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Old 06-22-2005, 08:34 PM   #1
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i dont like it for a few reasons

it gives the same weight for a point, to a 1 disc trade as it does a 50 disc trade, or more my style, 125 disc trade

it also starts everyone at zero, i worked very hard to be far above zero--why would i want to have to start over---yes we all know whos pretty well known today-- how about next month a new person comes along and looks at the score thing, and decides i am a bum because i only have plus 4

and it allows scammers to rate them selves--a scammer trick now is to use a hotmail as a reference--just what they will do with this system

next, everytime i make a trade, i dont want it public knowledge whom i am tradeing with--some folks only have so much time, and i dont want the followers to jump on everyone i deal with-- i may have worked a long time to cultivate that lead , and now it tuns to public knowledge

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Old 06-22-2005, 09:07 PM   #2
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I believe this point system to be of great value in determining a good trader based on the number of successful trades completed, regardless of the number of discs traded. I'm not concerned with the number of discs in the trade, but only if the trade was completed in a timely manner. The system has served the members of CPS well, and I am glad you're adopting the same system here. Thanks.
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
it also starts everyone at zero, i worked very hard to be far above zero--why would i want to have to start over---yes we all know whos pretty well known today-- how about next month a new person comes along and looks at the score thing, and decides i am a bum because i only have plus 4
CPS has a similar system, and what they do is allow for past trades to be accounted for. You'd be surprised how fast your points will add up if we're allowed to account for all trades, rather than only the ones completed after this system was implemented.

Also, maybe it'd be possible to count the trades already mentioned under "good trader posts", as 1 point for each trade mentioned (?). This is just an idea...

Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
next, everytime i make a trade, i dont want it public knowledge whom i am tradeing with--some folks only have so much time, and i dont want the followers to jump on everyone i deal with-- i may have worked a long time to cultivate that lead , and now it tuns to public knowledge
You could request your traders to not post publically (?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
and it allows scammers to rate them selves--a scammer trick now is to use a hotmail as a reference--just what they will do with this system
TJ can check ISPs if necessary. This is something that will need to be addressed somewhere along the way, I think. (Perhaps requiring traders posting feedback to have been members for a certain length of time?)

If it's at all like eBay or even CPS, another problem is that some people just will not take the time to give feedback, making things lopsided, but overall, I personally think this is a great step!
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Old 06-22-2005, 10:58 PM   #4
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I think the point system is a great idea! I like the idea of new traders getting more exposure so everybody will have more people to trade with and it will help the newbies get more trades rather than being forced to buy dvds from established traders to build their lists.

I agree with "neuroslicer" - it doesn't matter how many discs are in a trade - only that the trade was completed as agreed. This is a hobby for me, not a business and I shouldn't be penalized because I don't trade 1000 discs each month. If I send what I'm supposed to send, when it is supposed to be sent - then I've successfully completed the trade.
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nannyfan

I agree with "neuroslicer" - it doesn't matter how many discs are in a trade - only that the trade was completed as agreed. This is a hobby for me, not a business and I shouldn't be penalized because I don't trade 1000 discs each month. If I send what I'm supposed to send, when it is supposed to be sent - then I've successfully completed the trade.

but then why should i be penalized for makeing a 50 or more disc trade. with a point system that gives the same weight to a 5 disc trade as for a 50 or 100 disc trdae

my trade is 20 times as hard to get correct, because it 20 times as large, 20 times for chance of a problem

the fact that i can get a 50 or 100 disc trade to someone in a very prompt time, and have it correct, certainly deserves a lot more points tahn the 5 disc trades or even the one disc trade that involves one epiosde

of course i can see why people that make small trades woldl love the point syatem, since they get the same credit as i would for a huge one, with very little effort involved
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:55 PM   #6
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I still think - 1 point for 1 trade is fair - regardless of number of dvds in the trade. Trading for 1 dvd or 100, is a personal choice and one has to decide if they are willing to put in the effort to ensure it occurs as agreed.
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Old 06-23-2005, 12:02 AM   #7
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jen-- does have her usual good idea

the idea of giving credit for past trades to current members is completely fair and a good idea--if this point thing is the law

this way people who have built their repiutation over the long period will not be forced to start over at zero

i personaly can think of easily well over 100 transactions i have had with members of this site

and probably at least 10 people who i have had over 5 each

and 1 person at least a dozen transactions, and another one tonight

feedback mis- use

like ebay there will be the problem of payback negatives

lets say a person sends stuff anfd the second person just keeps it and doesnt return anything

