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Old 02-21-2007, 08:17 AM   #16
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Wow! It's getting really wild over at that other site. Maybe the cops will break this this case. More than one van and many colors. Even serial killers now.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:04 PM   #17
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There is a report that KY3 out of Springfiled is going to have a program tonight abot this case.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior
There is a report that KY3 out of Springfiled is going to have a program tonight abot this case.
I found it on their website:

http://www.ky3.com/news/5993786.html

"Investigator Kathee Baird wishes she could give McCall the happy ending she hopes for. Last spring, Baird says she found evidence the women are buried under a parking garage near Cox South Hospital. Psychics and tipsters kept telling Baird to look for the women in concrete.

"I went back and researched projects that were going on in and around that time and kept coming back to the parking garage on Bradford Parkway,” said Baird.

Baird provided KY3 News with video of a ground penetrating radar scan of the parking garage. The man ran the radar, Rick Norland, is a consulting engineer who worked at Ground Zero in New York City and on the Panama Canal. Norland says his machine picked up three distinct objects below the concrete.

"It’s very similar to what we see when we're over old graves," said Norland.

Baird took the video to investigators.

"We were told, on this lead, there was technology in use that had shown bodies underground,” said Springfield Police Sgt. Mike Owen.

<snip>

Acting on past tips over the years, police dug in two different places in Webster County and a place in Barry County. Until they dig in the parking garage, Baird says she won't be satisfied.

"We do know they dug in Barry County, and there was nothing there, on a tip. Did it take a year to dig? I don't think so," she said.

Police say they've spent months on this lead. They've met with the Greene County prosecuting attorney’s office and CoxHealth officials. They even got an opinion from an expert on ground penetrating radar.

"It would be impossible to see what this man claims he has seen,” said Owen.

Police say they've followed the lead as far as they can and have no plans to dig at the parking garage but Baird isn't giving up.

"The only way I think I'm going to get anything done is to go public. I've played by their rules for a long time,” said Baird.

If police don't think a dig is necessary, McCall says she agrees. She's spent the last 15 years listening to theories and tips that don't pan out. More than 100 psychics have contacted her.

“They say they're either alive or dead. Well, yeah, they're going to be one of those things,” she said.
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Old 02-23-2007, 04:54 AM   #19
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I just watched the two videos at the bottom of that link. My compliments to the police for not wasting time digging up the garage. In a case like this you need evidence that points to a specific suspect(s) first, then search their property. There are countless examples of that, like the Lisa Marie Kimmell case. When you do it in reverse it's a wild stab, like I mentioned in another thread recently about people on message boards like webslueths who come up with homemade suspects.
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Old 02-23-2007, 01:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger
I just watched the two videos at the bottom of that link. My compliments to the police for not wasting time digging up the garage. In a case like this you need evidence that points to a specific suspect(s) first, then search their property. There are countless examples of that, like the Lisa Marie Kimmell case. When you do it in reverse it's a wild stab, like I mentioned in another thread recently about people on message boards like webslueths who come up with homemade suspects.
I would be careful not to pronounce this case over. There are actual suspects that the police have specific knowledge. And the parking lot situation is far from over. I don't believe in psychics either, but there is more to the story than this; much more.
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Old 02-23-2007, 06:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior
I would be careful not to pronounce this case over. There are actual suspects that the police have specific knowledge. And the parking lot situation is far from over. I don't believe in psychics either, but there is more to the story than this; much more.
I wasn't pronouncing it over. I was surprised to read a grand jury had been used at one point, with three specific individuals in mind.

But I was wildly unimpressed with the parking garage video and the questions asked by the woman pushing that idea. In the other video the law enforcement guy said his experts indicate the parking garage scanning does not show what the proponents indicate it does.

There is apparently a one year lag between the disappearance and when that parking structure was built.
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Old 02-23-2007, 07:51 PM   #22
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I sampled the recent posts on the websleuths thread. I like the real-world perspective of the poster named miles draken. But one prominent poster over there seems mostly livid that police haven't fallen over in singleminded pursuit of a tip he provided, a sighting of a van. Last I heard the world has several vans.

