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Old 01-27-2015, 03:16 PM   #121
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I really just think it was a suicide. I think the chance of her screaming she wanted to kill herself and being that distressed and then the victim of a homicide is extremely slim. There were different opinion by different experts. Cases like Mike O'Mara the circumstances definitely point to homicide but given these circumstances, I definitely lean toward suicide
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:46 PM   #122
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I'm so on the fence with this one. It seems like such a strange way to kill yourself, but I think its certainly plausible...
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:49 AM   #123
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I've always felt like this was probably an accidental shooting, not a suicide. I've posted many times in this thread and have outlined reasoned explanations, but on top of that, I've just always had a feeling that woman didn't kill herself. Can't articulate why, I just do.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:28 AM   #124
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I've always felt like this was probably an accidental shooting, not a suicide. I've posted many times in this thread and have outlined reasoned explanations, but on top of that, I've just always had a feeling that woman didn't kill herself. Can't articulate why, I just do.
My best guess has always been that Reigh Ann went to the house to confront the boyfriend over something, and was trying to get his attention thus the loud music. He came out and maybe told her to get lost, and she picked up the shotgun threatening to kill herself, and when he tried to get it away from her, the gun went off and she was accidentally shot. He could have been charged with manslaughter for such a thing, so his family panicked and helped him covered it up not wanting him to go to prison for a couple of years over an accident.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:50 AM   #125
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As far as the experiment to discharge the gun is concerned, I'm just asking what you would have like to seen to further prove that the gun could or could not discharge.
Guns accidentally discharge. UM has even presented some cases of it. Off the top of my head, the hunter who fell out of his blind and the gun hit the ground and went off, shot him and almost killed him.

That idiot "expert" who banged the gun on the ground wasn't even testing a realistic situation. The gun was found on the hood of the car. Does he mean to suggest that the gun was dropped on the ground and then bounced up on top of the car? His experiment was completely and utterly worthless.

Guns do accidentally discharge at times so there's no need to have a discussion over it. It's like trying to argue the Earth isn't round.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:22 AM   #126
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Assuming there were tests done, wouldn't the boyfriend's prints be found on the gun or his hands have gunshot residue if they were in fact struggling for the gun?
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:28 AM   #127
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Assuming there were tests done, wouldn't the boyfriend's prints be found on the gun or his hands have gunshot residue if they were in fact struggling for the gun?
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Another thing is that if the boyfriend shot her, wouldn't throwing the gun on the grass have been a better and more likelier option since it would have made less noise? Placing the gun on the roof of the car seems...weird. Unless he gently placed it on there, which I doubt, the thing would have made more noise, running the risk of drawing even more attention to the scene (after the noise of the shotgun blast).
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:53 PM   #128
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I used to think this was murder, but now I think this may have been an accident. Rae Ann may have been extremely emotional, threatening suicide by brandishing it, and somehow caused it to go off. Then, because she had threatened suicide, everyone automatically assumes that's what happened. I don't think it was a suicide. The trajectory of the bullet and it laying on the trunk bothers me.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:12 PM   #129
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I can envision a scenario where Rae Ann places the shotgun on the trunk of the car, shimmies up against the car to where she can reach the trigger, and shooting herself.

I definitely think the parents were grasping at straws on this one, now that I think about it. For one, the mother claims that Rae Ann's arms measured 29 inches...how would she know this?! Assuming that she got this information from an autopsy report (seems unlikely, since she used this among other evidence for the state to perform an autopsy), this does not mean it is true...autopsy reports get heights, weights, etc. wrong all the time. UM even says, "according to Ann Mossor..." with regards to Rae Ann's arm length. For all we know, she could have reached the gun with no problem. Their "evidence" of murder, according to UM, was the fact that the gun was found on the trunk, the key being left in the ignition, the driver's door being open, and the music in the car being turned up loud. That's it.

The only piece of evidence, IMO, that would suggest something shady went on was the gunshot residue being found on her left wrist. Even the medical examiner they contacted, Dr. Butts, did not conclusively say that she could not have killed herself. IIRC, he says something like she could have been holding the gun, or grabbing for the gun, but he couldn't say who was on the other end of the gun near the trigger.
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:26 AM   #130
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I can envision a scenario where Rae Ann places the shotgun on the trunk of the car, shimmies up against the car to where she can reach the trigger, and shooting herself.

I definitely think the parents were grasping at straws on this one, now that I think about it. For one, the mother claims that Rae Ann's arms measured 29 inches...how would she know this?! Assuming that she got this information from an autopsy report (seems unlikely, since she used this among other evidence for the state to perform an autopsy), this does not mean it is true...autopsy reports get heights, weights, etc. wrong all the time. UM even says, "according to Ann Mossor..." with regards to Rae Ann's arm length. For all we know, she could have reached the gun with no problem. Their "evidence" of murder, according to UM, was the fact that the gun was found on the trunk, the key being left in the ignition, the driver's door being open, and the music in the car being turned up loud. That's it.

