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Old 07-23-2019, 06:28 PM   #166
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I'm starting to suspect that she may be the culprit after all.
Come to think of it, Rob doesn't have a solid alibi for the time of Dick's murder...
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:35 PM   #167
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Come to think of it, Rob doesn't have a solid alibi for the time of Dick's murder...

EDIT: Oh, I just caught your sarcasm. For whatever reason I thought you were mentioning Robin from his podcast. Hilarious.
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:26 PM   #168
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EDIT: Oh, I just caught your sarcasm. For whatever reason I thought you were mentioning Robin from his podcast. Hilarious.
I was hoping you’d appreciate that!
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:09 PM   #169
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I was hoping you’d appreciate that!


It was a slow moment for sure
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Old 07-25-2019, 10:12 AM   #170
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Come to think of it, Rob doesn't have a solid alibi for the time of Dick's murder...
I wonder what LooksLikeCRicci will think of that angle
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:03 PM   #171
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I wonder what LooksLikeCRicci will think of that angle
I really feel compelled to have a "Rob did it" shirt at this point.
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Old 07-26-2019, 10:27 AM   #172
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I really feel compelled to have a "Rob did it" shirt at this point.


Same
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:39 AM   #173
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I listened to Robin's podcast on this one yesterday morning getting ready for work. I guess I never really thought about the differences between the UM and Dates From Hell episodes. The potential of the latter taking liberal artistic license is certainly annoying--and if that little altercation about "not visiting me in rehab" is an exaggeration or outright fabrication, that's insulting to Dick. In any event, I do appreciate the episode for the additional context it provides the 49ers theory through the revelation that Dick was often mistaken for Harris Barton and the backstory regarding that previous Super Bowl. I'm not sure many of us would've been able to come to any of those conclusions on our own.

If there's any validity to the disgruntled fan theory, the perpetrator would've almost certainly had to have seen Dick earlier in the night, followed the pair throughout whatever remainder of the evening existed, and pursued the pair back to Dick's truck. People are generally pretty unaware of their surroundings--especially when they're with other people--so I'm not sure I would expect either Dick or Jean to have noticed they were being watched and/or followed prior to the man pulling up behind them. But I do think it's somewhat remarkable.

I also find it interesting that, if the man had a suspicion that Dick was Harris Barton, that he chose not to contact Dick and Jean on the street at the mailbox. He trailed them for over ten miles first, and even after being contacted by Dick when they all pulled over in Sunnyvale, he never once exited his vehicle. The way he behaved was actually characteristically rather passive. Perhaps that had something to do with Dick's physical stature, but obviously the perpetrator was armed. So that's something I have questions about: why stalk a couple of people, but wait for them to realize it and then force them into a position that they come TO you?

As Robin said on TTWC episode, it's probably ultimately a little difficult to apply logic to such a case. But this guy's behavior was remarkably bizarre.
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Old 07-31-2019, 11:23 AM   #174
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I listened to Robin's podcast on this one yesterday morning getting ready for work. I guess I never really thought about the differences between the UM and Dates From Hell episodes. The potential of the latter taking liberal artistic license is certainly annoying--and if that little altercation about "not visiting me in rehab" is an exaggeration or outright fabrication, that's insulting to Dick. In any event, I do appreciate the episode for the additional context it provides the 49ers theory through the revelation that Dick was often mistaken for Harris Barton and the backstory regarding that previous Super Bowl. I'm not sure many of us would've been able to come to any of those conclusions on our own.

If there's any validity to the disgruntled fan theory, the perpetrator would've almost certainly had to have seen Dick earlier in the night, followed the pair throughout whatever remainder of the evening existed, and pursued the pair back to Dick's truck. People are generally pretty unaware of their surroundings--especially when they're with other people--so I'm not sure I would expect either Dick or Jean to have noticed they were being watched and/or followed prior to the man pulling up behind them. But I do think it's somewhat remarkable.

I also find it interesting that, if the man had a suspicion that Dick was Harris Barton, that he chose not to contact Dick and Jean on the street at the mailbox. He trailed them for over ten miles first, and even after being contacted by Dick when they all pulled over in Sunnyvale, he never once exited his vehicle. The way he behaved was actually characteristically rather passive. Perhaps that had something to do with Dick's physical stature, but obviously the perpetrator was armed. So that's something I have questions about: why stalk a couple of people, but wait for them to realize it and then force them into a position that they come TO you?

As Robin said on TTWC episode, it's probably ultimately a little difficult to apply logic to such a case. But this guy's behavior was remarkably bizarre.
Something to keep in mind though, is that in the DFH episode she said that Dick asked her why she didn't visit him in rehab, then he started drinking and became loud and abusive. He was even being rude to the server. His loud behavior would certainly draw attention to someone, so I'm wondering if the perp was someone in the restaurant who had a hero complex and thought he'd follow them to make sure that Jane wasn't hurt. The 49er theory isn't bad, but if Dick was being loud and abusive then we could've had a vigilante on our hands. Perhaps he followed them and allowed himself to remain hidden was to see if Dick would put his hands on or yell at Jane again.

