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Old 11-16-2017, 09:10 PM   #196
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Hahaha! I love your first paragraph...

I don't think this was murder, but I put the chances of the gun just going off somewhere around nil. If she had been slamming it on the car, there should have been evidence of that. Also, it is less likely to go off slamming down the long way (horizontal) than banging it on the ground (vertical).

I would absolutely buy the suicide scenario except for the fact it was physically impossible for her to pull the trigger with the gun aimed at her.

I think she was likely suicidal and probably having a breakdown. I think she threatened her boyfriend with this and somehow in a struggle for the weapon, it went off. I would love to hear what the boyfriend had to say to the police. Didn't he say he heard a gun blast but didn't go outside and didn't call the police? That alone should warrant further investigation of him.
Pretty much the conclusion I've come to as well.

Shotgun wounds are apparently some of the easiest by which to estimate how far the end of the barrel was from the victim at the time of shooting too, due to the shot spread. I guess I'm surprised the ME might have been quick to assume it was a contact wound.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:51 PM   #197
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That's too bad. I was looking forward to being your thread BFF for merely sharing your opinion on at least one aspect of this case and having you lead a snark-charge on everybody else.

Bummer. I'll hold out hope for the McClure thread.
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Old 11-19-2017, 01:47 AM   #198
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Wait, I think this thread was about Rae Ann Mossor.

If there had been a struggle over the gun, I would imagine the neighbors would have heard the accompanying shouting and arguing that would have went along with that. Apparently they didn't.

The segment just doesn't make a strong case for murder. Usually, UM would do a good job of presenting suspects, motives, opportunity, etc. This had none of that. It's like chasing ghosts. I'm not surprised nobody has been convicted here. I think it's a colossal leap to assume the boyfriend did it when we know absolutely nothing about him.

Guns do go off accidentally. If the gun is fired and the owner/holder didn't intend to shoot it, then it's an accident.

I know they said Rae Ann was planning on joining the Navy, but considering how hysterical and irrational she was acting, I don't think she would have been a good fit.

It is entirely possible to commit suicide by shotgun. As somebody else said, she probably didn't use her fingers to pull the trigger, but used some object that was nearby.
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Old 11-19-2017, 03:44 AM   #199
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Wait, I think this thread was about Rae Ann Mossor.

If there had been a struggle over the gun, I would imagine the neighbors would have heard the accompanying shouting and arguing that would have went along with that. Apparently they didn't.

The segment just doesn't make a strong case for murder. Usually, UM would do a good job of presenting suspects, motives, opportunity, etc. This had none of that. It's like chasing ghosts. I'm not surprised nobody has been convicted here. I think it's a colossal leap to assume the boyfriend did it when we know absolutely nothing about him.

Guns do go off accidentally. If the gun is fired and the owner/holder didn't intend to shoot it, then it's an accident.

I know they said Rae Ann was planning on joining the Navy, but considering how hysterical and irrational she was acting, I don't think she would have been a good fit.

It is entirely possible to commit suicide by shotgun. As somebody else said, she probably didn't use her fingers to pull the trigger, but used some object that was nearby.
If there was a struggle over the shotgun and it went off, that is not murder. No one is saying the boyfriend went in the house, got the shotgun, loaded it, came out, put it to her chest, and pulled the trigger.

And yes, it absolutely is possible to kill yourself with a shotgun. But wouldn't you say that the police would've pointed out "and here was some object nearby that she used to press the trigger" when called out on the fact that she didn't have freakishly long arms?

The point about the neighbors hearing an argument, though. Did anyone hear her attacking the car with the shotgun? I don't recall that. That takes away the possibility of the shotgun discharging due to her striking it on the car, if not. Because we're under the same logic that they would've heard any words or anything that were said by them. Here's a plausible scenario:

Rae Ann shows up with the shotgun, intending on killing herself OR simply threatening to. She tells this to the boyfriend outside, probably crying and upset. But not screaming. Nor is the boyfriend. He says "Give me that thing before someone gets hurt" and takes the shotgun from her. Not screaming. She says "No" and grabs the barrel to take it back. Maybe the boyfriend has his finger near the trigger when she does this, and her act of trying to pull it back wrenches it in his grip, finger goes to the trigger. Done.

That would not be murder. Nor would it be suicide. The boyfriend freaks out, throws the shotgun on his trunk, and runs inside. Tells the cops he knew nothing about it, because he panics and thinks they won't believe him.

