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Old 09-25-2011, 09:48 AM   #31
TheCars1986
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Originally Posted by kane7474
Do you believe that if we do what he wants when we die we get to go party with him for eternity?
Yes. We're going to party like it's 1999.

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Originally Posted by kane7474
Do you beleive his son came to earth, died and then returned as a zombie and told people how to live?
I think he was born, told people the way they should live, then died and went to Heaven.

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Originally Posted by kane7474
If so I find it laughable that you call me delusional and say my rants are "fact free". Why dont you break loose of your brainwasing and learn how to apply logic and reasoning? Now go back to the herd sheep.
Honestly, this is a free country the last time I checked. People can believe what they want to believe. No brain washing necessary.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:12 AM   #32
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Yes. We're going to party like it's 1999.



I think he was born, told people the way they should live, then died and went to Heaven.



Honestly, this is a free country the last time I checked. People can believe what they want to believe. No brain washing necessary.
Well I hope you do get to have that party in the sky lol

I think he was born, stood up and fought the power structure and was killed for it like so many others have been. Afterwards some of his followers decided to exploit him for their own gain.

This is anything but a free country so check again. Thats a nice tag line alot of people like to blindly repeat but it has no real meaning. Ofcourse you can beleive whatever you want to and so can I. And yes brainwashing is necessary in order to condition people to beleive certain things and act accordingly
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:15 AM   #33
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Oh no doubt. LaVey made no bones about being a con man. In fact, he reveled in it. Much like L. Ron Hubbard, he created a religion and got filthy rich in the process. I've read LaVey's books, he had other uses for virgins. He wasn't just a con man, he was a very horny con man. The hysteria kept people blind and stupid, but it also made others very rich. Of course, now they can only lecture at tent revivals, so I hope they invested their money.

On a side note, your views on religion are very similar to mine. Just thought I'd throw that out there since you've been catching some heat.
Thank you for the support.

You look at what Lavey did and I ask how it differs from what many christian leaders do?? They take the name of god and through trickery exploit their followers. Lavey was atleast honest about what he was doing.
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:39 PM   #34
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Some interesting stuff in this thread.

I turned 18 in 1985, so was a teenager turning into an adult during the whole Satanic Panic thing. I've frequently wondered what could cause such widespread hysteria.

From a short amount of internet research, and reading the posts here, it looks like organized christian religion is considered to be partly to blame. Especially groups described as 'born again' or 'evangelical'.

During this time period, I attended church 2 to 3 times a week at what people could describe as that type of church. (Also attended my in-laws church which was a different denomination, but would fit that description.) I can honestly tell you that never once was there a sermon, discussion, lesson, etc, regarding satan worship, organized or individual satanism, or anything like that. Teens and their parents weren't warned against recruitment efforts by satanists.

Since so many people are connecting this to the christian religion, I'm wondering if the big names of that era, like Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, Jimmy Swaggart, Billy Graham, Paul and Jan Crouch... those types, promoted this stuff on their tv shows. Anyone remember?

I watched a few of their programs, especially Jim and Tammy Faye, for the bizarre entertainment value. I never read any of their books, took none of these people seriously or looked to them as legitimate religious leaders, and never followed their brand of christianity. In fact, I saw them as greedy charlatans, but apparently a lot of people trusted them, or they wouldn't have had so many fans willing to part with their money so these people's dogs could live in air conditioned dog houses. I can definitely see these kinds of televangelists using and promoting the satanic panic to their economic benefit, and non-christians would assume that this was an accurate representation of the beliefs of mainstream christianity.

After reading the reviews of the Satanic Panic book mentioned earlier in the thread, it looks like the book "Michelle Remembers", published in 1980, may have played a big part in convincing people of organized satanic ritualistic abuse of children. I read part of the wikipedia info on it, and I have to say, the events claimed sound preposterous. Here are the opening paragraphs of the wiki article:

Michelle Remembers is a book published in 1980 co-written by Canadian psychiatrist Lawrence Pazder and his psychiatric patient (and eventual wife) Michelle Smith.

A best-seller, Michelle Remembers was the first book written on the subject of satanic ritual abuse and is an important part of the controversies beginning in the 1980s regarding satanic ritual abuse and repressed memory.

The book has been discredited by several investigations which found no corroboration of the book's events, while others have pointed out that the events described in the book were extremely unlikely and in some cases impossible.

