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Old 10-13-2012, 01:05 PM   #256
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I don't think his parent wanted to accept the fact Kurt hung out with the wrong crowd that night where it would lead to his death from drinking to much. The guy was obvious alight weight, so the people at the party made his death look like he was murdered.

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Old 10-13-2012, 11:20 PM   #257
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The problem is, alcohol poisoning should have been very easy for the coroner to spot. Also, Kurt would probably have vomited frequently and there would have been traces of that. The basement cot area would either have smelled of vomit or strongly of cleaning supplies. But if the alcohol had some other impact on him that maybe was more rare, I could see them not being able to determine it.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:04 AM   #258
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This has been a great thread! I was a huge fan of Unsolved Mysteries, especially unexplained episodes.

I feel the pain for the Sova family, especially the parents that are now deceased. It is my understanding there were 3 other siblings and it would be nice to know what there take is on their brother death. The siblings were not mention in the episode.

The coroner's interview was interesting as he said they determine cause of death by eliminating assault, drugs, etc.

I am also surprised that a night watchman and/or security guard at the plant would not have seen something

Secondly, harvard looks like a busy street, so why did no drivers/passer bys come forward.

Thirdly, there are people in the community that know what happen, but have decided to stay silence. I think it would be good if these unexplained deaths episodes could be done again with host like david caruso. You could call it unexplained/cold cases and employ former detectives/fbi/forensic personnel to review these cases!
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:17 PM   #259
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The problem is, alcohol poisoning should have been very easy for the coroner to spot. Also, Kurt would probably have vomited frequently and there would have been traces of that. The basement cot area would either have smelled of vomit or strongly of cleaning supplies. But if the alcohol had some other impact on him that maybe was more rare, I could see them not being able to determine it.

It seems like it would be more difficult to spot if he didn't die from it right away, which seems to be what happened (IMO).

He might have vomited upstairs (that part of what Samuel Carroll and others there apparently stated might actually be true) and then just passed out/fell unconscious all of the sudden shortly afterwards up there, which would explain why they would take him down to the basement area, hence there being no vomit down there with him passed out and/or unconscious.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:35 PM   #260
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It seems like it would be more difficult to spot if he didn't die from it right away, which seems to be what happened (IMO).

He might have vomited upstairs (that part of what Samuel Carroll and others there apparently stated might actually be true) and then just passed out/fell unconscious all of the sudden shortly afterwards up there, which would explain why they would take him down to the basement area, hence there being no vomit down there with him passed out and/or unconscious.
If he had alcohol poisoning then he would have been vomiting and/or passed out. I have had friends of mine that drank too much and had to have their stomach pumped.

The problem with this case there is lot of unknown, especially time of death. Time of death is not exact science it is estimate. Doctors/examiners have gotten better with technology, but that was not there at the time Sova's death.

Sova was 17th years of age and this was the early 1980s when rock music, drinking, dope smoking, etc were very popular with kids. The fact that Sova had purchased everclear and had been drinking it is entirely possible that he was already drunk and then push it at the party.

The conflicting story is about Sova being outside and his friend going in the house for the jacket. I have help friends and that were drunk and they can become disorientated and/or impatience. It could be that Sova walk away and someone picked him up. Sova's friend looked for him and then made the assumption that he made it home.

Sova's friend that seen him days afterwards get into a van is another intriguing scenario, which also impacts on the timeline. Was that Sova getting into a van?

Newburgh Heights PD also needs to take some responsibility for not sealing off the crime scene and/or accepting help from other police forces. It is apparent the investigating officer may not have done much due diligence and was to easy to sweep it under the table, especially that Kurt had long-hair and/or features that made it worth not investigating. The police department should have secure more evidence, including searching of the house to rule out foul play.

It could be entirely accidental and that is what the on the surface Sova's death appears to be, but it could also be improperly disposing of a body. I am surprised after 31+ years no one has slipped up about the crime, i.e. drinking at a bar and/or party and/or on social media about what happen.

If Sova's parents have passed on then it is all possible that Kurt met them at Heavens Gate and told them what had happen to him and to welcome his parents home!!
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:50 AM   #261
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"The conflicting story is about Sova being outside and his friend going in the house for the jacket. I have help friends and that were drunk and they can become disorientated and/or impatience. It could be that Sova walk away and someone picked him up. Sova's friend looked for him and then made the assumption that he made it home."