Because we have no idea if they bothered to check for prints, we can't say anything with any certainty, can we?
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Old 11-20-2017, 11:47 PM   #200
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I know they said Rae Ann was planning on joining the Navy, but considering how hysterical and irrational she was acting, I don't think she would have been a good fit.
Hysterical and irrational enough to keenly focus her efforts and still her inevitable tremoring and heavy breathing enough to quickly find an object nearby to craft some kind of makeshift Rube Goldberg machine designed to shoot herself in the chest with a 12-gauge shotgun constructed with a 36-inch barrel though, right?
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:31 AM   #201
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It's obvious what happened. Before I divulge I think we should look at a few things a little more carefully:

1.) Apparently he heard a gunshot, but didn't bother to look outside AT ALL despite having an irate, and hysterical ex-girlfriend just on his property. Not even a peep out the window when the gunshot was coming from your driveway? Sure.

2.) The shotgun being conveniently placed on the trunk of the car.


It's obvious that the boyfriend is lying. I mean, who would go in the house with a girl screaming infront of your house late at night disturbing your neighbors and giving you a bad rep? Not the boyfriend and that's why he came outside with the gun.

I think he brought the gun out to "scare" her away. She's being loud at night airing you out infront of our neighbors. That's not a good look. But I'm also wondering if she threatened/was attempting to damage his car and that's when he went to get the gun, to "scare" her.

Something in that fight led him to get that gun. He aimed it at her, she grabbed it and a fight broke out. During that altercation he pulled the trigger, accidental or purposely I cannot say. After firing the shotgun he dropped it on the hood and ran in the house where "he heard something, but didn't go check it out".

I mean, who would look outside when a gun shot goes off after a heated fight with your ex-girlfriend? That be crazy.

For whatever reason, the police didn't care to investigate this one and just slapped suicide on it. I'm not sure if the boyfriend's family knew higher-ups, or if they just didn't give a damn.

I'm also skeptical about her "threatening to kill herself". That sounds taken out of context. Apparently she said “What do I have to do to prove my love for you”? generally that is followed by "kill myself?" It's just an exaggeration, not an actual suicide threat.

And if she was going to kill herself on his property because "she can't live without him" then why do it next to his car? Why not leave an impression and do it on the doorstep? Killing yourself next to a trunk isn't that romantic, or "dramatic".
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:46 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakbook
It's obvious what happened. Before I divulge I think we should look at a few things a little more carefully:

1.) Apparently he heard a gunshot, but didn't bother to look outside AT ALL despite having an irate, and hysterical ex-girlfriend just on his property. Not even a peep out the window when the gunshot was coming from your driveway? Sure.

2.) The shotgun being conveniently placed on the trunk of the car.


It's obvious that the boyfriend is lying. I mean, who would go in the house with a girl screaming infront of your house late at night disturbing your neighbors and giving you a bad rep? Not the boyfriend and that's why he came outside with the gun.

I think he brought the gun out to "scare" her away. She's being loud at night airing you out infront of our neighbors. That's not a good look. But I'm also wondering if she threatened/was attempting to damage his car and that's when he went to get the gun, to "scare" her.

Something in that fight led him to get that gun. He aimed it at her, she grabbed it and a fight broke out. During that altercation he pulled the trigger, accidental or purposely I cannot say. After firing the shotgun he dropped it on the hood and ran in the house where "he heard something, but didn't go check it out".

I mean, who would look outside when a gun shot goes off after a heated fight with your ex-girlfriend? That be crazy.

For whatever reason, the police didn't care to investigate this one and just slapped suicide on it. I'm not sure if the boyfriend's family knew higher-ups, or if they just didn't give a damn.

I'm also skeptical about her "threatening to kill herself". That sounds taken out of context. Apparently she said “What do I have to do to prove my love for you”? generally that is followed by "kill myself?" It's just an exaggeration, not an actual suicide threat.

And if she was going to kill herself on his property because "she can't live without him" then why do it next to his car? Why not leave an impression and do it on the doorstep? Killing yourself next to a trunk isn't that romantic, or "dramatic".
You always seem to come up with some good theories in a majority of these cases. I don't know why I never thought of this, but it does sound pretty accurate and I can say that sounds more like a fight with a boyfriend than the boyfriend's original story. Yes, I think in some of these cases, maybe the cops take the witness stories at face value as the other witness is "dead" so it's hard to get both sides of the story.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:56 AM   #203
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You always seem to come up with some good theories in a majority of these cases. I don't know why I never thought of this, but it does sound pretty accurate and I can say that sounds more like a fight with a boyfriend than the boyfriend's original story. Yes, I think in some of these cases, maybe the cops take the witness stories at face value as the other witness is "dead" so it's hard to get both sides of the story.
Thanks.

