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Old 08-25-2009, 03:08 PM   #46
mattc
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Wow... the charley project site says that the killer passed a polygraph the first time around! That is shocking. Any tips on how that is possible? Maybe if someone is a sociopath they can convince themselves that they didn't do it, or have no reaction to it physically. Anyway, it sounds like this guy was truly sick.
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:38 PM   #47
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Quote:
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Wow... the charley project site says that the killer passed a polygraph the first time around! That is shocking. Any tips on how that is possible? Maybe if someone is a sociopath they can convince themselves that they didn't do it, or have no reaction to it physically. Anyway, it sounds like this guy was truly sick.
Passing a poly is very easy, which is why it's a tool of the trade, and not the end all be all of an investigation. People usually don't "pass" because they don't think they can; they believe the hype about them - ZOMG LIE DETECTOR! Make yourself believe whatever you wish before they hook you up, and you'll pass. It doesn't take very long to prepare yourself actually. Remain calm, and tell yourself everything you're about to say is true. Believe it. We can delude ourselves in a matter of moments.

We experimented with them in class; it was ridiculously easy to pass the poly.

'Are you a purple monkey?'
'Yes.'

Questions like that, I kid you not.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:13 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki's Aunt
I am Micki Jo West's aunt. I googled her name just for the heck of it and was surprised to find so much information - and interest - but none since 10/05. Anyone still interested? I would like to see the Unsolved Mysteries episode again (I lost my copy in a fire). I'd also like to hear from anyone who is still interested in this case, or who has any information.

Aunt T
Aunt T,
I am still very interested in the case, I find it interesteting that they dont mention her family much. Also they never found her remains did they?
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:10 AM   #49
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Aunt T,
I am still very interested in the case, I find it interesteting that they dont mention her family much. Also they never found her remains did they?
Her sister spoke during the segment. Maybe she came from a small family, who knows.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:56 PM   #50
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Quote:
Passing a poly is very easy, which is why it's a tool of the trade, and not the end all be all of an investigation. People usually don't "pass" because they don't think they can; they believe the hype about them - ZOMG LIE DETECTOR! Make yourself believe whatever you wish before they hook you up, and you'll pass. It doesn't take very long to prepare yourself actually. Remain calm, and tell yourself everything you're about to say is true. Believe it. We can delude ourselves in a matter of moments.

We experimented with them in class; it was ridiculously easy to pass the poly
.

Your experment is faulty based on these factors.
1. I don;t know how you simulated the real life pressures of a person committing a felony. Does your class consist of suspected felons?

2. How did you simulate the pressure of having law enforcement around you and being in a an interrogation room.

3. How do you assimulate the pressure of being asked about a piece of evidence like a bloody knife? How do you simulate recognition.

4. You also didn't assimulate the police interrogation that preceeds the lie detector test. One reason the police may have you do a lioe detector test is that they know that your are nervous enough to fail one.

5. Everyone has the option to decline a lie detector test. This was a factor that you didn't take into account. Someone who's assured that they can lie comfortably may accept it. Other's may decline it. The fact that one accepts or declines a polygraph is as helpful to the police as the test itself. if someone refuses a lie detector test, that may mean that he has something to hide. Someone who accepts the test and was calm in the interrogation room, may have
a. committed the crime for a long while and has learned to live with it.
b. may be an experience criminal and has been subjected to the test.

6. I'm also willing to bet you did this test at a descent hour of the day. When your subjects were well feed, relaxed and not waiting for a long period. Imagine if you did the test at 3:00 am, after waiting 3 hrs, on an empty stomach in a hot, crampt and smelly room.



The thing you can't simulate in class lie detector experiment is the real pressure of being suspected of a crime.

Lie detector tests are used for leverage and for focusing on a suspect.
Nobody uses it to exonerate or eliminate a suspect.

Passing a lie detector test means nothing to law enforcement. Failing a lie detector may prompt them to focus on you or use it as an excuse for a search warrant.

Last edited by Mastermind; 11-20-2009 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:41 PM   #51
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This segment is scheduled to air again today.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:05 PM   #52
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The UM update indicates that he was charged despite the body never being found. He pled guilty and apparantly has three life sentences, one for each victim. I want to hear the particulars of the case and the marital dispute, as there is so little info.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:40 AM   #53
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Mikki Jo West's case was so vague. I do too liked the way UM actually made the effort to stage reenactments in their actual locations and the realistic circumstances they mirrored. Thats what made the show legendary and why the new UM is a pathetic hack of a show, useful only for updates.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:03 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WishfulDreamer
I want to hear the particulars of the case and the marital dispute, as there is so little info.
I always wondered if Ruth West was actually talking about Marvin Lee Irvin when she said "I think I know who did it, and I think I know why they did it."