The only piece of evidence, IMO, that would suggest something shady went on was the gunshot residue being found on her left wrist. Even the medical examiner they contacted, Dr. Butts, did not conclusively say that she could not have killed herself. IIRC, he says something like she could have been holding the gun, or grabbing for the gun, but he couldn't say who was on the other end of the gun near the trigger.
My god, we actually agree on something. What happens now, does the internet shut down?

The only thing I would have to add is that during the infamous broomstick recreation in the Mossor's kitchen, you had the mother saying something to the effect of "My arm is bout the same as my daughter's". That didn't cut it for me. About the same is not the same, you need exact measurements while doing this sort of thing.
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:45 AM   #131
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Guns accidentally discharge. UM has even presented some cases of it. Off the top of my head, the hunter who fell out of his blind and the gun hit the ground and went off, shot him and almost killed him.

That idiot "expert" who banged the gun on the ground wasn't even testing a realistic situation. The gun was found on the hood of the car. Does he mean to suggest that the gun was dropped on the ground and then bounced up on top of the car? His experiment was completely and utterly worthless.

Guns do accidentally discharge at times so there's no need to have a discussion over it. It's like trying to argue the Earth isn't round.
Which leads more credence to the angle that she didn't shoot herself. The gun couldn't discharge and then magically be on the hood of the car.

I always felt folks brushed over that fact which was the obvious thing to her not killing herself. The gun was on the trunk of the car.

And I hate to sound mean when I say this, but the analogy of a gun sometimes discharging to the Earth being round is well...terrible. Guns sometimes can discharge. The Earth is always round.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:01 AM   #132
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Which leads more credence to the angle that she didn't shoot herself. The gun couldn't discharge and then magically be on the hood of the car.

I always felt folks brushed over that fact which was the obvious thing to her not killing herself. The gun was on the trunk of the car.

And I hate to sound mean when I say this, but the analogy of a gun sometimes discharging to the Earth being round is well...terrible. Guns sometimes can discharge. The Earth is always round.
Except if she threw it on there, which I discussed.

I talked about how the 'banging the gun on the ground' experiment was worthless (which it was), you asked me what more I wanted to see, I replied that guns do accidentally discharge at times (which they do). There's really no need to continue the debate. Guns accidentally discharge at times. Saying that they don't is like arguing the Earth is flat. Not a terrible analogy at all.

Given that most of the people posting recently on this thread believe she was not murdered, I don't know why you keep singling out my posts. Do you have a problem with me personally?

I also don't care for your snotty line "Errrmmm are you sure it's baloney, or is it just not what you want to hear."

Pardon me? I had no horse in this race going in, I didn't know (and still don't know) any of the players in this case so why would I care? You seem to suggest I'm tailoring the evidence to fit a preconceived notion when nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, most of the people on here don't think she was murdered, there were no eyewitnesses that saw she was murdered, nobody testifying on suspicious behavior on the boyfriend's part, no other suspects, no known motives, no God damn anything. What more do you want, surveillance camera footage?
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:57 AM   #133
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Except if she threw it on there, which I discussed.

I talked about how the 'banging the gun on the ground' experiment was worthless (which it was), you asked me what more I wanted to see, I replied that guns do accidentally discharge at times (which they do). There's really no need to continue the debate. Guns accidentally discharge at times. Saying that they don't is like arguing the Earth is flat. Not a terrible analogy at all.

Given that most of the people posting recently on this thread believe she was not murdered, I don't know why you keep singling out my posts. Do you have a problem with me personally?

I also don't care for your snotty line "Errrmmm are you sure it's baloney, or is it just not what you want to hear."

Pardon me? I had no horse in this race going in, I didn't know (and still don't know) any of the players in this case so why would I care? You seem to suggest I'm tailoring the evidence to fit a preconceived notion when nothing could be further from the truth.

Look, most of the people on here don't think she was murdered, there were no eyewitnesses that saw she was murdered, nobody testifying on suspicious behavior on the boyfriend's part, no other suspects, no known motives, no God damn anything. What more do you want, surveillance camera footage?
Why are you getting mad over the internet? I'm not targeting you via your posts. I'm not sure why you believe I have some kind of personal vendetta against you in regards to discussing this case. I'm not taking issue with you even if I disagree with some of the ideas in your posts. So stop playing the victim card my friend. Let's not get it twisted. No one is out to get you. And you started talking to me first by quoting a post of mine.

And it doesn't really matter if the majority of people believe she killed herself in this thread. That doesn't prove anything whatsoever (Argumentum ad populum). And I don't want anything (other than the mystery to be solved). I've already made my stance clear on what I feel happened. We obviously won't agree.

By the way no one ever said guns don't discharge.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:15 AM   #134
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By the way no one ever said guns don't discharge.
I assume you mean accidentally discharge.

No, you pretended the guy's experiment was legit and that it wouldn't accidentally discharge. I've already outlined the reason why that experiment was bogus, that the gun could have accidentally discharged and how the experiment didn't even relate to this case.

Do you honestly think that because that guy banged the gun on the ground a few times that it proved it couldn't have accidentally discharged and shot Rae Ann?
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:22 PM   #135
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My god, we actually agree on something. What happens now, does the internet shut down?
I was actually over here singing a song from The Princess Diaries, which my daughter LOVES. "Miracles happen once in a while... when you believe."
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