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Old 06-23-2005, 01:24 PM   #16
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Can I just ask what the point of this is? If it is to eliminate trader checks, it's not gonna happen. There are always going to be people like me who don't care about thier rating so they don't bother with it. If some asks me to rate them, then I have no problem doing that but I really couldn't care less if they rate me back. Also, there are always going to be new members that don't have ratings yet. There are a bunch of us on here that don't like cps and thats why we aren't on there, we are on here. Please don't try to turn it into that because then I will have to find another place that I like as much as this place. I just kind of see this as a waste of time when I barely have time as it is to do what I love which is trade shows.
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:37 PM   #17
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Basically, I agree with Loren and jasimon1 about this whole idea. What's the point?

Keeping bad traders out in the first place is the way to keep things clean and safe, not some silly feedback system.

For newbies, there is only one way to avoid getting scammed and that is BE SMART. This does not mean base trading decisions on some # derived through a system fraught with 2 major problems:
1. Potential mis-use: As Loren pointed out, but not just the padding of feedback via multiple IPs, one can also get various friends to add to it unjustifiably, and one can also do a large # of legitimate, but small, trades just to get the # up. The old do-20 one-disc-trades to scam somebody for 100 later.
2. Mis-representation: Good, honest traders will have low #s simply because they don't do a lot of trading with people on this board. Also, large lot traders will have less than small lot traders. It takes the same amount of time to make 100 discs whether they're all to be sent to one person or 100 different people, yet 1 person gets 100 +s and the other gets 1. In a system where lazy newbies are going to rely soley on the actual # shown, this scoring system severly handicaps one and hugely benefits the other.

Being smart means either keeping trades small so that the risk is low and/or doing your own research. How does the person come across in emails? What is his/her list like? What is their eBay feedback? What do they say in other posts? Do they start or participate in interesting topics of conversation? What do they have to say when we have quality discussions, or equipment discussions, or format discussions? Do a trader check - don't read just the good and bad, but how enthusiastic about this trader are the respondents? Etc.

A newbie will come here in a couple of months, and if (s)he is not "into" this enough to read the old posts and see what's going on here, they'll just look at this list and see, for instance by his own admission of quantity, that Loren has maybe 200 +s and that Agent 13 isn't far behind, but sadly they don't have what this newbie is looking for. They'll see some other long-time, equally reliable trader, me for instance, with a 5 and I do have what they're looking for. So does the padded scammer, with a rating of 25. What are they going to think and more importantly, what are they going to do? One could put in as many disclaimers as they wanted in an attempt to state up-front how the point system works, what it represents, the potential for mis-use that is beyond the moderator's control etc. but it won't matter because they won't read that either. The actual # will be the almighty determining factor. And the newbie still gets scammed.

The whole purpose of this list, I assume, is to benefit newbies. We old-timers know who here is reliable and who's not. Then why potentially lull newbies into a false sense of security? I say force them to do their own leg-work, it will do them good. There's lots of hints and things to learn in the old posts on this board. If they can't be bothered, they probably should not be in this hobby.

Apologies to all in advance who are expecting to get + feedback from me, I for one will not be participating.
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:41 PM   #18
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I agree with jasimon1. That's why people are here and it might turn out to be a contest for some people. I hope there won't be a point system here. The good traders post is all we need. Anyone not on that list needs to send first.
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collinwood2003
I agree with jasimon1. That's why people are here and it might turn out to be a contest for some people. I hope there won't be a point system here. The good traders post is all we need. Anyone not on that list needs to send first.
very nicely put and right to the point

its whats been talked about for a long while in a small paragraph


BUT, since it looks like the point system will be the law here, its time to be like santa and check the lists and give it up for the good traders

and the dead horse has been beaten to a pulp, now its feedback time
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
please dont run this site anything like cartoon cps, they limit peoples ability to join even thought the membership gives them all kinds of good references--solely for personal reasons by the owne or moderator,

i was a member for about a day at one point and one of the higher ups decided that since i sold dvds, i couldnt be a member--even after the application and verification --references process was completed

to even join the site you must be vouched for on an open posting with all your info, so their feedback system is totaly useless---you have to be known and stood up for by others previous to even getting in the membership--not just hotmail address references , but other members from that particular site
In defense of CPS, they have a strict rule about members not selling publically on-line (ebay, yahoo, etc.). When referred people apply, the owners do a thorough google search to find out if members are selling openly. The reason why they don't allow "sellers" is because of trying to keep above the law as much as possible to keep the group from getting into trouble with the MPAA.

CPS members can also be banned if they don't comply with the established rules (badgering, selling, profiteering, etc.).

You're safe that having such rules would be impossible to impose here because the vast number of members of Sitcomsonline never post on The Trading Post.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but these are my observations.)

Jen
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:33 PM   #21
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I don't know about TJ, but the place where I check IP addresses also gives me a list of neighboring cities/towns. Again, I've said that if you are suspicious of something PM or email me.

This place is NEVER going to be like CPS. The feedback system may be similar, but that's it. So for those who are worrying about that, please don't.

The point of this is to help everyone. Maybe you don't think it'll help you, but I'm sure that it will help someone else. If I were a newbie I'd trade with someone who had a +3 because that means they've had three successful trades.