This segment definitely gets the Vague Details Award, along with Kathy Bonderson.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:58 AM   #55
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This segment definitely gets the Vague Details Award, along with Kathy Bonderson.
Tell me about it. Wasn't this the segment that also said police believed they knew who was writing the letters, but UM didn't reveal anything about this suspect (who was ultimately Irvin)?
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Old 02-03-2011, 12:32 PM   #56
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This was a classic segment. But I agree that it was pretty vague. It seemed Mikki's family, friends and the police all believed Marvin Lee Irvin killed Mikki. But they did not have enough concrete evidence so they could not say his name in the broadcast.

Was Irvin going through a divorce at the time when Mikki was killed? The segment said she may have gotten too involved in a friend's marriage dispute. Maybe Mikki told her she should leave her husband and because of that, Irvin killed her. I think she was only 19 years old at the time, though. How involved could she have gotten?

Even with an arrest, there's still so many unanswered questions.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:53 AM   #57
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If it hasn't been said already, maybe one of the reasons he passed the polygraph is that he had dissociative identity disorder (multiple personality) and the personality that took the test really didn't believe he did it. What I find so fascinating about this case is that he might have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for the persistent notes. I know that some serial killers taunt the media and police for attention, but these letters seemed desperate, like someone who was truly afraid of Marvin and worried about being killed themselves. One letter, which UM paraphrased, read something like, "Marvin was so angry he beat her bad and then he cry..." or something like that. Maybe some part of him really had no idea that the other part was trying to get him convicted.

In the things I read, there seems to be no mention of how the case was finally cracked or what piece of evidence convinced them that he did it. I don't think they found the body, and the fact is he was a suspect from the very beginning. If anyone knows, I'm curious. I find this one of the spookier cases of UM because it makes me wonder, even in the case of sociopaths or serial killers (he confessed to other killings) do they feel remorse? In his case, I feel some part of him wanted himself stopped because maybe he knew he was going to kill again.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:24 AM   #58
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Somewhat suprisingly, this case doesn't seem to be discussed all that much.

Elsewhere online, I read that Irvin encountered Mikki Jo at a bus stop and she threw the hammer at him. I find this interesting for a couple of reasons:

First, the segment depicts that Irvin caught up with West as she was walking to work. This could just be another re-enactment goof, then on the other hand, maybe Irvin isn't telling the truth. If West did in fact make it as far as the bus stop, I'm guessing there were no eyewitnesses around. I don't know the area at all, but it would seem like there would be other people at the bus stop even at that early hour, or somebody that saw *something*

Second, and as much as it pains me to say this, but if West threw the hammer at him, that may have been significantly riskier than keeping it on hand. Throwing the hammer means you only get one shot and if you miss, your sort of screwed. I don't enjoy typing this, but being that West had rational fears, why didn't someone drive her to work?

I hope for Mikki Jo's sake, she was at least able to get in a good shot on Irvin. I have to wonder if there was any blood evidence in the area. Seems like there would have been some disturbance. And I read that Irvin confessed to both shooting AND stabbing West? I certainly hope he's rotting in prison.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:37 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseguy182
Somewhat suprisingly, this case doesn't seem to be discussed all that much.

Elsewhere online, I read that Irvin encountered Mikki Jo at a bus stop and she threw the hammer at him. I find this interesting for a couple of reasons:

First, the segment depicts that Irvin caught up with West as she was walking to work. This could just be another re-enactment goof, then on the other hand, maybe Irvin isn't telling the truth. If West did in fact make it as far as the bus stop, I'm guessing there were no eyewitnesses around. I don't know the area at all, but it would seem like there would be other people at the bus stop even at that early hour, or somebody that saw *something*

Second, and as much as it pains me to say this, but if West threw the hammer at him, that may have been significantly riskier than keeping it on hand. Throwing the hammer means you only get one shot and if you miss, your sort of screwed. I don't enjoy typing this, but being that West had rational fears, why didn't someone drive her to work?

I hope for Mikki Jo's sake, she was at least able to get in a good shot on Irvin. I have to wonder if there was any blood evidence in the area. Seems like there would have been some disturbance. And I read that Irvin confessed to both shooting AND stabbing West? I certainly hope he's rotting in prison.
I believe Irvin's account is that he stabbed her as they sat in his car and then shot her twice. I've never heard the throwing the hammer story! If she really did throw it, I can only imagine she did it out of total fear. Rationally, I believe we'd all say we would hold onto that hammer and be ready to use it. But honestly, if a guy who had been threatening to kill me suddenly appeared and no one was around? I might panic, throwing it and running rather than allowing him to get close enough for me to use it.

I also have to wonder why she didn't get a ride, but for all we know she had no one to get one from and thought that being out in public would be safe enough. He also confessed to killing two other women, and I'm wondering if he knew them or if they were strangers to him. I definitely concur with your hope that Micki was able to strike him. Glad he was dumb enough to write those notes because those probably helped get him caught.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:58 AM   #60
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Yeah, I had thought that if she did throw the hammer, she probably made a run for it right afterwards and unfortunately didn't make it.

The two other women thing is interesting and wish we had more information. We know of a motive with Mikki Jo, but don't have a motive with the other 2. The other interesting this is that those 2 women were found, whereas Mikki Jo has never been found.
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