Michelle Remembers chronicles Pazder's therapy in the late 1970s with his long-time patient Smith. In 1973 Pazder first started treating Smith at his private psychiatric practice in Victoria, British Columbia. In 1976 when Pazder was treating Smith for depression (related to her having had a miscarriage), Smith confided she felt that she had something important to tell him, but could not remember what it was.

Shortly thereafter, Pazder and Smith had a session where Smith screamed for 25 minutes non-stop and eventually started speaking in the voice of a five-year-old. Over the next 14 months Pazder spent over 600 hours using hypnosis to help Smith recover alleged memories of satanic ritual abuse that occurred when she was five in 1954 and 1955 at the hands of her mother (Virginia Proby) and others, all of whom Smith said were members of a "Satanic cult" in Victoria.


Anyone else aware of this book's effect on the satanic panic hysteria? I never heard of it until today. Apparently, it was initially accepted as true, but was later debunked, since there was no evidence of any kind to support the claims.

Also, as earlier mentioned, this sort of reminds me of the illuminati conspiracies of the 21st century. It seems like every generation has to have their 'boogeyman'. Was the satanic panic the giant conspiracy theory of the 80s era?

----

Just read more of the wiki article. Apparently Oprah may have promoted the Michelle Remembers book on her show, and it was presented as fact on the tv news program 20/20. I can see where the general public would start to believe this stuff when trusted media is reporting it. Also, it was featured in the National Enquirer (oh come on!!!), and People. The author was consulted as an expert on the McMartin Preschool RSA trial. No wonder those people were railroaded.

Pazder [the author] was part of the Cult Crime Impact Network and lectured to police agencies about satanic ritual abuse during the late 1980s. By 1987 Pazder reported that he was spending a third of his time consulting on satanic ritual abuse cases. By September 1990, Pazder had been consulted "in more than 1,000 'ritual abuse' cases". With people suddenly being prosecuted for satanic ritual abuse, prosecutors used the book as a guide when preparing cases against alleged Satanists. Prior to the start of the Kern County child abuse cases several local social workers had attended a training seminar that foregrounded satanic ritual abuse as a major element in child sexual abuse and used Michelle Remembers as training material.

I can't believe police, social workers, and prosecutors were using this sketchy book as an authoritative guide. Here's the wiki link, if you want to read more about what they have to say on the subject of Michelle Remembers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers

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Old 10-19-2011, 08:51 PM   #35
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TracyLynn,

Michelle Remembers was the cornerstone, so to speak, of the whole hysteria. There were other books written after that one by other psychiatrists who claimed to also have patients suffering from SRA, but Pazder's book sort of set the stage for what was to come. I have read Michelle Remembers, it is completely preposterous. I also read Mike Warnke's book which is equally as preposterous. Satanic Panic deals quite heavily with the McMartin Pre-school abuse scandal. That particular debacle was set off by a chronic alcoholic with serious mental health issues (dual-diagnosis as we call it). She claimed among other things, that he son was sodomized by McMartin's son, several other prominent males in community and a lion (!). How people believed these accusations to be truthful is still beyond me and I've studied the topic extensively. I'm working on my Master's in Psychology at the moment, so being aware of some of the darker sides of my profession is essential. I know I have urged people here to read Satanic Panic once already, but it really is an excellent read for those who grew up in or have an interest in SRA. It should also be noted that Pazder married Michelle. This is a HUGE ethical violation and should have seen his license to practice psychiatry revoked. Having relations with a patient is one of the surest ways to lose your license. Another of Oprah's favorites, Dr. Phil, lost his license for the same thing.

I remember as a child in the 1980's seeing televangelists talk of the satanic conspiracy. I know Pat Robertson of the 700 Club devoted a great deal of time on the subject. Oprah and Phil Donohue as well as Geraldo and I believe Sally Jessie Raphael did as well. I do recall Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker mentioning the subject at least once, however, I would be hard pressed to give an air date, I was only 10 or 11 at the time. Teachers in my school were trained on how to spot "satanic activity" as well. I remember being reprimanded once for having a peace symbol on my book cover as it was supposedly satanic. I was a mouthy kid and I asked the teacher what she was talking about. Her response was that they had just completed training on satanic symbols and this was one of them. So, at least in rural Pennsylvania, there were training sessions on it.

