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Old 11-11-2017, 12:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
While I still think at least Ann Sigmin had every intention of harming Charlie Sigmin at some point in time, I'm not sure either Ann nor Gary had planned on it being the night Charlie was ultimately shot and killed. I always thought it was interesting that LE had such divergent views on the case, but it has never escaped me that Gary Goff himself used to be a police officer (and although to my knowledge it's never been revealed for which agency he worked, I've always suspected it was the one which the officer who could see "no way Gary Goff is capable of murder first degree" also worked).
Right after I posted about Goff in the "bad guys you feel sorry for" thread, I started thinking that him turning himself in and then pleading guilty to 2nd degree murder (from my understanding there was a plea arrangement so he could testify against Ann Sigmin) seemed slightly fishy. The case was not strong to begin with, IMO. Because Goff did have a broken arm in a cast, and Charlie was much larger. I think he had a decent shot of an acquittal (again, based off of everything known which was presented in the UM segment), and I just found it odd that he immediately came forward after the UM airing and turned himself in and plead guilty shortly thereafter. I wonder if Goff and Sigmin took off together and then he killed her too, which is why she's never been located. And it would also explain his reasoning for turning himself in immediately, and publicly pleading for her to do the same. Maybe I'm giving Goff too much credit. But if it's true, that's a hell of a way to get away with a 2nd murder.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by TheCars1986
Right after I posted about Goff in the "bad guys you feel sorry for" thread, I started thinking that him turning himself in and then pleading guilty to 2nd degree murder (from my understanding there was a plea arrangement so he could testify against Ann Sigmin) seemed slightly fishy. The case was not strong to begin with, IMO. Because Goff did have a broken arm in a cast, and Charlie was much larger. I think he had a decent shot of an acquittal (again, based off of everything known which was presented in the UM segment), and I just found it odd that he immediately came forward after the UM airing and turned himself in and plead guilty shortly thereafter. I wonder if Goff and Sigmin took off together and then he killed her too, which is why she's never been located. And it would also explain his reasoning for turning himself in immediately, and publicly pleading for her to do the same. Maybe I'm giving Goff too much credit. But if it's true, that's a hell of a way to get away with a 2nd murder.
Damn...that's a hell of an interesting thought.
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TheCars1986
Right after I posted about Goff in the "bad guys you feel sorry for" thread, I started thinking that him turning himself in and then pleading guilty to 2nd degree murder (from my understanding there was a plea arrangement so he could testify against Ann Sigmin) seemed slightly fishy. The case was not strong to begin with, IMO. Because Goff did have a broken arm in a cast, and Charlie was much larger. I think he had a decent shot of an acquittal (again, based off of everything known which was presented in the UM segment), and I just found it odd that he immediately came forward after the UM airing and turned himself in and plead guilty shortly thereafter. I wonder if Goff and Sigmin took off together and then he killed her too, which is why she's never been located. And it would also explain his reasoning for turning himself in immediately, and publicly pleading for her to do the same. Maybe I'm giving Goff too much credit. But if it's true, that's a hell of a way to get away with a 2nd murder.
Years ago, I seem to remember that someone related to Ann Sigmin actually posted in this forum and shared this very same theory that Goff killed her and disposed of the body before turning himself in. Of course, I think this poster blindly defended Ann and claimed Charlie beat her, so I'd take the claims with a grain of salt.

EDIT: Found the original post. Looks like they never posted again after that...
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...8&postcount=12
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:09 PM   #34
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And it would also explain his reasoning for turning himself in immediately, and publicly pleading for her to do the same. Maybe I'm giving Goff too much credit. But if it's true, that's a hell of a way to get away with a 2nd murder.
Wow... That is a hell of a theory, Cars. But it makes perfect sense. Goff plays the patsy while blaming her knowing she’s already dead. Maybe he was crazy like a fox. Would be sort of like a “Usual Suspects” ending, but very possible.
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Old 11-11-2017, 04:30 PM   #35
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I always thought Gabby's Bones would never be solved...but I guess I was wrong!
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:16 AM   #36
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Yes — I totally agree. For a long time I waffled on this thinking maybe Dottie did run off to start over or commit suicide. But after I read those articles many months ago, the conclusion is obvious.

Jule is 100% responsible for murdering Dottie.
I read those articles and maybe I am still an amateur on this case but I am still unconvinced as no smoking gun has been spotted. Jule didnt seem too bright of a guy and he is sleazier than I first imagined but I still cannot make the leap to murder: he seems like the kind of guy who is too lazy to kill anyone and if he did would boast about it. I know this sounds dumb but if the law is so convinced he did it how was he never charged? What are they waiting for?

Having said that, if he did a deathbed confession I would not be totally shocked either. What I do not understand is why the detective believes Jule buried the body at home when he could easily dump it in the deep woods given his forestry career. Is he just the second luckiest guy in UM history next to that kidnapper in Minnesota?
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:27 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Mueller
Yes — I totally agree. For a long time I waffled on this thinking maybe Dottie did run off to start over or commit suicide. But after I read those articles many months ago, the conclusion is obvious.

