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Old 01-12-2011, 03:32 PM   #181
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Quote:
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Hey I saw the duplex in street view. It hasn't changed at all! I wonder if Susan still lives there?
I just went up and and down the street in google street view and I couldn't find it. What's the address?
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:07 PM   #182
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Quote:
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well they are looking back at us in a spirit form of some sort, they just don't know us and not in our homes thanks god! but yeah his pic kind of creeped me out a little the person who portrayed kurt looked real but the photo was kind of scary it looked like a mask to be honest did you see his lips how big they were? i think it was because i too had a crush on kurt sova but was too young to know what was going on in the case thanks for replying to me
I'm not sure who else you think stated had a crush on him, but it's possible there are other viewers that did.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:29 AM   #183
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Dynoguy, I sent you a PM. On another note, I really dislike speaking ill of the way that people look, especially of those missing or deceased, and I don't think it is necessary. I simply think that picture of Kurt was a school picture, which, in all reality, I bet he hated and wished his parents would have sent out a different picture of him. Honestly, I hated my school pictures but my parents always liked them...case in point. Anyways, I would hate for any of Kurt's family to come on this board and see people writing about his appearance, of all things related to this case. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:44 PM   #184
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I don't think the posters above were necessarily "speaking ill" of Kurt Sova's appearance, though I do agree that that topic is neither relevant nor particularly appropriate.

This is one of those cases that I believe could have been solved had modern-day forensic and toxological tools been available at the time of its occurence. At the very least, a more definite cause of death could likely be determined today, which would have answered many of the lingering questions surrounding the case in and of itself.
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:36 PM   #185
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I just went up and and down the street in google street view and I couldn't find it. What's the address?
It is 2717 harvard
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:02 PM   #186
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More fun with Google Street view.

Here is Susan's duplex on Harvard Avenue in Newburgh Heights.



The fence where Kurt's friend supposedly left him to go back inside and get his jacket is still to the left side of the house.



Just down the street on Harvard Avenue is this old building. It was a J.L. Goodman furniture store at the time of Kurt's death in 1981. Apparently behind this building is the ravine where Kurt's body was found.



It was stated on the UM segment that the duplex and the ravine where Kurt's body was found were just 500 yards apart. This final picture is a street view to give you a better idea of just how short of a distance it is between the two spots. The circle on the left is the house that's right next door to the duplex. The circle on the right is where the ravine is located behind the building.

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Old 01-25-2011, 12:08 AM   #187
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Wow,dynoguy, you've come a long way w/ the street view! haha...what did you use, some snag it program I assume? I have the location for his house that was in the UM segment as well, and the "store/street" where he crosses to meet up w/ his friend. I think we need to make an entire thread about UM locations and images... I have found many others!
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:57 AM   #188
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Thanks dynoguy. It makes a case even more real to a viewer (at least to me anyway) when you can see pics like that of the actual location. It's crazy that all of that stuff is still there after 29 years! But I suppose it was never a wealthy part of town so maybe that's not as surprising as I think it is.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:04 AM   #189
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Oh wow. Are there any building behind that building? Wonder if streetview could get us a better view of the Ravine.

Thanks dynoguy. It's so much easier to get how close they were with visuals.
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:49 PM   #190
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Here's the bad part about this the ravine where Kurt's body was found has been turned into a golf course
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:53 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
More fun with Google Street view.

Here is Susan's duplex on Harvard Avenue in Newburgh Heights.



The fence where Kurt's friend supposedly left him to go back inside and get his jacket is still to the left side of the house.



Just down the street on Harvard Avenue is this old building. It was a J.L. Goodman furniture store at the time of Kurt's death in 1981. Apparently behind this building is the ravine where Kurt's body was found.



It was stated on the UM segment that the duplex and the ravine where Kurt's body was found were just 500 yards apart. This final picture is a street view to give you a better idea of just how short of a distance it is between the two spots. The circle on the left is the house that's right next door to the duplex. The circle on the right is where the ravine is located behind the building.