I think the friend made that story up to cover his own a**, as well as the people that lived at that duplex at the time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one (or more) of them might have even coached him (Samuel Carroll, the guy Kurt supposedly walked to the party with, was the one whom told that anecdote) into always saying that if anyone would ever ask him what happened to Kurt.


"Sova's friend that seen him days afterwards get into a van is another intriguing scenario, which also impacts on the timeline. Was that Sova getting into a van?"


That guy didn't strike me as a close friend of Kurt's. He seemed considerably older than Kurt and was probably just a longtime neighborhood acquaintance of his. Newburgh Heights/the Slavic Village is just a small little section of Cleveland, Ohio. Anyway, I think he was wrong in his "sighting" of Kurt. If you watch a lot of UM segments, you'll notice that "eyewitnesses" turn out to be mistaken more often than not.


"Newburgh Heights PD also needs to take some responsibility for not sealing off the crime scene and/or accepting help from other police forces."


I agree. If there was some way his parents could have gotten a larger Cleveland PD to work on the case soon after they declared him missing, they probably would have had someone that would have interrogated those people at the duplex and the "crazy/wacko from Detroit" (who might have been someone at the duplex of the night in question).


"It is apparent the investigating officer may not have done much due diligence and was to easy to sweep it under the table, especially that Kurt had long-hair....."


A lot of young guys had long or shaggy hair in that time period. It was more of a norm for that age range in the United States in the '70's and most of the '80's.


".....and/or features that made it worth not investigating."

???


"The police department should have secure more evidence, including searching of the house to rule out foul play."

exactly

The NHPD didn't do their job the way it's supposed to be done, plain and simple.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:00 PM   #262
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Quote:
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Sova's friend that seen him days afterwards get into a van is another intriguing scenario, which also impacts on the timeline. Was that Sova getting into a van?
I honestly think that Kurt's friend was mistaken. I think he saw someone similar looking to Kurt getting into the van with "Franco". Or he may have just remembered the wrong date.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:07 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickolas086
I don't think his parent wanted to accept the fact Kurt hung out with the wrong crowd that night where it would lead to his death from drinking to much. The guy was obvious alight weight, so the people at the party made his death look like he was murdered. Who knows maybe the killer was at the party the whole time he saw that Kurt was alone with no friends decided he would make the perfect victim.
We've seen parents on UM segments before that seemed to be in denial but I never got that feeling from Kurt's parents. Dorothy Sova said herself in the segment that...

1. Kurt was most likely drinking alcohol at that party.

2. He died that night (or shortly later), and the people in that duplex panicked and dumped his body when they realized he was dead.

Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't see how the Sovas are not accepting what seems to be the truth in this case. Dorothy seemed right on in her theories. She just wanted answers over who exactly put him in the ravine, what exactly happened at the party and why the hell was there no answer on the autopsy? She had the main points down, she just needed the dots in between to be connected.

I've often wondered what would have happened had a competent police officer or investigator been able to prove that Kurt died at the duplex that night. What exactly would have happened to Susan? Would she have been fined or given any jail time for serving alcohol to minors? I'm not even sure what the penalty is of doing that today much less 1981. I'm sure the Sovas could have sued her but I doubt she could have had murder charges filed against her.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:16 PM   #264
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Quote:
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I am also surprised that a night watchman and/or security guard at the plant would not have seen something
Looking at pictures of the J.L. Goodman furniture plant, it looks like it has been closed down for a long time. It may have even been closed down in 1981 as well. But regardless, you wouldn't need a night watchman because Kurt's body was dumped in the ravine in the middle of the afternoon, according to the sighting from the local neighbor.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #265
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Looking at pictures of the J.L. Goodman furniture plant, it looks like it has been closed down for a long time. It may have even been closed down in 1981 as well. But regardless, you wouldn't need a night watchman because Kurt's body was dumped in the ravine in the middle of the afternoon, according to the sighting from the local neighbor.
Thanks!

I thought that about the warehouse as well that it was vacate, but sometimes vacant plants have night watchmen to protect sites from vandals, homeless, etc

I did google map search as i have been intrigue by this case. I notice the area surrounding the duplex is manufacturing. There would a lot of activity, especially friday night with shift changes and/or traffic. I am sure people seen something, but either did not want to get involved or just swept it off as kids being kids.

