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Old 01-19-2015, 09:02 PM   #106
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I have always thought this one was a sad and tragic suicide. I think she was young emotional and made impulsive choice. I just can't get over the other witnesses that heard her distraught yelling she was going to kill herself. You have medical experts that dispute each other findings but you have that a lot. (Defense, prosecution experts ect). So, for me the other other witnesses besides the boyfriend saying she was going to kill herself makes me believe it was suicide. Cases like Keith Warren are definitely a murder but this one has always been a suicide to me.
Witnesses that if they were close to the boyfriend would have every motive to lie.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:09 AM   #107
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From information I've found in different articles of the case, it appears they were independent witnesses. the boyfriend lives in an apartment type building with close very neighbors coming and going. Its very easy for neighbors who are coming or going to hear a someone say that. Second, I have very good friends but I don't think a single one of them would lie to LE for me especially if it was to get me out of a possible murder. Of course, friends have done that for people but just to assume witnesses would lie for someone is making great asssumptions. But again, from the info Ive gathered these were independent witnesses. This one I do think was a suicide.
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:32 PM   #108
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From information I've found in different articles of the case, it appears they were independent witnesses. the boyfriend lives in an apartment type building with close very neighbors coming and going. Its very easy for neighbors who are coming or going to hear a someone say that. Second, I have very good friends but I don't think a single one of them would lie to LE for me especially if it was to get me out of a possible murder. Of course, friends have done that for people but just to assume witnesses would lie for someone is making great asssumptions. But again, from the info Ive gathered these were independent witnesses. This one I do think was a suicide.
I agree. I don't think his friends would have covered for him this long if the guy was in fact involved in Rae Ann's murder.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:15 PM   #109
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I never knew what to make of it based on the scant info. I think the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests suicide, but the ballistics and medical evidence suggest an accident or possibly a murder. Not unlike other UM "suicide vs. murder" stories (e.g., Digman, Williams, Ladner). I some times wonder if it's a matter of paying the right expert the right amount to get a statement consistent with the pre-determined direction.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:23 PM   #110
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I never knew what to make of it based on the scant info. I think the circumstantial evidence strongly suggests suicide, but the ballistics and medical evidence suggest an accident or possibly a murder. Not unlike other UM "suicide vs. murder" stories (e.g., Digman, Williams, Ladner). I some times wonder if it's a matter of paying the right expert the right amount to get a statement consistent with the pre-determined direction.
Ladner I definitely believe was murder. During that time period in those parts, drug running was huge and many LE officials and even higher were involved. That's why I always believed Ladner's mother when she said someone at the ME's office came up to her and told her "You will never catch the person who did this to your son, you have other children, I suggest you raise them." Plus, according to everyone he was a happy and healthy boy so suicide doesn't make sense and the evidence doesn't point to accident in that case. Its very much similar to the "Friends to the End" of the boys on the track. Since then many books and articles have come out implicating a large drug smuggling operation in which some LE and high government officials were involved.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:27 PM   #111
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Rae Ann, based on witnesses testimony, was emotionally distraught at the time of her death. So emotionally distraught she was outwardly yelling how she was going to kill herself. There is no suspect (even in the episode the parents don't point to the boyfriend and neither did the grand jury.) Its a hell of a coincidence that someone is incredibly emotionally distraught over a breakup to the point of threatening suicide, and then ends up murdered outside in public view? It just doesn't seem likely. In all likelihood, Rae Ann made in an impulsive decision that was tragically permanent.
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:47 PM   #112
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Rae Ann is different from the other murder vs. suicide segments featured on UM. Forensics seemed to indicate that Rae Ann was in close proximity to the weapon when it discharged. I think there were powder burns on her left wrist. Granted, if she grabbed the gun while someone else shot her this would result in the powder burns. But there were 3 witnesses (besides the boyfriend) who said she was threatening to kill herself. The scene seemed to indicate that she committed suicide as well. Her body was found next on the ground next to the boyfriend's car. Her car had her door wide open with music blaring. Investigators assumed she left the car in a hurry. IMO, she did this to confront the boyfriend. It's been awhile since I've seen the segment, but didn't the shotgun belong to Rae Ann?
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Old 01-25-2015, 05:04 PM   #113
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How could she fire the shotgun at herself and end up with the wound toward the center of her chest if she couldn't even reach it? That's the entire case to me right there. And three witnesses saying that they heard Rae Ann asking if she should kill herself doesn't really hold much water to me. That could have being in the heat of an argument and she could have been shot by her boyfriend moments later.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:26 AM   #114
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the lack of an apparent motive, suspect and the deceased's statement regarding killing herself all point to suicide.

Initially, the issue of could she have killed herself given the trajectory, placement of the gun and stuff related to this did bother me, but it was the weapon that happened to be around, and she probably didn't have any alternatives in regard to which weapons to use. She probably found a way to make it work since nothing else was available.

Another nagging question I have is: who would have known about the shotgun in her car except her? It's probably not something she went around telling everybody.

here's something I just thought of: what if the boyfriend realized she was about to committ suicide tried to discourage her by taking the gun away but it ended up going off somehow?
Sorry to bump an old post but this is a possibility. Last year my friend asked me to go with him to a viewing for a friend from work that passed away. I went & i noticed she was really young. I didn't go see her in her casket, I noticed in the photos they had in the entrance.