Jule is 100% responsible for murdering Dottie.
I read those articles and maybe I am still an amateur on this case but I am still unconvinced as no smoking gun has been spotted. Jule didnt seem too bright of a guy and he is sleazier than I first imagined but I still cannot make the leap to murder: he seems like the kind of guy who is too lazy to kill anyone and if he did would boast about it. I know this sounds dumb but if the law is so convinced he did it how was he never charged? What are they waiting for?

Having said that, if he did a deathbed confession I would not be totally shocked either. What I do not understand is why the detective believes Jule buried the body at home when he could easily dump it in the deep woods given his forestry career. Is he just the second luckiest guy in UM history next to that kidnapper in Minnesota?
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:52 PM   #38
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I read those articles and maybe I am still an amateur on this case but I am still unconvinced as no smoking gun has been spotted. Jule didnt seem too bright of a guy and he is sleazier than I first imagined but I still cannot make the leap to murder: he seems like the kind of guy who is too lazy to kill anyone and if he did would boast about it. I know this sounds dumb but if the law is so convinced he did it how was he never charged? What are they waiting for?
There is no smoking gun (as in evidence that could convict him) but the pattern of how he lived with Dottie, what he did around her disappearance, and what he did after leaves no doubt. Remember, he came off on UM with an uninterested, almost aloof attitude with regard to Dottie. Didn't care, couldn't care less, "Oh well..." But when you read about all the things he did, that is contrary to his attitude. He covered up and he ran. He used her mental state as an excuse.

It's not like Dottie was fleeing the mob. She isn't wanted for a crime. So if she really ran off, why stay in hiding all these years? I highly doubt she wasn't the victim of a random crime. If so, why hide her body? That would be a lot of work for a robbery gone bad or any other incident at the BART station.

Jule was a controlling man who ultimately probably snapped, murdered Dottie, covered it up, and got the hell out of Dodge. He totally comes across as a pompous, self-centered, egotistic ass and I am 100% convinced he killed is wife.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
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no smoking gun has been spotted
He rented out the house to new tenants before he reported Dottie missing. Virtually all of Dottie's friends and her sister say that she and Jule worked out an agreement that she would stay at their house in CA and pay him the rent while he went off to UT. The fact that he rented the house prior to Dottie being reported missing is the biggest smoking gun in this case. He knew she was already dead.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:18 AM   #40
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He rented out the house to new tenants before he reported Dottie missing. Virtually all of Dottie's friends and her sister say that she and Jule worked out an agreement that she would stay at their house in CA and pay him the rent while he went off to UT. The fact that he rented the house prior to Dottie being reported missing is the biggest smoking gun in this case. He knew she was already dead.
Yes! Again, there is no "smoking gun" in the sense that will convict him in court, but as Cars said, Jule's behavior shows he knew Dottie wasn't coming back because she was already dead. His "whatever" attitude on UM is very different than his plotting, calculating behavior in real life. On UM he was leaving notes on her car saying "Please come back" all the while he was moving on without her permanently.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:30 AM   #41
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Used to believe Dub Wackerhagen murdered Latricia White and went on the run with Chance, but I'm now 100 % convinced all three of them were murdered by someone else.
If we were going to have 'Top 5 Unsolved Mysteries reversals of all time' I think Dub Wackerhagen + Mike Reimer would be in it. Look at threads from say 2010, everyone KNEW they did it.

For the record, I always thought Wackerhagen was probably innocent because the motive made no sense considering they also thought he murdered his own son (wait a min - i thought the motive was that the step mom was abusive toward Chance - but then he murders Chance?).
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:38 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Mueller
Yes! Again, there is no "smoking gun" in the sense that will convict him in court, but as Cars said, Jule's behavior shows he knew Dottie wasn't coming back because she was already dead. His "whatever" attitude on UM is very different than his plotting, calculating behavior in real life. On UM he was leaving notes on her car saying "Please come back" all the while he was moving on without her permanently.
That Jules later on denied making the 'i drove her to the subway' story puts it in a weird light too, makes you wonder what the actual last verifiable sighting of her was.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:39 AM   #43
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- Thought Jefferey Digman was murdered initially. Seems like a pretty clear-cut case of suicide when one considers the information carefully, although I do still have a question or two.
Was it Gunderson's reputation that made you reconsider?
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:16 PM   #44
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After reading up on Michael Lloyd Self, I'm convinced that he killed those two girls. He changed his story about how the interrogation went down and although he claimed the officers beat him, he made no mention of this to a doctor who examined him later that day and photographs showed no such injuries. He couldn't even remember on the stand which version of the interrogation was true! You can read more here:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...=michael+lloyd

I think this was one of those situations where the segment seemed to want to play up the fact that Self had a developmental disability and therefore those evil cops must have manipulated him into a false confession a la Johnny Lee Wilson. But the two cases are nowhere near the same. I don't think Self was anywhere near as "slow" as they tried to portray.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:21 PM   #45
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Sarah Powell.

When I first watched the segment when it originally aired I thought she was merely covering up, holding back information, or even exaggerating. Now I think she's a complete liar and faker.
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