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Old 04-05-2010, 12:00 PM   #91
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Quote:
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You only need to show intelligence as an officer.
That's debatable.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:10 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mastermind
You only need to show intelligence as an officer.

That's debatable.
Sad, but true.

Meg, I think you were the one that told me that it was unlikely that Justin could have become a mercenary.

It is possible though that he could have tried and ran into the wrong people, though?
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:32 PM   #93
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Sad, but true.

Meg, I think you were the one that told me that it was unlikely that Justin could have become a mercenary.

It is possible though that he could have tried and ran into the wrong people, though?
Yes, it's possible, especially if he happened to get in with one of those so-called "militia" type groups--which DO sometimes engage in illegal drug dealing and related crimes, and often attempt to recruit members of the legitimate armed forces. However, I don't see him disappearing under official government watch.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:03 PM   #94
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Let me start by saying that I have very little to add to these posts. I know very little about the military, and even less about mental issues. I can tell you that I was good friends with Justin in high school, and we kept in touch my freshmen year of college, and his 1st year in the military. I still have 4-5 letters written from him at that time.

Justin was a intelligent student. He was never the smartest kid in school, but he was definitely a B student, maybe even an A. He was also very funny and loved to make his friends laugh. Like I said, I know very little about mental illness, but Justin was as normal as can be in high school and I'd be totally shocked if he had mental issues. The letters he sent me (back around '91) were mostly reminiscing about the good old days. They were looking fondly back on good memories.

I don't know if any of that helps your theories or not. I know it's highly doubtful, but I just hope my old friend is alive and well. I regret losing touch with him.
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Old 04-19-2010, 04:17 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by CHS90
Let me start by saying that I have very little to add to these posts. I know very little about the military, and even less about mental issues. I can tell you that I was good friends with Justin in high school, and we kept in touch my freshmen year of college, and his 1st year in the military. I still have 4-5 letters written from him at that time.

Justin was a intelligent student. He was never the smartest kid in school, but he was definitely a B student, maybe even an A. He was also very funny and loved to make his friends laugh. Like I said, I know very little about mental illness, but Justin was as normal as can be in high school and I'd be totally shocked if he had mental issues. The letters he sent me (back around '91) were mostly reminiscing about the good old days. They were looking fondly back on good memories.

I don't know if any of that helps your theories or not. I know it's highly doubtful, but I just hope my old friend is alive and well. I regret losing touch with him.
Thanks so much for taking the time to post on here. I have a few questions if you dont mind answering them.

1. How long after you lost touch with Justin, did all of this "White Sands" stuff start?

2. Was Justin the type of person who liked to put himself into strange situations? The reason I ask this question is the theory has been discussed that he may not have been happy with where his military life was going and wanted more action.
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Old 04-20-2010, 03:58 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Hambone2421
Thanks so much for taking the time to post on here. I have a few questions if you dont mind answering them.

1. How long after you lost touch with Justin, did all of this "White Sands" stuff start?

2. Was Justin the type of person who liked to put himself into strange situations? The reason I ask this question is the theory has been discussed that he may not have been happy with where his military life was going and wanted more action.
1. I don't know when all this "White Sands" stuff happenned. Like I said, the last time I would've heard from him was probably spring '91 (we graduated high school the previous summer).

2. He was just a normal kid. To be honest, I was a little surprised that he joined the military. I thought he'd just end up going to college like the rest of us. But he definitely wasn't someone that was always looking for action or anything like that.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:36 PM   #97
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2. He was just a normal kid. To be honest, I was a little surprised that he joined the military. I thought he'd just end up going to college like the rest of us. But he definitely wasn't someone that was always looking for action or anything like that.
Interesting.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:18 AM   #98
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To my mind ,this case has several potential explainations:

1) Justin Burgwinkel was never involved in any "secret missions",made up the entire scenario and deserted the military when the pressures of military service and his emotional/mental issues became too great.

2) He wasn't involved in any "secret missions" ,and, overwhelmed by personal issues,he decided to commit suicide and then did so.

3) He was involved in some type of Black Ops, but was proving to be too unstable and he was removed by the people running the ops.

4) He was involved in some type of Black Ops, but it proved to be too much of a strain and he fled both the ops and the Army.

5) He was involved in Black Ops,but the strain was too great and he committed suicide as a result.

Personally,I lean towards the scenarios where he faked the entire thing and then he either fled the area or he committed suicide.
Why?
While I have seen and heard of, secretive groups using "cut-outs" like Burgwinkel for covert operations,most of the time those cut-outs are at least competent in some aspect of covert ops.Burgwinkel was shown as being an incompetent soldier who was unable to even keep "secrets" from his girlfriend at the time.

The briefacse thing and telling his girlfriend about the movie White Sands should be enough to convince most that this man has/had an active fantasy life or was deeply disturbed.
Or both.

Hopefully if Burgwinkel is still alive,he'll receive the intensive psychological counseling that it seems he desperately needs.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:24 PM   #99
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I just watched this again and I'm going to have to go with the majority here. I don't think Burgwinkel was involved in any covert operations for the government. However, I do think he was unhappy with the direction his life was going and his fledgling dreams of becoming a Ranger yet basically being demoted to a cook.

I believe he got involved with some illegal activities, such as dealing in drugs or stolen property.

The fact that his girlfriend received a phone call from an unidentified male who told her "the mission is off" suggests that at least someone else was involved with Burgwinkle and his activities during his last days before his disappearance and, in my mind, rules out the theory that this was all in his head. If Burgwinkle made the call himself, I'm sure she would have recognized his voice. If he had a friend do it as some sort of joke, or to further this game he was playing, why hasn't this person since surfaced?