The site linked to over there is basically weird. I looked at all the psychic-based drawings and decided I'd read all 700+ entries in the guestbook and not prejudge, but then the fourth entry, from November 2004, says this:

"I personally believe that God has chosen this case to showcase His power. When this case breaks, it will be because of divine intervention. I believe that this will be something that will impact the entire planet, not just Springfield, Missouri. There are millions upon millions of missing people all over the world. The question is how long is God going to allow this to continue? The people that commit these crimes haven't realized that they can't hide what they did from God. I personally believe that God has chosen this one special story to demonstrate that nothing can be hidden from Him. I have had the privilege of experiencing two visions. One of them was from the Avesta and the other one was with one of the three missing women. At this point, I am waiting for the storybook finish. I may be going off on a limb here, but I have reason to believe that this will occur sometime during the next 17 months. I'm just waiting really."

Then another, a few months later:

"On August 13th, 2004, the first of four hurricanes slammed into Florida and when they did, they numerically spelled out Mr. McCall's birthdate of 4- 2-43. Charley was a 4, Frances was a 2, Ivan was a 4, and Jeanne was a 3. This numerically spelled out 4-2-4-3 and it was a perfect match. This event started 8 years, 4 months, and 3 days after I experienced my vision from the Avesta/Koran. What is the significance of 8-4-3? Well, it was the address the McCall's lived at when Stacy disappeared. This was the theme for my eleventh letter to Robert Cox. When I recently wrote Robert, I described to him that it's possible that he could have been responsible for the hurricanes in Florida via the Butterfly Effect."

OK, I realize I shouldn't judge a website and guestbook by a few posts near the beginning, but at this point it has exceeded my expectation toward the looney, which was darn near impossible. I need a break before continuing.
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Old 02-23-2007, 10:48 PM   #23
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I guess that was the same nut Ken with those posts I just pasted. He was posting under a slightly different name at the beginning. The posts get more relevant once it gets to the beginning of this year. The poster named Nettie Lawson asks some good questions.

http://www.airalex.com/~site/scripts...H_P=&H_A=&H_V=
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Old 02-24-2007, 01:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger
I guess that was the same nut Ken with those posts I just pasted. He was posting under a slightly different name at the beginning. The posts get more relevant once it gets to the beginning of this year. The poster named Nettie Lawson asks some good questions.

http://www.airalex.com/~site/scripts...H_P=&H_A=&H_V=
I don't wish to disabuse you of your beliefs but there is a bit more to this story than meets the eye. And I know a good deal more than most people do about this case. I know about all the major players in this tragedy and know several facts not commonly published. Do not assume that the dig isn't being done because the police do not subscribe to the possibility that something is there. I think it is entirely possible that animal bones are located there and may (I emphasize may) have been placed there intentionally. If you have a true interest in this crime spend some time over at Alex's site and read some of the posts carefully and feel free to chime in. You may be surprised with what you will learn. And go back to the #12 post at Websleuths and read it carefully. Tell me what you see.
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:15 AM   #25
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OK, I'll play. Here's Cursiorandcursior on February 18th, this same thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior
What is that case about. sounds interesting. Psychcs?
Now on February 23rd:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior
I don't wish to disabuse you of your beliefs but there is a bit more to this story than meets the eye. And I know a good deal more than most people do about this case. I know about all the major players in this tragedy and know several facts not commonly published. Do not assume that the dig isn't being done because the police do not subscribe to the possibility that something is there. I think it is entirely possible that animal bones are located there and may (I emphasize may) have been placed there intentionally. If you have a true interest in this crime spend some time over at Alex's site and read some of the posts carefully and feel free to chime in. You may be surprised with what you will learn. And go back to the #12 post at Websleuths and read it carefully. Tell me what you see.
Now that's a quick study.

I suppose you could claim you were merely fishing in your first post, to gauge interest level and knowledge. Even if true, unimpressive. And hardly the type of thing that would make me accept any so-called inside info as legit or meaningful.

I'll be very blunt. Animal-bones-in-cement-on-purpose is garbage. What possible benefit could that be? What is that, a diversionary tactic by the real abductors. Right. And then 12 or 14 years later they leak the info to throw detectives off track. When there is no track to begin with. That's precisely the reason I don't get involved with bizarre sites like that. I'd end up using the exact type language that SiberianKiss did at websleuths. And it would be understatement.

Here's what I'd learn at sites like that: internet posters thrill to embrace theories that freefall from any semblance of probability, or appropriate weight. I've already seen that over there, all the talk about grave robbers, and stuff like planting $800 in the purse so it wouldn't look like a robbery.