His "lie" was the biggest thing I couldn't let go of. It doesn't make sense, nor does a shotgun placed perfectly on the trunk after it had just been discharged and should've been on the ground with the person who shot themselves with it.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:17 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by freakbook
It's obvious what happened. Before I divulge I think we should look at a few things a little more carefully:

1.) Apparently he heard a gunshot, but didn't bother to look outside AT ALL despite having an irate, and hysterical ex-girlfriend just on his property. Not even a peep out the window when the gunshot was coming from your driveway? Sure.

2.) The shotgun being conveniently placed on the trunk of the car.


It's obvious that the boyfriend is lying. I mean, who would go in the house with a girl screaming infront of your house late at night disturbing your neighbors and giving you a bad rep? Not the boyfriend and that's why he came outside with the gun.

I think he brought the gun out to "scare" her away. She's being loud at night airing you out infront of our neighbors. That's not a good look. But I'm also wondering if she threatened/was attempting to damage his car and that's when he went to get the gun, to "scare" her.

Something in that fight led him to get that gun. He aimed it at her, she grabbed it and a fight broke out. During that altercation he pulled the trigger, accidental or purposely I cannot say. After firing the shotgun he dropped it on the hood and ran in the house where "he heard something, but didn't go check it out".

I mean, who would look outside when a gun shot goes off after a heated fight with your ex-girlfriend? That be crazy.

For whatever reason, the police didn't care to investigate this one and just slapped suicide on it. I'm not sure if the boyfriend's family knew higher-ups, or if they just didn't give a damn.

I'm also skeptical about her "threatening to kill herself". That sounds taken out of context. Apparently she said “What do I have to do to prove my love for you”? generally that is followed by "kill myself?" It's just an exaggeration, not an actual suicide threat.

And if she was going to kill herself on his property because "she can't live without him" then why do it next to his car? Why not leave an impression and do it on the doorstep? Killing yourself next to a trunk isn't that romantic, or "dramatic".
Exactly. Glad you chimed in.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:33 AM   #205
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There is absolutely nothing on newspapers.com about this case. Which I find odd.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:18 AM   #206
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There is absolutely nothing on newspapers.com about this case. Which I find odd.
I signed up for that newspapers.com free trial a while ago thinking it would be a goldmine of information into old cases. What I found was, a majority of cases I typed in, nothing came up (and trust me, these stories were in their local papers at the time.) So, I feel that service still has many more archives to add before it becomes beneficial.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:35 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by hostedbyrobertstack
I signed up for that newspapers.com free trial a while ago thinking it would be a goldmine of information into old cases. What I found was, a majority of cases I typed in, nothing came up (and trust me, these stories were in their local papers at the time.) So, I feel that service still has many more archives to add before it becomes beneficial.
Same.

I did get a few new tidbits about the Tim McClure case as well as Cheryl Kenney, but other than that, I've come up empty handed more often than not.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:16 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakbook
It's obvious what happened. Before I divulge I think we should look at a few things a little more carefully:

1.) Apparently he heard a gunshot, but didn't bother to look outside AT ALL despite having an irate, and hysterical ex-girlfriend just on his property. Not even a peep out the window when the gunshot was coming from your driveway? Sure.

2.) The shotgun being conveniently placed on the trunk of the car.


It's obvious that the boyfriend is lying. I mean, who would go in the house with a girl screaming infront of your house late at night disturbing your neighbors and giving you a bad rep? Not the boyfriend and that's why he came outside with the gun.

I think he brought the gun out to "scare" her away. She's being loud at night airing you out infront of our neighbors. That's not a good look. But I'm also wondering if she threatened/was attempting to damage his car and that's when he went to get the gun, to "scare" her.

Something in that fight led him to get that gun. He aimed it at her, she grabbed it and a fight broke out. During that altercation he pulled the trigger, accidental or purposely I cannot say. After firing the shotgun he dropped it on the hood and ran in the house where "he heard something, but didn't go check it out".


I mean, who would look outside when a gun shot goes off after a heated fight with your ex-girlfriend? That be crazy.

For whatever reason, the police didn't care to investigate this one and just slapped suicide on it. I'm not sure if the boyfriend's family knew higher-ups, or if they just didn't give a damn.
I'm glad someone else here has a reasonable enough amount of logic to have thought of this. I've still seen nothing to indicate that she brought the shotgun. No talk of ownership, no talk of prints, nothing. Him having brought it out in this scenario makes total sense. Simplest answers are usually the most likely, and "inept or lazy police work" definitely is the simplest answer. Not a "one in a million accidental discharge not found during a test designed to make a firearm discharge."
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