I apologize for droning on and on about the subject. I did research papers on it during my Bachelor's work and it is one of my pet subjects. Sorry to bore you all to tears.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:32 AM   #36
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Thanks for all that info! It definitely helps me to understand what was going on and what contributed to this whole thing.

And it's very worrisome to see that officials, including teachers, were being trained in something that turned out to basically be a dangerous fraud.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:10 AM   #37
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I can't believe police, social workers, and prosecutors were using this sketchy book as an authoritative guide.
Well, look at all the "experts" who made countless dollars on being so-called "experts" and lecturing at law enforcement gatherings, teacher conventions, etc. Big bucks to be had in making people scared.

Ah, the Satanic Panic of the 80's. So many misguided talkshow hosts and interview programs fell for its trap. At least Geraldo finally admitted that he'd be taken for a fool by it all. But it makes a helluva good story (no pun intended) to say that black-robed, heavy-metal-listening, blood-drinking demented satanists are the cause of such mayhem...
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:43 AM   #38
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I was 20 years old in 1985 and I completely agree that the whole Satan Worship thing was waaaay overused in the 80's Did it happen? Probably. Probably just as not as much as law enforcement wants to believe.

On a different note - did UM ever do a story on the McMartin Preschool of the early 80's?
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:35 AM   #39
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On a different note - did UM ever do a story on the McMartin Preschool of the early 80's?
No, but Lifetime aired a couple movies about the case.
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Old 10-25-2011, 11:40 AM   #40
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I don't believe anyone actually "worshipped" Satan, ever. I think sometimes people may have indulged in Pagan activities, Medieval activities, etc. and that got confused as "satan worship".
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:19 AM   #41
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I was 20 years old in 1985 and I completely agree that the whole Satan Worship thing was waaaay overused in the 80's Did it happen? Probably. Probably just as not as much as law enforcement wants to believe.

On a different note - did UM ever do a story on the McMartin Preschool of the early 80's?
Logically Satan worship makes no sense. Satan is a being created in the bible. Therefore Satan is a creation of Christians. So to call yourself a Satan worshipper you would have to beileve in the Bible and have your God furnished to you by the very people you are fighting against. Doesnt add up does it.

UM never did a story on Mcmartin preschool but there was a movie made about that case. It was another terrible example of satanic panic. Also a nice example of how a counselor can place false memories into the brain of a child and basically get them to say anything
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:34 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Logically Satan worship makes no sense. Satan is a being created in the bible. Therefore Satan is a creation of Christians. So to call yourself a Satan worshipper you would have to beileve in the Bible and have your God furnished to you by the very people you are fighting against. Doesnt add up does it.
I'm not an expert in world religions, but aren't there other belief systems, besides Christianity, that recognize "good" and "evil" supernatural beings?

Muslims believe that Allah created Iblis (their satan) out of fire. They believe that he plants evil ideas in people's minds and causes them to commit sins.

There must be other religions besides Islam and Christianity that believe in an evil, devil/satan, being. I'm sure the concept is not exclusive to one religion.
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Old 10-26-2011, 12:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by TracyLynnS
I'm not an expert in world religions, but aren't there other belief systems, besides Christianity, that recognize "good" and "evil" supernatural beings?

Muslims believe that Allah created Iblis (their satan) out of fire. They believe that he plants evil ideas in people's minds and causes them to commit sins.

There must be other religions besides Islam and Christianity that believe in an evil, devil/satan, being. I'm sure the concept is not exclusive to one religion.
You are correct. However the post was specific to Satan worship and Satan is specific to the christian bible. Nearly all religons follow the same premise of there is an evil force out there looking to destroy you so follow us and give us your money so that you will be protected.
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #44
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You are correct. However the post was specific to Satan worship and Satan is specific to the christian bible. Nearly all religons follow the same premise of there is an evil force out there looking to destroy you so follow us and give us your money so that you will be protected.
I understand what you're saying now. It makes sense that it would be a predominately Christian society that would experience this kind of specific Satanic Panic.

It would be interesting to know if there have been similar phenomena in other religious cultures and if they were as widespread as what we saw in the 80s and 90s.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:36 PM   #45
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There are certainly other cultures where similar things have happened. I've read about "witches" in Africa and the like being killed because it was believed they were doing evil things. I don't think we've seen anything on such a large scale as the whole Satanic Panic hysteria though. There are still people in prison to this day behind that whole debacle.
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