I don't claim to know anything about that case. There are thousands of possibilities. All I see on those threads is jumping to convenient conclusions, like who the target was. The same predictable guesswork toward specific suspects. One poster seems locked that the abductors had to leave before daybreak. What sense does that make? Everyone is pissed that their pet theory is not the one that police are running with, to the exclusion of everything else. Seems like half the posters survived an attempted abduction in the same time frame and are sure it had to be the same people. If I had to place the exaggeration meter on a wall, I'd be leaping.

The women could have been targeted on the drive away from the party, by someone who never saw them before. Then you've got every color of van described, with theories like changing from one van to another to throw off the hunt. That's where it gets so cute I have to restrain laughter. Crimes like that are very basic. Target, grab and go. The further up the conspiracy/permutation ladder you get the least likely any of it is to be true. Posters there don't seem to get that, although the guy named Richard made some astute comments in that regard.

It doesn't matter when the parking lot theory first surfaced or who proposed it. I'll say there's nothing there and have way the best of it. We've seen underground detection abnormalities like that before, turn into nothing. If it were a sophisticated science you wouldn't have such basic debate and contradiction, a matter of mere feet below the surface.

Bodies in cement in a public place is a spooky snapshot that people love to believe. It's never true. Again, just look at all the risks you are taking and how many people involved, as opposed to burying them on your property or dumping somewhere.

This case has many of the typical and mysterious rumors/variables:

* suspicious van seen driving around the neighborhood for weeks
* drug involvement by at least one of the women, leading to her murder
* pending court case, and a witness eliminated before testifying
* phone call that is cut off abruptly and never called back, but investigators think it was legit and held all the answers
* premises supposedly scrubbed clean of any incriminating evidence

I'd love to wager none of that was true. The van was not involved. The phone call was a kook who hung up. The court case was a minor charge and no one cared. Lots of people do drugs. Lots of people keep their homes abnormally clean.
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Old 02-24-2007, 12:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger
OK, I'll play. Here's Cursiorandcursior on February 18th, this same thread:

Now on February 23rd:

Now that's a quick study.

I suppose you could claim you were merely fishing in your first post, to gauge interest level and knowledge. Even if true, unimpressive. And hardly the type of thing that would make me accept any so-called inside info as legit or meaningful.

I'll be very blunt. Animal-bones-in-cement-on-purpose is garbage. What possible benefit could that be? What is that, a diversionary tactic by the real abductors. Right. And then 12 or 14 years later they leak the info to throw detectives off track. When there is no track to begin with. That's precisely the reason I don't get involved with bizarre sites like that. I'd end up using the exact type language that SiberianKiss did at websleuths. And it would be understatement.

Here's what I'd learn at sites like that: internet posters thrill to embrace theories that freefall from any semblance of probability, or appropriate weight. I've already seen that over there, all the talk about grave robbers, and stuff like planting $800 in the purse so it wouldn't look like a robbery.

I don't claim to know anything about that case. There are thousands of possibilities. All I see on those threads is jumping to convenient conclusions, like who the target was. The same predictable guesswork toward specific suspects. One poster seems locked that the abductors had to leave before daybreak. What sense does that make? Everyone is pissed that their pet theory is not the one that police are running with, to the exclusion of everything else. Seems like half the posters survived an attempted abduction in the same time frame and are sure it had to be the same people. If I had to place the exaggeration meter on a wall, I'd be leaping.

The women could have been targeted on the drive away from the party, by someone who never saw them before. Then you've got every color of van described, with theories like changing from one van to another to throw off the hunt. That's where it gets so cute I have to restrain laughter. Crimes like that are very basic. Target, grab and go. The further up the conspiracy/permutation ladder you get the least likely any of it is to be true. Posters there don't seem to get that, although the guy named Richard made some astute comments in that regard.

It doesn't matter when the parking lot theory first surfaced or who proposed it. I'll say there's nothing there and have way the best of it. We've seen underground detection abnormalities like that before, turn into nothing. If it were a sophisticated science you wouldn't have such basic debate and contradiction, a matter of mere feet below the surface.

Bodies in cement in a public place is a spooky snapshot that people love to believe. It's never true. Again, just look at all the risks you are taking and how many people involved, as opposed to burying them on your property or dumping somewhere.