I remember in the newspaper article linked a few pages back in this thread, it said that some people that lived nearby saw two young men carrying Kurt's body to the ravine (probably on Tues. 10/27/81 or Wed. 10/28/81). They were the people who told Kurt's parents that in 1983 but the Newburgh Heights police never had them on record stating that until 1989 (probably because that was right after the UM segment came out)! Anyway, from the looks of the google streetview, I would assume that the middle-aged couple was probably living in the house/residence right next to the duplex because it doesn't look like there are any other houses from there to the ravine (or what used to be the ravine). It's just yet another example of how crappy of a job the police did in this case (during the
80's at least).
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:44 AM   #192
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The duplex and the house next door are the only homes on Harvard Avenue. I looked up and down the street on street view. Going down the block across the street are nothing but factories and abandoned buildings.

However, there are 2 blocks of homes behind the duplex that dead end in to the ravine, which is now a golf course. So plenty of people could have witnessed a body being carried. I always assumed Susan's buddies carried Kurt to the ravine at maybe 3:00 in the morning, or at least very early so there would be less witnesses. But I didn't know that two people still spotted them. I'll have to go back and find that article.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:19 PM   #193
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I just watched this for the first time in many years and it was really like a new story for me. I didn't remember much about the case. At any rate, as Joe Friday says, let's just have the facts, ma'am. Let's just cut through speculation and start with what we know for sure. The way I see it, there are only a couple of indisputable facts here.

Fact 1) We know that there was no trauma to the body -- he was not shot, stabbed, beaten or strangled. As the coroner said, it's a matter of exclusion -- you rule out all possibilities and you're left with what you've got, and in this case what you've got is an undetermined death. Therefore, you start with the body and work backwards, and the body itself does not show any signs of obvious murder (the only possibility for murder would be chemical in nature).

My thoughts: An undetermined death of a 17 year old means only one of two things: a drug overdose or some sort of latent illness that no one was aware of. A drug overdose can probably be ruled out, as I am sure the coroner checked for drugs and alcohol. He didn't mention what his findings of drugs were, but he did say there was not enough alcohol present to have killed him. That leaves us with an unknown illness. I know people who have died as teenagers from aneurysms and other rare stuff. You hear about college athletes dying after practice from undiagnosed heart conditions, etc. I am not a doctor, so I am not sure how difficult it would be for a coroner to find such abnormal causes of death in an autopsy. I do know that sometimes young, healthy people do just die for no apparent or obvious reason. Watch "Dr. G" sometime.

Fact 2) It is pretty certain Kurt was at that party (as the renter of the apartment later admitted after having lied first). Other people at the party also admitted he was there. Therefore, the only question that remains is what happened between the party and the time he was found.

My thoughts: I think there is a shred of truth to the guy's story about Kurt being disoriented and going outside for air. Think about it, if the story were a lie, why would the guy even come forward at all? He didn't have to give the Sova's any information. If Sova was that disoriented or in a panic, it's very possible he may have wondered off during the time the guy went inside to get the jacket. Such behavior could very possibly be due to a hallucinogenic drug. I know because I have been there.

Fact 3) The fact that the woman who was renting the duplex initially lied about Kurt being there obviously means that something was amiss at the party. There's not much doubt about that. However, it should be stressed that what exactly she was scared of is not certain.

My thoughts: I am inclined to believe the apartment owner (Susan) was simply nervous about maybe getting in trouble for the drug use that was going on. This would explain why she first lied about the party and then later admitted it after she realized Mrs. Sova was only looking for her son.

Now for the mysteries of this case:

Mystery #1: The coroner said that Kurt had been dead for 24-36 hours. This doesn't fit in with the timeline of the party at all.

My explanation: Kurt was very ill and the party goers decided to let him stay there for a day or two. They likely didn't call an ambulance for fear of being implicated due to the drug usage that had occurred.

Mystery #2: Who was the person sleeping in the basement and why did Susan think it was Kurt?

My explanation: I think this mystery is easily explainable; the person was indeed Kurt and Susan wanted to make it sound as if she wasn't aware Kurt had been hanging around after the party so that she could clear herself of any wrong-doing or negligence. So she calls the Sova's and says "OMG, someone is in my basement, come quick, it might be Kurt." Basically, it was an alibi.

Mystery #3: The guy in the record store said that "Kurt will be dead and no one will know what happened to him." Who was this guy and why did he say that?

My explanation: I think this mystery is easily explainable too. The guy was probably at the party and witnessed the state that Kurt was in. He probably knew the people at the apartment were dumbfounded as to what was wrong with him. Everyone feared he might die and that no one would know what had happened. So basically the guy wasn't being menacing, he was merely stating fact: "no one knows what happened to him."