In the end, I think he got in over his head in whatever illegal activities he was engaged in. Perhaps he went to confront someone or make a dropoff or attempt a deal that he knew was especially dangerous. I think he bought the guns and ammo in preparation for this encounter. Again, if he was some sort of operative, I'm sure he wouldn't have purchased the guns himself in such a manner that the purchase was so easily traced. The fact that he left his dog tags behind is a clue and an indicator that he probably knew his chances of surviving whatever he was setting off to accomplish weren't favorable.

Just my $0.02.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:42 PM   #100
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If Justin had a friend call his girlfriend with that "mission's off" message, the only reasons I can come up with for this person not coming forward is that maybe he was drunk/high and doesn't really remember the incident clearly.

Since this is a missing person's case, maybe he's afraid of being involved thinking that suspicions could be cast on him.

Maybe he was involved in the same kind of illegal activities Justin was (assuming this is what was going on) and didn't want this to be investigated, which could have happened if he came forward to admit that he made the phone call.

Or, maybe he's directly involved in the disappearance or even murder of Justin. If that's the case, he definitely wouldn't want to admit to the call and bring on an investigation.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:57 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
I just watched this again and I'm going to have to go with the majority here. I don't think Burgwinkel was involved in any covert operations for the government. However, I do think he was unhappy with the direction his life was going and his fledgling dreams of becoming a Ranger yet basically being demoted to a cook.
It's been a long time since I've seen the segment, but I don't remember Burgwinkel's military occupational specialty ever being mentioned. He could've been anything, although it's impossible to make a good guess based on his short length of time in service and the installations he'd been stationed at (they're rather ambiguous). I do find it interesting that he was at Ft Ord, as that's where the Defense Language Institute is located--he was a student there perhaps?


In the Army one doesn't "demote" to less-than-favorable positions as punishment (although enlisted soldiers can be officially "busted down" in rank). I can't remember if that's what was implied in the segment, but if it was, that's incorrect. Your MOS is determined before you even go to basic training. If you go in knowing you're going to be an intelligence analyst or an infantryman, you come out an intel analyst or infantryman and stay that way, unless you choose to switch specialties (and your petition is approved, and you complete the proper education). You're never "reduced" to another specialty.

However, given the Army was still doing the whole KP duty thing in the '90s (government civilians handle 90% of food services in garrison now), Burgwinkel could've been in the kitchen because it was an assigned additional duty (that everyone had to share in), or he had committed some minor offense and that was the retribution his commanding officer decided was appropriate. Which begs an interesting question--was Burgwinkel being punished? If so, what for?


Today, Burwinkel's aspirations of becoming a Ranger would've been even less remote (assuming he wasn't an 11B). The school is only open to those in the Infantry now.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:55 PM   #102
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hi ,

did you know that the name burgwinkel is a verry common name in my country ?
it could be possible he is in The Netherlands ..... for instance with rellatives .They wont find him here :P

and even there is a little information to find about this case but its in dutch (because of his lastname the dutch government got involved!!!the secret investigating service called AIVD :Algemene Inlichtingen en Veiligheidsdienst ! google it!!( Dutch equivailant of the FBI/CIA))!!! if you want me to i can translate and post it on this forum?

oyeah and his lastname burgwinkel is an old dutch word for Cafe or bar burg = bar and winkel=store these combined is barstore and the easy word for it is just bar or cafe and it means his ancestors had allot of cafes and bars in the metropolitan area of Amsterdam around the year 1800 and up

Francis Joseph
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:41 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
It's been a long time since I've seen the segment, but I don't remember Burgwinkel's military occupational specialty ever being mentioned. He could've been anything, although it's impossible to make a good guess based on his short length of time in service and the installations he'd been stationed at (they're rather ambiguous). I do find it interesting that he was at Ft Ord, as that's where the Defense Language Institute is located--he was a student there perhaps?
they made it pretty clear in the segment that he was training to become an army ranger but was caught shoplifting and then demoted to working as a cook/food preparer in a mess hall.
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:58 PM   #104
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they made it pretty clear in the segment that he was training to become an army ranger but was caught shoplifting and then demoted to working as a cook/food preparer in a mess hall.
You don't "demote" to different MOS's. You demote in rank. Burgwinkel would have been designated as a cook before he even began his basic training.

Again:

Quote:
In the Army one doesn't "demote" to less-than-favorable positions as punishment (although enlisted soldiers can be officially "busted down" in rank). I can't remember if that's what was implied in the segment, but if it was, that's incorrect. Your MOS is determined before you even go to basic training. If you go in knowing you're going to be an intelligence analyst or an infantryman, you come out an intel analyst or infantryman and stay that way, unless you choose to switch specialties (and your petition is approved, and you complete the proper education). You're never "reduced" to another specialty.

However, given the Army was still doing the whole KP duty thing in the '90s (government civilians handle 90% of food services in garrison now), Burgwinkel could've been in the kitchen because it was an assigned additional duty (that everyone had to share in), or he had committed some minor offense and that was the retribution his commanding officer decided was appropriate. Which begs an interesting question--was Burgwinkel being punished? If so, what for?
If he were "training to become an Army Ranger", he definitely wouldn't have had any time, nor opportunity to shoplift while in Ranger School--which is (and was at the time) only given at Ft Benning, Georgia--not Ft Ord.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:27 PM   #105
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just watched this segment after it aired like 5 minutes ago on lifetime. this **** is scary


And WTF @ the DoD searching up his name in 2003. This just makes this case all the more cryptic. And curiously, there's absolutely nothing on him on the internet.

What are they trying to hide?
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