesn't make sense as to why the authorities never really put 2 and 2 together. Riemer and Diana were missing at the time, and Riemer's father reported all three missing the day after they were supposed to return. The majority of accounts place Crystal at the K-mart the same day Riemer and Diana went missing. So why couldn't they determine that she was the girl from the missing couple?! This case could have possibly been solved if they made that connection sooner, IMO. "48 hours is the most crucial time to solve a case."
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:55 AM   #149
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What if she witnessed her mother and possibly father's murder? Or her mother's murder at the hands of her father? She was in a state of shock according to some accounts, so I don't think it would have mattered how long she stayed out there. Even after they brought her inside the only information they could get out of her was the cryptic line about mommy in the trees. I don't think Crystal was out in front of the store for a long time either, but it would have to have been long enough for someone entering the store to go in and shop and then come out and realize the little girl was still there unattended.

If Riemer was the one dropping Crystal off, wouldn't it be more logical for him to drop the child off at a relative or friends house? He could have simply pulled up and told Crystal to get out and then driven away. Or he could have written down a phone number for one of his or Diana's relatives and put it in one of Crystal's pockets so someone would be able to contact the family. Or make an anonymous phone call about a little girl left out front of a K-mart to the authorities? It seems like whoever dropped her off had little concern for her, they could just as easily dropped her off at a hospital where they knew for certain she would be taken care of.

There's one thing I don't get about why it took so long for Crystal to be identified. It took three days after her discovery for her grandmother to see something on the news about her. It just doesn't make sense as to why the authorities never really put 2 and 2 together. Riemer and Diana were missing at the time, and Riemer's father reported all three missing the day after they were supposed to return. The majority of accounts place Crystal at the K-mart the same day Riemer and Diana went missing. So why couldn't they determine that she was the girl from the missing couple?! This case could have possibly been solved if they made that connection sooner, IMO. "48 hours is the most crucial time to solve a case."

1) She may well have been in "shock" from what she heard or saw. But she's also a little kid and kids act in certain manners in certain situations. When they are unexpectedly left alone in a strange place, the majority of the time (boy or girl) they'll start to fidget and then cry.

2) Not knowing Riemer's family (or his relationship w/ Diana's) there's no way of knowing of he could have dropped Crystal w/o being seen by the relatives and foiling whatever plan he had. The K-Mart was an easy choice as there may not have been a camera outside and someone would find the child before too long.

3) Even if they found Crystal shortly after the disappearance, an extended period would have passed before they made the connection between her and the missing family report filed by Riemer's father. This was before the Internet and before most LE agencies had computer databases.

Given that multiple LE agencies were involved, it's lucky that it didn't take a week or more to identify Crystal and get her to her family.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:39 PM   #150
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What if she witnessed her mother and possibly father's murder? Or her mother's murder at the hands of her father? She was in a state of shock according to some accounts, so I don't think it would have mattered how long she stayed out there. Even after they brought her inside the only information they could get out of her was the cryptic line about mommy in the trees. I don't think Crystal was out in front of the store for a long time either, but it would have to have been long enough for someone entering the store to go in and shop and then come out and realize the little girl was still there unattended.

If Riemer was the one dropping Crystal off, wouldn't it be more logical for him to drop the child off at a relative or friends house? He could have simply pulled up and told Crystal to get out and then driven away. Or he could have written down a phone number for one of his or Diana's relatives and put it in one of Crystal's pockets so someone would be able to contact the family. Or make an anonymous phone call about a little girl left out front of a K-mart to the authorities? It seems like whoever dropped her off had little concern for her, they could just as easily dropped her off at a hospital where they knew for certain she would be taken care of.

There's one thing I don't get about why it took so long for Crystal to be identified. It took three days after her discovery for her grandmother to see something on the news about her. It just doesn't make sense as to why the authorities never really put 2 and 2 together. Riemer and Diana were missing at the time, and Riemer's father reported all three missing the day after they were supposed to return. The majority of accounts place Crystal at the K-mart the same day Riemer and Diana went missing. So why couldn't they determine that she was the girl from the missing couple?! This case could have possibly been solved if they made that connection sooner, IMO. "48 hours is the most crucial time to solve a case."
Um well if Riemer did infact kill Diana and was having to come up with a quick plan to get away I cant imagine that dropping her off at a relatives house would be the smartest thing to do. I mean then it would be obvious to everyone that he wasnt a victim and was indeed the killer. Unless ofcourse just by chance the unknown killer dropped her off at a random house and it just happened to be a relative. That would be a stretch I would think.

Why didnt they make the connection sooner?? Well Crystal was found 30 miles away from where they had went missing. Probably different jurisdictions involved here. No connection was made between Crystal and her missing parents until three days later when she was on TV and her grandmother saw her. So that should tell you just how little these LE agencies work together or share info. Do you see now why it could have been so easy for Mike to slip away?????????

I also dont get how you think the 48 hour rule would apply here when they didnt even know if a crime had been committed. They where out looking for them the next day but without bodies or a crime scene there isnt much that can be done. Even if they had made the connection between Crystal and her missing parents right off it would not have helped the search effort any.
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