Mystery #4: Who was "Franco" that Kurt was seen getting into the van with?

My explanation: I think either the witness was mistaken or it was Kurt and he had been on a several day drug binge while staying at the apartment. Perhaps he had sobered up before he got into the van and only later got ill after using drugs again. I tend to think the witness was mistaken, though.

Mystery #5: If Kurt died accidentally why was his body put in the ravine and why was his shoe missing, etc?

My explanation: the people at Susan's apartment freaked out and simply put him there. It's possible he even died on the cot in the basement. They didn't call police or an ambulance because they feared being implicated. Perhaps some of them were drug dealers.

My conclusion:

Kurt went to that party, ended up doing some drugs and had an extremely bad reaction. Perhaps the alcohol mixed with the drugs were a bad combination. Perhaps he was doing some pills (like a benzo such as valium, atavan, xanax, etc.) and mixed it with alcohol. This can be a deadly combination. I know a girl who was 22, never done drugs, and who died after doing one hit of ecstasy. This stuff happens. Look at Brittany Murphy and Heath Ledger as examples of how easy it is to die from cocktails of various drugs.

Another possibility (since I'm sure the coroner checked for drugs) is that Kurt simply came down with an unknown illness -- an aneurysm or what have you. Maybe an undiagnosed congenital heart condition. You get the idea.

So after Kurt had his reaction and/or illness, the people at the apartment kept him there and let him sleep on the cot in the basement. After a day or two passed they became worried and were dumbfounded as to what was wrong with him. However, they were nervous about calling the police for obvious reasons. So, after a couple of days, they find him dead and decide it's better to dump the body. Sometime thereafter Susan calls the Sova's and tries to make it sound as if she wasn't even aware Kurt had been staying in her basement (just in case the Police were able to tie Kurt to the party). The fact that a friend said he saw Kurt in a bad state at the party (clinging to a fence) fortifies this theory in my mind.

Bottom line: this was an accidental death and someone freaked and dumped his body. The fact that there was no trauma to the body makes murder extremely unlikely.
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:03 PM   #194
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I think the majority of the posters here have concluded that it was an accidental death. Even Dorothy Sova concluded that it was an accidental death and that people at the party panicked and eventually dumped his body in the ravine.

I never believed the story about the guy claiming to leave Kurt on the fence after going outside for some air. How long would it take to go back upstairs, grab a jacket and come back outside? 2 minutes? Somehow during those two minutes, Kurt vanished? Yeah, right. If he was so disoriented that he could barely stand under his own power, there's not much chance that he could walk very far in just 2 minutes, never to be seen again. He would be found easily.

I think this guy made up this story to the Sovas to help cover Susan's ass. She didn't want it to be known that Kurt died on her property and that she knew where he was the entire time he was missing. She wanted it to look like he wandered off somewhere else and died.

Of course, that doesn't explain why she called the Sovas and told them Kurt might be in her basement. If you think someone's in your basement, common sense would be to check yourself to see who it is or call the police. That was obviously a smoke screen on Susan's part as well.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:30 AM   #195
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I think the majority of the posters here have concluded that it was an accidental death. Even Dorothy Sova concluded that it was an accidental death and that people at the party panicked and eventually dumped his body in the ravine.

I never believed the story about the guy claiming to leave Kurt on the fence after going outside for some air. How long would it take to go back upstairs, grab a jacket and come back outside? 2 minutes? Somehow during those two minutes, Kurt vanished? Yeah, right. If he was so disoriented that he could barely stand under his own power, there's not much chance that he could walk very far in just 2 minutes, never to be seen again. He would be found easily.

I think this guy made up this story to the Sovas to help cover Susan's ass. She didn't want it to be known that Kurt died on her property and that she knew where he was the entire time he was missing. She wanted it to look like he wandered off somewhere else and died.

Of course, that doesn't explain why she called the Sovas and told them Kurt might be in her basement. If you think someone's in your basement, common sense would be to check yourself to see who it is or call the police. That was obviously a smoke screen on Susan's part as well.
And what is the corrolation (if any) between Kurt's death and the death of his friend 3 months later? Very similar circumstances i.e. found in a ravine, no known cause of death, missing his right shoe. very strange?
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