the sender make s a negaive comment

well of cousre whats going to happen in about one minute

the thief will payback the sender with a negative of his own

so the honest sender gets jammed for absolutely no reason with a bad mark

this is going to be a problem--just like on ebay

peoeple have stopped giving negatives on ebay --just for this reason

so like ebay feedback, it will not tell an accurate story at all

if i send stuff and another persons steals it

i will be afraid to complain and issue the honest feedback for fear of a paybck


SO TELL ME, EXACTLY WHAT WILL THE FEEDBACK SYSTEM SOLVE

its the same as it is now

i had a serious problem with someone and told the story on this site, she blasted me right back and smeared my name in the mud

another eprson i dealt weith also made a huge mess of a trade and i didnt say a thing until soemone else complained about the same person, i knew they had at elast three problems with sitcom group members

but i was not going to step upo and tell the truth for fear of another run trough the mud, after there was two others already who posted, i told my story and named names . far too late to help some people, but i didnt want to risk another problem like last time

this feedback syatem will mor ethan likely be there same


and as far as people giving themselves feedback, it happens now as well, so that will remain the same too.
tehre is a post right now where this has happened on the front page of the site.

no moderator has the time to monitor every feedback and where it comes from. anyone could sign up at the public library and not be traceable.

i dont see the point thing as solveing any problems .
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Old 06-23-2005, 12:21 AM   #8
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I don't like this system because I have been trading for a long time. How will it work for traders who have been around 3 years or more like me? I don't like to start at the bottom when I am getting out of trading or not doing as much.
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Old 06-23-2005, 12:27 AM   #9
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With all due respect, Loren is misunderstanding the purpose of the point feedback system. Let's be clear here... the goal is to ascertain the likelihood that a trade will be completed. Nothing more. I think we all realize that there's a threshold score above which we can be pretty confident that a trader will come through with a trade. What is that threshold score? I don't know, it probably varies in direct proportion to one's degree of suspicion and paranoia... however, it's my opinion that a person with a score of +25 is equally likely to complete a trade as a person with a score of +75. The purpose of the point feedback system is not to rank the good traders one against the other. If your purpose is just to trade and have fun, then your score and feedback comments will reflect that, plus there will certainly be word of mouth about you amongst other traders which in my mind is equally important. No doubt the posts that we all submit on public and private forums also shapes other's opinions about us as traders. So IMHO, just have fun trading ... worrying about whether your score is a reflection of your complete trading profile is futile ... since that is not what the score is designed to reflect. And no, my trades are typically between 10 and 35 discs ... and I really don't care about what my point score is (I currently have several 37 disc trades that I'm gearing up for).
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Old 06-23-2005, 12:48 AM   #10
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regardles of the purpose of the system, i dont think it will solve anything, or make anything better

people will still give themselves fake good feedback

people will still have multiple usernames

people will still be afraid to tell the truth about a poor trader or experience

poor traders wil still be able to payback honest folks with bad points''

what of this list will be fixed by the point system ????

none that i can see

so why will it help

the same people who are in the good trader posts now, will be the ones with the feedback

newbies will have none, just as now

scammers info wiill be harder to get with the point system due to them padding their ratings by themselves

we still dont really know if a new user is honest and inexperienced on this site, or a scammer

just as it is now

so i honestly dont see any benifit


but if the point system goes into being, and past trades are allowed for points

ill give jay the 3 good reviews from our dealings and be the first to get it going

ill argue its not needed and doesnt solve anything, but if it is the law, i will play by the rules
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:11 AM   #11
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Wow, let me try and address some issues brought about by this new system...

I believe that the one point per trade (regardless of how large the trade is) is fair, and unless there is further objection from multiple other people that will stay in place.

My final decision is that I'm going to allow people to give "reputation points" for previous trades (previous trades is defined as within the last two years). Sound fair?

Scammers are easily taken care of. I can see IP Addresses, and so can TJ. If you think something looks suspicious feel free to PM me, and I'll check on it for you. I've already had someone PM me, and the situation was taken care of.

I agree with Jen on the next point. If you don't want people to know who you're trading with then simply don't post anything, and ask the other person not to post anything. Realize that you're basically posting feedback points not the contents of a trade.

When it comes to abusing the system, that's a risk we're going to have to take. Not only that, but unlike eBay this system will be heavily moderated. For example, say someone posted a negative feedback on Loren because he had a corrupt disc. Before anything was changed on the list, I'd check with Loren and ask him if he's redoing a disc and resending before I'd post a negative reputation on Loren. Remember, TJ and I are the ones who have control of the "ultimate" list.

With all due respect, why don't some of you take a step back and realize the good of this system for the entire community instead of just focusing on yourselves?

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Don't forget that we still have the "Good Traders" thread, that will be available as read-only file. That will stay stickied until this system gets off the ground, and the link will remain in the first post of this thread.

