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Old 08-01-2003, 01:45 AM   #16
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Originally posted by bb25
Have you ever read The Other Side of Ethel Mertz? I really don't care if most of the stuff in the book isn't the absolute dead-on truth because some people actually took the time to write and collaborate and put effort into a biography on one of the most unsung character actors ever. Vivian Vance was wonderful, and up until then, she was just known as frousy Ethel. That's all people remember her for. Well this book portrays just a normal human being. A kind, loving, funny, spicy, scandalous, human, woman. Not just a one dimensional person with a one-dimensional life that doesn't need a book. Sure, the authors may have left out some things, but what's in there I'm sure Viv would be fine with. Why am I so passionate about this? Well, for a time I though Ethel was better than Lucy. When I told people this they thought I was nuts, but really, even at a younger age, I could tell that she was not just a simple co-star in a popular show. I've come to realize now that Lucy deserved to be and fit the "Star" quota, and she is definitely my favorite, and the driving force between the two, but you can't deny the fact Lucy wouldn't be Lucy without Ethel or Viv by her side...anyway, I'll take what these hard-working authors give the public, because it's basically all there really is, unless you know Lucie & Desi Jr. Arnaz personally, or any of Lucy's living co-stars, I really don't think anyone can know the WHOLE truth, and maybe not even then would everything be revealed...
No, I've never read this particular book, the reason I asked your opinion what you thought of it.

I understand your feelings for Vivian, I'm not saying she doesn't deserve a book, I'm just expressing my opinion on the way some authors portray the topics of their book (Whether the topic is Lucy, Viv, or whoever). Viv's story, should be told, but Vivian, along with her fans deserve a truthful recount of her life. Not some 200 page, inaccurate piece of crap, because the writers are trying to fill the "gossip" quota. I'm not saying that's what "The Other Side of Ethel Mertz" is, because, as I’ve said, I've never read the book. In asking you about your opinions Viv's bio, I just included my opinion on some of the bio's I've read, where sometimes the author cares more about the total number of books sold, than presenting a factual story.
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Old 08-01-2003, 02:06 AM   #17
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Well, you can't judge a book by it's cover, so until you read it, don't just go writing it off as just a bunch of bogus crap...it's not fair. Sorry if I'm coming across as rude, but like I said, it's all there really is, and IMO the book is factual...
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Old 08-01-2003, 04:48 AM   #18
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LOL, we're having a communication problem here.

I'm not calling the book “crap”...Or judging it in any type of way.

I guess I'm not doing a good job explaining myself. I'm commenting on other bios I've read, not this particular bio. What I'm trying to say is sometimes authors care more about selling a book than presenting a factual account of an individuals life.


"Viv's story, should be told, but Vivian, along with her fans deserve a truthful recount of her life. Not some 200 page, inaccurate piece of crap, because the writers are trying to fill the "gossip" quota. I'm not saying that's what "The Other Side of Ethel Mertz" is, because, as I’ve said, I've never read the book."

Here, I'm using Viv bio as an example only...I'm not calling the book "crap". What I'm trying to say is, yes, Vivian's life story should be told, but if it's not really the truth then what point is there for the book? If it's all lies anyway, then what purpose does the book serve? Other than lining the pockets of the writer, and his/her publisher, with money.

But again, I'm only using Viv's bio as an example because we are chatting about that particular bio at the moment. Those were comments were meant in reference to all Bio's.

Basically, I asked you about your opinion of Viv's bio (which I can obviously see that you really love) and included my personal opinion of other Bios I've read as well, but those comments were separate from those I included about Viv's bio.


LOL, that doesn't make any sense, does it?


Long story short....I didn't call "The Other Side Of Ethel Mertz" 'crap'. That was not the intention of my comments.
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Old 08-02-2003, 01:23 AM   #19
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Yes, I realize you weren't calling it crap, but it seemed at the time that you were just writing the book off as bogus. It's really not. I do believe that both authors of the book had good intentions, and were not out just to make money. I understand where you're coming from as far as Lucy bio's. They're pretty much a dime a dozen, and it's easy for people to just fabricate juicy gossip to sell. Well, I truly believe that was not the case with Viv's bio. It's one of a kind, and when you read it you can tell it's truthful. Now if these author's just wanted to cash in on Lucy's life and write untruthful content, they easily could have, but it seems that these 2 really appreciate Viv as much as I do and weren't just out for a buck...I really suggest that you read the book. They have it out in mass-market paperback now for $7.50 and it's worth every cent. It even has some rare photos...
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Old 08-02-2003, 02:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Yes, I realize you weren't calling it crap, but it seemed at the time that you were just writing the book off as bogus. It's really not. I do believe that both authors of the book had good intentions, and were not out just to make money. I understand where you're coming from as far as Lucy bio's. They're pretty much a dime a dozen, and it's easy for people to just fabricate juicy gossip to sell. Well, I truly believe that was not the case with Viv's bio. It's one of a kind, and when you read it you can tell it's truthful. Now if these author's just wanted to cash in on Lucy's life and write untruthful content, they easily could have, but it seems that these 2 really appreciate Viv as much as I do and weren't just out for a buck...I really suggest that you read the book. They have it out in mass-market paperback now for $7.50 and it's worth every cent. It even has some rare photos...
I'll probably pick it up whenever I go to the bookstore again. Well I'll read it, don't know if I'll buy it. Let you know what I think.