It is too bad this case could not be open up, especially now the investigating detective is now in jail. I would like to see another recreation along with using computer technology to look at what may have cause the death. The doctor that did the autopsy only check for a few things and lets face fact the time of death is best estimate. Alcohol takes time to get out of your system, like 24 hrs.

The unexplained deaths are numerous on the UM wiki and even to this day many have not been solved.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:58 PM   #266
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"I did google map search as i have been intrigue by this case. I notice the area surrounding the duplex is manufacturing. There would a lot of activity, especially friday night with shift changes and/or traffic. I am sure people seen something, but either did not want to get involved or just swept it off as kids being kids."


None of that is an issue if he never left the duplex, which I don't think he did. The jacket story is made up. The only thing I think people outside of the duplex saw were the two guys carrying his body to the ravine.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:35 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W.
"I did google map search as i have been intrigue by this case. I notice the area surrounding the duplex is manufacturing. There would a lot of activity, especially friday night with shift changes and/or traffic. I am sure people seen something, but either did not want to get involved or just swept it off as kids being kids."


None of that is an issue if he never left the duplex, which I don't think he did. The jacket story is made up. The only thing I think people outside of the duplex saw were the two guys carrying his body to the ravine.
Hi Steve, I am glad to see you have the passion to keep this thread active! I was huge fan of UM and episodes like Kurt Sova still intrigue me to this day. I agree with what many people say that Kurt probably died from alcohol poisoning or undisclosed medical conditions. The party goers got rid of his body as they panic. The police themselves did not do enough or in many cases asked for help to break down what happen to Kurt. We can debate all aspects of the case, but the reality is that we may never know the truth on what really happen that night. It is has been over 30 years now since Kurt died, which makes most people in their 50s now and in some cases people have passed on.

There are some other cases that are still showing as unsolved on UM's wiki. I think networks could make money bringing UM back to air or new show that looks at unsolved crimes/unexplained deaths. We have technology now that could help crack cases that was not there as much as 10 years ago!
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:39 AM   #268
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Has the possibility of an undisclosed/undiagnosed illness been discussed? Perhaps he had some sort of previously undiscovered medical problem, like a heart condition, that killed him somehow and then the partygoers freaked thinking they did something and put his body in the ravine.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:00 AM   #269
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Has the possibility of an undisclosed/undiagnosed illness been discussed? Perhaps he had some sort of previously undiscovered medical problem, like a heart condition, that killed him somehow and then the partygoers freaked thinking they did something and put his body in the ravine.
I think many scenarios have been discussed at great length. The coroner interview also stated what he checked as part of his examine. There are similar cases like Kurt that are still unexplained as police felt these deaths were accidental due to fact their was no trauma to the body. There were scratches, bruises and/or injuries, but nothing to say he was assaulted/stab/shot.

The problem is that party goers clam up and made a pact not to say anything. In many cases nothing has been said after 30 years, especially with all the social media sites.

The segment was more about the family wanting closure and i could understand they wanted to know what happen to their son. The problem was the police could not be convinced that this was more then accident. Yes, the newburgh heights police botch the investigation by not doing enough or even asking for help. However, there is very little evidence to go on as the file was quite empty. Neither the cot was examine nor was the shoe ever found.

We can all map out some of Kurt's action up to his death via using the google earth and that is what i did. The area does not look much different as it was working area of cleveland. The duplex looks very similar to what it did 30 years ago.

I still believe that UM should come back on the air and re-branded as way for families to seek out unexplained deaths/unsolved crimes. You could used for FBI Agents, crime scene investigators, PIs, etc and open up files to do recreation including technology to help solve cases!
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:26 PM   #270
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Has the possibility of an undisclosed/undiagnosed illness been discussed? Perhaps he had some sort of previously undiscovered medical problem, like a heart condition, that killed him somehow and then the partygoers freaked thinking they did something and put his body in the ravine.

If that was/is the case, that would explain why the record shop weirdo guy said, "..... and no one is going to know what happened to him", assuming that he might have been someone that had been at that duplex.

I think alcohol definitely contributed to his death, but maybe an undisclosed medical condition (enlarged heart or maybe something like that?) is what made the difference between him having a realistic chance of recovering or not. With that stated, they still likely neglected to get him medical attention when they could have, and that's still a crime.
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