If you want to continue to offer constructive criticism that's welcome, but please don't whine. That kind of gets on my nerves.

Also when posting feedback, please use the screen name of the person at SO. You can include the person's real name in addition if you wish, but I definitely need the screen name. Thanks. Let the feedback begin!
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:34 AM   #12
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I just kind of feel that we have come to a point where this system is totally unneccessary. Look at the posts for the past few weeks. A person posts a trader check and within an hour in most cases if the person is a scammer, they are exposed. We are getting really good at knowing all thier tricks and I honestly believe they are realizing this and staying away for the most part. To be honest, I'll bet no one on here remembers doing a trade with me. I've done a few on here (with some of the most reputable traders might I add) but they are few and far between because I like odd things. I only frequent here on the odd chance that someone might want something I have and since it is so odd I try to help out. I can easily give references of people I'm trading with now if I was to set up a trade but if a person were to only look at my feedback score, they would stay away from me. I think this system creates a situation were the board could loose people like me who have no interest in getting thier score up, I just want people to get stuff that they are interested in.
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:06 AM   #13
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the going back and counting past trades makes a lot of difference from the first idea post, thats very fair to the old timers, everyone doesnt need to start over at zero

the idea of checking out what the story is if there is a negative posted, is very fair--its also a lot of work , but should be much better than the ebay--paypack negative system

the idea to check ip addresses for people giving them selves feedback still sounds all good, but impossible to monitor

i have 5 public libraries close to my house with different free use computers, plus most folks have them at work to use, plus at home. a person would have no problem getting the use of several ip addresses. and therefore several chances to do their own feedbacks.

i must ask people to pm me their sitcoms name if we have traded so i can leave you proper feedback--i know everyone by their street name or by one of the names they used on the many other sites, i am a little fuzzy on some of the names here. so please i didnt forget you, i just dont know your sitcoms handle in many cases

ill answer ever pm asap and post the feedback asap as well--thanks
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Old 06-23-2005, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
the idea to check ip addresses for people giving them selves feedback still sounds all good, but impossible to monitor

i have 5 public libraries close to my house with different free use computers, plus most folks have them at work to use, plus at home. a person would have no problem getting the use of several ip addresses. and therefore several chances to do their own feedbacks.
Loren,

I believe that you of all people will benefit from this system, since you're still trading hot and heavy without an end in sight.

If I'm not mistaken, the ISPs will actually indicate the town/state. If someone's monitoring these thoroughly, that'd be a good tip-off.

This system works very well at CPS; however, that group is moderated with an iron fist (I don't mean that in an unkind way). We may have a few kinks along the way, but combsisthebest is proving to be a remarkably wise moderator.

IMHO
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Old 06-23-2005, 12:23 PM   #15
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Loren,

I believe that you of all people will benefit from this system, since you're still trading hot and heavy without an end in sight.

If I'm not mistaken, the ISPs will actually indicate the town/state. If someone's monitoring these thoroughly, that'd be a good tip-off.

This system works very well at CPS; however, that group is moderated with an iron fist (I don't mean that in an unkind way). We may have a few kinks along the way, but combsisthebest is proving to be a remarkably wise moderator.

IMHO

please dont run this site anything like cartoon cps, they limit peoples ability to join even thought the membership gives them all kinds of good references--solely for personal reasons by the owne or moderator,

i was a member for about a day at one point and one of the higher ups decided that since i sold dvds, i couldnt be a member--even after the application and verification --references process was completed

to even join the site you must be vouched for on an open posting with all your info, so their feedback system is totaly useless---you have to be known and stood up for by others previous to even getting in the membership--not just hotmail address references , but other members from that particular site

so what does their feedback system show, activity only

why does this site have a great number of really good traders, because they were screened before they got in, the feedback system has nothing at all to do with it--they were very good and great tarders to begin with--

thats the reason it has nothing in common with sitcoms site, this site is open to any and all, good, bad , really bad and really good alike

even people who are known thieves and scammers are allowed to sign up and rejoin a number of times on the sitcoms site, without getting run

and please, before i get piled on, the moderators do have their ip addy as well, and that doesnt seem to matter either

next

ip adresses, im my case, i live within 10 miles of the following towns with libraries, reedsburg, rocksprings, baraboo, lake delton, wi dells, and la farge wisconsin

its very easy to have several ip addresses that will not trip a red flag because they are all from different cities and providers.

further most newer motel-hotels have wireless connections for free, a scammer can go sit in the hotel lobby and scam away

remember a couple weeks ago a dude was scamming --he was homeless and was useing a public computer to bilk several folks

also in a huge town like chicago, there could be many people on the same internet provider, and it doesnt mean they are scammers

the idea sounds real good, but in practice, not rally
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