This case has many of the typical and mysterious rumors/variables:

* suspicious van seen driving around the neighborhood for weeks
* drug involvement by at least one of the women, leading to her murder
* pending court case, and a witness eliminated before testifying
* phone call that is cut off abruptly and never called back, but investigators think it was legit and held all the answers
* premises supposedly scrubbed clean of any incriminating evidence

I'd love to wager none of that was true. The van was not involved. The phone call was a kook who hung up. The court case was a minor charge and no one cared. Lots of people do drugs. Lots of people keep their homes abnormally clean.
You need not get upset. I made an observation of something that I have been tracking for some period of time. BTW, I am "Richard" in the event you are interested. (AKA "Missouri Mule")

You seem like a smart fellow. Join the discussion over at Alex's website. Give your input and ask questions.

I wanted to draw you out because I read your profile and you seem to like to talk about these things. So I wanted to pursue it with you.

I'll give you something to think about. There was a grave robbing and Satanism involved here. That, you won't find in the newspapers. Let's just say a "birdie" told me that who I know if quite reliable.

The reason I dwelt on the timeline so heavily is because if the van was seen at 4:30AM (according to the K.C. Star) and sunrise was scheduled at 5:53 AM, time was absolutely critical. Twilight was starting at 4:01 AM and "civic twilight" was at 5:22 when the van would have been clearly visible. The crime scene was just off Glenstone Avenue which is the main drag of Springfield. That just leaves 52 minutes to move the cars, pull the van in to the porch, enter, subdue and leave with the women. And it is further argued since some $800 was left behind in Sherrill's purse that they didn't even bother to check for cash on hand.

There was an immediate motive which was covered in the "48 hour" piece from 1992 and repeated in 1997. You can even purchase the tape through CBS productions if you are interested.

Yes, I was fishing. I happened onto this site when I was doing a google of one of the posters here who happened to PM me from Websleuths. You, I don't know. But you seem like you might be useful so I tempted you and you took the bait so to speak. If you want to use your brainpower on this join us over at Alex's place and put in your $0.02, like "Richard" (me) is doing.

Just to clear up the $800 in the purse matter. The reason I posited that theory is because at the time I didn't know who the two best detectives had keyed on. It was at the point that I learned who they believed was involved that I realized my original theory was weak and I moved onto the logical sequence of events and why I started to look closely at the timeline. I was looking to motive. With the information I learned about the detective's beliefs it became much clearer what likely took place. I don't believe the grave robbers actually did the crime. However, I do believe that some people who were associated with them did. And it very likely included drugs or someone playing with "Dungeons and Dragons" of which we know from past history has led to murder which I'm sure you were aware. In any event you can argue with me all you want to either at Websleuths or at Alex's site. I welcome you.

BTW, I don't believe there is any real doubt as to the van being involved. The questions would be were there more than one involved and what were the colors? The police didn't park that replica van in front of the SPD for almost four months for nothing.
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:35 PM   #27
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This Case Is Drug Related And Thats Why All Three Of Them Were Killed. Period
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Old 03-02-2007, 06:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
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This Case Is Drug Related And Thats Why All Three Of Them Were Killed. Period
That's not accurate.
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Old 03-09-2007, 02:38 PM   #29
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We have been discussing the abduction of Angela Hammond on another board and I was wondering if any of you think these cases could be linked. We now have 5 woman being abduted in a years span, one from Macks Creek another from Nevada, Angela from Clinton and then the three from Springfield. These cases all seem very similar, young attractive woman taken at night and never seen again. I just think its odd we have all these abductions in southern Missouri in this time span and no one in law enforcement sees the connection.
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Old 03-10-2007, 02:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
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We have been discussing the abduction of Angela Hammond on another board and I was wondering if any of you think these cases could be linked. We now have 5 woman being abduted in a years span, one from Macks Creek another from Nevada, Angela from Clinton and then the three from Springfield. These cases all seem very similar, young attractive woman taken at night and never seen again. I just think its odd we have all these abductions in southern Missouri in this time span and no one in law enforcement sees the connection.
In my view the Springfield women are not related. I am somewhat familiar with those cases but I haven't studied them in some period of time. This particular case has less than meets the eye and should have been solved many years ago. It was primarily an incompetent police investigation. They didn't follow the leads they had and it was just a horribly botched investigation.
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