Anyways, her bf went up to speak & was distraught. He couldn't speak & needed someone to help me off the podium. Afterwards, my friend told me her sister had told them they got into an argument. She was drunk and had a gun & kept making threats that she'd do it. He tried taking the gun from her & in the struggle she shot herself in the heart.
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Old 01-26-2015, 02:24 AM   #115
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How could she fire the shotgun at herself and end up with the wound toward the center of her chest if she couldn't even reach it? That's the entire case to me right there. And three witnesses saying that they heard Rae Ann asking if she should kill herself doesn't really hold much water to me. That could have being in the heat of an argument and she could have been shot by her boyfriend moments later.
Accidental discharge is a possibility. You had an "expert" on there who banged the gun on the ground a few times and claimed there was no way the gun could accidentally discharge. I thought that was all baloney. The parents broomstick recreation with the mom's arm length "about as same" as Rae Ann's didn't do anything for me either.

The statement of "What do I have to do to prove my love for you, kill myself?" fits with the known facts of the case. Rae Ann was reportedly pissed off about the status of their relationships, so it fits in that context, making it easier to believe. I would have an easier time believing the boyfriend could be responsible if there was a known motive, but there wasn't. He was done with her and she was the one who wasn't taking it well.

If there was an update to the case, I'd possibly be more apt to change my tune, but there wasn't. No report of additional suspects, potential motives, additional outside info, eyewitness accounts, nothing.
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:30 PM   #116
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That is exactly what I think happened. They are arguing, and she is being dramatic. She says "What do I have to do, kill myself?" She points the gun at herself and he tries to take it away. In the struggle, one of them accidentally bumps the trigger. I assume it would be him, because of the info about her arm not being long enough to reach the trigger if she's holding it to her chest. I don't think he meant to kill her, and I don't really think she meant to kill herself. I think it was probably a heat-of-the-moment accidental thing.
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:38 PM   #117
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That is exactly what I think happened. They are arguing, and she is being dramatic. She says "What do I have to do, kill myself?" She points the gun at herself and he tries to take it away. In the struggle, one of them accidentally bumps the trigger. I assume it would be him, because of the info about her arm not being long enough to reach the trigger if she's holding it to her chest. I don't think he meant to kill her, and I don't really think she meant to kill herself. I think it was probably a heat-of-the-moment accidental thing.
That always seemed like a comfortable fit to me. Sort of like a good compromise between the suicide and murder theories.
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Old 01-27-2015, 01:15 AM   #118
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Accidental discharge is a possibility. You had an "expert" on there who banged the gun on the ground a few times and claimed there was no way the gun could accidentally discharge. I thought that was all baloney. The parents broomstick recreation with the mom's arm length "about as same" as Rae Ann's didn't do anything for me either.

The statement of "What do I have to do to prove my love for you, kill myself?" fits with the known facts of the case. Rae Ann was reportedly pissed off about the status of their relationships, so it fits in that context, making it easier to believe. I would have an easier time believing the boyfriend could be responsible if there was a known motive, but there wasn't. He was done with her and she was the one who wasn't taking it well.

If there was an update to the case, I'd possibly be more apt to change my tune, but there wasn't. No report of additional suspects, potential motives, additional outside info, eyewitness accounts, nothing.
Errrmmm are you sure it's baloney, or is it just not what you want to hear? I mean, the gun was tested. It didn't discharge. I'm not sure what more you want to see. I mean it could still discharge, but it appeared it would have been extremely rare.

And like I said, how could she have reached the trigger? and shot herself in the chest if her arms weren't long enough? And it wasn't just the parents that did that experiment from what I recall. They had another expert on the segment that displayed how it would have been impossible for her to reach the trigger. Maybe it was her dad.

If she killed herself without anyone else touching the gun, that would be have been one hell of an attempt.
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Old 01-27-2015, 05:47 AM   #119
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Errrmmm are you sure it's baloney, or is it just not what you want to hear? I mean, the gun was tested. It didn't discharge. I'm not sure what more you want to see. I mean it could still discharge, but it appeared it would have been extremely rare.

And like I said, how could she have reached the trigger? and shot herself in the chest if her arms weren't long enough? And it wasn't just the parents that did that experiment from what I recall. They had another expert on the segment that displayed how it would have been impossible for her to reach the trigger. Maybe it was her dad.

If she killed herself without anyone else touching the gun, that would be have been one hell of an attempt.
Friend, banging a gun on the ground a few times does not qualify as a "scientific experiment." I know that, and I've never touched a gun in my life.

Rare? Perhaps. But it only takes one time.

I think there are many different possibilities as to what happened here, and I've come up with various theories over the years.

Another one I just thought of: since the gun was found on the hood of the car and one of the doors was open, I think perhaps she tossed it on the there with the intent of showing it to the boyfriend to prove her seriousness (but not using it), shutting the car door, grabbing the gun again and going up to the house. She tosses it in frustration and is so mad that she doesn't realize the seriousness of it and it goes off. That's a scenario which makes all the pieces fit.
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Old 01-27-2015, 02:19 PM   #120
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Friend, banging a gun on the ground a few times does not qualify as a "scientific experiment." I know that, and I've never touched a gun in my life.

Rare? Perhaps. But it only takes one time.

I think there are many different possibilities as to what happened here, and I've come up with various theories over the years.

Another one I just thought of: since the gun was found on the hood of the car and one of the doors was open, I think perhaps she tossed it on the there with the intent of showing it to the boyfriend to prove her seriousness (but not using it), shutting the car door, grabbing the gun again and going up to the house. She tosses it in frustration and is so mad that she doesn't realize the seriousness of it and it goes off. That's a scenario which makes all the pieces fit.
I think that's even more improbable though. I still think the most plausible is that she was shot considering she could even reach the trigger of the gun and it was found on the hood of the car. What she apparently said doesn't really prove anything.

As far as the experiment to discharge the gun is concerned, I'm just asking what you would have like to seen to further prove that the gun could or could not discharge.
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