Those who aren't participating are obviously not going to make the system work, and I'm sure that's just what is wanted too. Why is it when there's change everyone freaks out? I am trying very hard to help you all, and accomodate to everyone.
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combsisthebest

Those who aren't participating are obviously not going to make the system work, and I'm sure that's just what is wanted too. Why is it when there's change everyone freaks out? I am trying very hard to help you all, and accomodate to everyone.
I think you are missing our point completely! I honestly don't care one way or another if this thing works or not. I just think it is completely pointless when we already have things in place like the "good trader post" and honestly, a lot of members on here that get great joy out of exposing scammers. Like I said in a post last week, it seems like we are one big family trying to keep the other members of our family safe. I kinda feel like this new system will tear the family apart in an effort to get points.

I don't mean to be mean but I don't like where this board has gone since Jen stepped down. It seems like the moment she left there were all these new rules to make this board exactly like other boards. Sorry, I just don't like pointless changes.
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasimon1
I think you are missing our point completely! I honestly don't care one way or another if this thing works or not. I just think it is completely pointless when we already have things in place like the "good trader post" and honestly, a lot of members on here that get great joy out of exposing scammers. Like I said in a post last week, it seems like we are one big family trying to keep the other members of our family safe. I kinda feel like this new system will tear the family apart in an effort to get points.

I don't mean to be mean but I don't like where this board has gone since Jen stepped down. It seems like the moment she left there were all these new rules to make this board exactly like other boards. Sorry, I just don't like pointless changes.
I personally am trying my hardest. Kind of ironic since Jen is the one who gave me this idea in a post she made at THIS board. What rules changes? Jen was still around when no selling was started. Sorry, but I just don't agree with you there.

I think that you're choosing to see the negative in this system. You're choosing to believe that people will make this into a competition. Well that's not how I see it. I see it as just another way we're all helping each other out.
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:00 PM   #24
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Like I said before, I don't care about any of this. If you wanna do it, fine, if you don't, don't. If this gets to be a place I don't wanna frequent, I'll leave. No big deal.
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:22 PM   #25
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In defense of combsisthest, he merely took the point system idea recently freshly suggested by cartoondvds, but this wasn't the first time this system was contemplated. When I first started moderating here, TJ mentioned that he'd contemplated a point system similar to ebay but was hesitant about implementing it.

Instead, TJ agreed to first implement the "good traders only" sticky post 2/04, which I thought was better than nothing. (It's hard to read page after page, which is why I thought having a point count would be more of a benefit.)

I did resign from being moderator for various reasons, but I have been overseeing things because I'm addicted to this place, besides the fact that I don't like to see bad traders get the upper hand. I have given combsisthebest insight when warranted, simply because I've had my nose in so many places that I am aware of various situations, at least for the time being. combsisthe best is actually a far better moderator than I will ever be because he doesn't get so emotionally involved, like I do. It comes more naturally to him.

As for things seeming to have slipped since I quit moderating... I don't believe that to be true because I'm not really "gone", just more on the sidelines. These recent bad trader posts come and go. No one gleefully relishes exposing these people, anymore than anyone would enjoy killing flies with a fly swatter (bad example, I know) just for the sake of swatting flies.
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Old 06-23-2005, 04:19 PM   #26
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Kind of on the fence, I like the instant posts when there is a trading problem, but they do get lost in the shuffle at times.

Point system is not my preference.

Basically, I only trade with people I know or know of their reputation. Although I am currently trading with some new people but they have been on here awhile.

I think everybody needs to be smart, don't jump into things. I guess the people who will benefit from a point system are newbies, I am not sure how much it will help me.

Tom D.
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Old 06-23-2005, 04:21 PM   #27
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Default Wow looks like I opened a can of Worms

My apologies to anyone who found my idea intrusive/offensive. I was only trying to state that the current system was confusing as far as "Senior Member" was concerned. I added a couple of suggestions that I thought might make things less confusing for "newbies".

I do realize that most of the discussion is coming from experienced and reliable traders and as such I can definately see that this alone is a huge benefit to "newbies"

Please don't Lynch me if the new system does get started, Perhaps just removing Senior Member or having an actual value to this title may be sufficient.

That was the main source of my original question as it seemed misleading that someone could be a Senior Member and only be around a few months with no sufficient trading background

Remember everyone whether you are for or agianst my ideas, Debate and discussion is a great way to improve your typing skills and vocabulary

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Old 06-23-2005, 04:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cartoondvds
...Please don't Lynch me if the new system does get started...
Couldn't resist. :cannon Jay
I've been waiting for the opportunity to use that machine gun on someone.
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Old 06-23-2005, 04:57 PM   #29
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I really don't like this starting at the bottom. Shouldn't there be like a super star trader automatically. I've lost all my files before March when I got my new computer and I've been trading for 3+ years. I've done trades with Paul Martin, Tubel, Martin Sean, Agent 13, but I can't remember how many trades. How is that going to be fair for past trades? If Mashunter still around he left me with an unfinished trade with his tapes all done before November and I never heard from him again after 3 or 4 trades before.
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Old 06-23-2005, 05:09 PM   #30
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In order to prevent "contests" you merely have to ceiling it at some point. Once you get a certain number of points, you're on a special list that has no more numbers.

The disadvantages of a "just post in the good trader post" system is that scammers have an MO of doing 1-3 good deals before they pull off a heist of a dozen bad ones. A system like this shows who is a reliable veteran, who is new, etc. Feedback like this is a "levels of trust" system. Which is how real life works. It takes time to trust somebody fully.
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