And no I wasn't writing the book off either.
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Old 08-25-2003, 02:50 AM   #21
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In a scene reminiscent of the one in "Ricky's Movie offer" where Lucy knocked out the talent scout, then she and Ethel try to sit him up before he regains consciousness, in "Lucy and Chuck Conners Have a Slumber Party" (one of the last HL episodes) Lucy is unaware Connors is in her bed. When she discovers him there, she thinks he's an intruder and knocks him out and onto the floor. After learning the truth of who he is, before he regains consciousness, she tries to hoist his large body back into bed using a bed sheet, a bed post, and her own strength. This is a very hilarious physical scene written by Bob Carroll, Jr. and Madelyn Davis and perfectly performed by Lucille Ball.
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Old 08-25-2003, 03:12 AM   #22
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About the Viv bio, my problem with that book is that the writers would find some anecdote about Lucy and Viv, then try to use that and exploit it as a basis for explaining their entire relationship. For example, there was some bit about Vivian mocking a birthday present that Lucy had given her during the "Lucy Show" years and inferring she was cheap. From that little story, the writers went on to develop this theory that Viv never cared much for Lucy. To me, that was ridiculous. You can take any relationship in the world and find times where there is some sort of anger or conflict going on. And the bad stuff that comes up during those periods are what outsiders tend to remember. The person who the writers got this story from might have just encounterd Viv on a particularly bad day.

If you focus on a single incident that happened during one of those bad periods in a relationship, it could surely look like the two parties involved do not like one another. But if you look at the entirety of their relationship, a very different perspective may emerge. I know for sure there have been times when I've been angry at some of my best friends and I've complained to other people who were willing to listen about gripes I was having with my friends. The person I complained to might have gone away with the impression I didn't care for that particular friend, though that certainly wouldn't have been the case. Just a bad day.

Madelyn Davis, Lucie Arnaz, and others who knew Lucille and Vivian have described their relationship as being like that of sisters. They had there conflicts at times, got angry at one another occasionally, but in the end they had a close bond. I would rely more on the opinions of people who knew Lucille and Vivian and witnessed their relationship than on two writers who never even met either of them. I think those writers should have done a lot more research before delving into trying to explain such a complex relationship.
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
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After learning the truth of who he is, before he regains consciousness, she tries to hoist his large body back into bed using a bed sheet, a bed post, and her own strength. This is a very hilarious physical scene written by Bob Carroll, Jr. and Madelyn Davis and perfectly performed by Lucille Ball.
I'm in hysterics just trying to picture it! I must see this episode! Thanks for the little tidbit NCVARick!
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Old 08-26-2003, 02:15 AM   #24
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I'm in hysterics just trying to picture it! I must see this episode! Thanks for the little tidbit NCVARick!
I must say this is a great scene, and Gale Gordon also had some great lines when Lucy kept interrupting his sleep with late night phone calls. There was also another funny scene with Lucy and Chuck in the house at the same time, neither knowing the other was there. Chuck kept cutting himself a piece of cake, Lucy kept cleaning up before he got a chance to eat it. The disappearing, reappearing cake made both of them think they were going crazy. Great, solid episode.
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Old 08-27-2003, 01:27 AM   #25
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Have you read Viv's bio in its entirety? I have, and while it may mention some particular bad moments, I have not found that it goes on to harp about them as you said. I believe it does portray all the sides of their friendship, from Lucy's scrutinization of Viv in the early days, to Viv's ridicule of Lucy's "cheap" gifts, to their last visit together, to Viv's last letter to Lucy written on her deathbed. I don't know, I just get the impression that people are still being unfair about this book, and just want everything written about this subject to be on a positive note. I mean, yes, they were human and obviously had to have had their fair share of arguments, as well as closeness, and I think you'd have to be immature to believe only what a particular author has to say about them. You don't need a book to see the closeness between Lucille & Vivian. Just watch an episode of one of the many shows they did together. Two people working in that capacity simply could not have been at odds all the time or enemies, or the shows just wouldn't have happened...the book may be negative at some points but it does say that Lucy & Viv were best friends, and I wholeheartedly believe that...

Watch the first scene in "Viv Visits Lucy" from The Lucy Show. That isn't acting.
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