Something else I'd like to point out is WHY WOULD JANE CONTINUE TO GO WITH DICK?! After she said that he was being loud and abusive, why in the world would she agree to still go with him? Weird.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:01 PM   #175
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If there's any validity to the disgruntled fan theory, the perpetrator would've almost certainly had to have seen Dick earlier in the night, followed the pair throughout whatever remainder of the evening existed, and pursued the pair back to Dick's truck. People are generally pretty unaware of their surroundings--especially when they're with other people--so I'm not sure I would expect either Dick or Jean to have noticed they were being watched and/or followed prior to the man pulling up behind them. But I do think it's somewhat remarkable.
I'm not sure what to make of the "Dates from Hell" segment. I hate those kind of shows with the cheesy reenactments and the overly dramatic acting. Since Jean was on the show, I have to believe most of what they said is correct or you'd think she would have told them to fix it. They certainly tried to play up the extra relationship drama. I don't doubt that UM left a few things out, but I'm curious why Jean would bring that up later. It honestly doesn't seem relevant to the killing unless in hindsight she thinks something at the restaurant started this.

What's interesting is when the Jean actress said "That's the guy from the restaurant." So they are heavily implying that this started earlier and that Jean and Dick were followed. I tend to agree with that.

The more I think about it, the more I discount the mistaken 49er theory. It would be a lot to kill someone just over that, and I still think Jean was more the source of his rage. If he was pointing at her car, then he was mad at her or something she had done (in the car or before).

I think this was just a random killing over some dumb act. The killer either got worked up into a rage and went too far, or when confronted by Dick, he got scared and shot him out of self-defense (in his own mind).

I think we can all agree that the wig Jean wore in DFH was the worst disguise ever...
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:26 PM   #176
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I still think Jean was more the source of his rage. If he was pointing at her car, then he was mad at her or something she had done (in the car or before).
Why would he be mad at Jean? And if he was really mad at Jean he had an opportunity to kill her after he killed Dick and apparently stared at her before pulling off.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:47 PM   #177
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Why would he be mad at Jean? And if he was really mad at Jean he had an opportunity to kill her after he killed Dick and apparently stared at her before pulling off.
My guess is that he was more annoyed or irritated than deathly mad. I see this as a road rage type of thing. It may have been true road rage from something Jean did on the road or in the parking lot, or he may have been pissed from something they did in the restaurant.

My best guess is that he was mad and just messing with them. I've had people follow me before on the road a couple times. Once for no reason that I knew of, and once because I accidentally cut a guy off and he was a psycho. I never knew what their end game was. The first one that followed me eventually gave up and the second guy was all over my rear end until I pulled into the police station parking lot and then he took off. I think this guy was the type who wanted to follow her and try and scare her for "offending" him. I don't think he ever meant to harm them (at least not murder them).

I think when Dick went back to talk to him, he said "That b**** cut me off" or whatever, and Dick said "Get the f*** out of here!" The guy probably panicked and shot Dick because he thought he was about to get his ass kicked by a giant, muscular dude.

I may be off base, but I think this was a dumb situation that escalated and I think he wanted to scare Jean but probably never meant to kill anyone. That's why he didn't kill her when he had the chance. He left a witness but he was probably more scared and realized it wasn't worth it. The killer knew he shot Dick but he wouldn't have known he was dead right away, so in his mind he left two living witnesses.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:38 PM   #178
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My guess is that he was more annoyed or irritated than deathly mad. I see this as a road rage type of thing. It may have been true road rage from something Jean did on the road or in the parking lot, or he may have been pissed from something they did in the restaurant.

My best guess is that he was mad and just messing with them. I've had people follow me before on the road a couple times. Once for no reason that I knew of, and once because I accidentally cut a guy off and he was a psycho. I never knew what their end game was. The first one that followed me eventually gave up and the second guy was all over my rear end until I pulled into the police station parking lot and then he took off. I think this guy was the type who wanted to follow her and try and scare her for "offending" him. I don't think he ever meant to harm them (at least not murder them).

I think when Dick went back to talk to him, he said "That b**** cut me off" or whatever, and Dick said "Get the f*** out of here!" The guy probably panicked and shot Dick because he thought he was about to get his ass kicked by a giant, muscular dude.

I may be off base, but I think this was a dumb situation that escalated and I think he wanted to scare Jean but probably never meant to kill anyone. That's why he didn't kill her when he had the chance. He left a witness but he was probably more scared and realized it wasn't worth it. The killer knew he shot Dick but he wouldn't have known he was dead right away, so in his mind he left two living witnesses.
The road rage theory is very plausible, very hard to argue against it. However, the "killer" seemed awfully chill for someone with road rage. He sat parked behind them two while they were talking and didn't do or say anything. Even after they all pulled over Dick came to him while he just sat there. Perhaps you're right and he just wanted to mess with them, but Dick backed away from his car and told him to get out of there so he didn't have to shoot Dick, unless it was out of anger.

Also if Jean was the one who cut him off and pissed him off why didn't he attack or shoot her after he shot dick? Jean said he sat there and stared at her for like 5 seconds before pulling off. Not only did he leave a witness, but he purposefully exposed his face to her and didn't do anything.

Granted, I have my doubts on Jean story and this "killer" as a whole, but eh...
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Old 08-01-2019, 12:51 PM   #179
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The potential of the latter taking liberal artistic license is certainly annoying--and if that little altercation about "not visiting me in rehab" is an exaggeration or outright fabrication, that's insulting to Dick. In any event, I do appreciate the episode for the additional context it provides the 49ers theory through the revelation that Dick was often mistaken for Harris Barton and the backstory regarding that previous Super Bowl. I'm not sure many of us would've been able to come to any of those conclusions on our own.
The rehab thing was legitimate. I remember reading that in an older article (which I can't find now) where Dick's father was the one who proposed the blocked mailbox theory. Jean herself is quoted in the episode as saying that they did in fact argue about her not visiting him in rehab and falling off the wagon. Even though these shows are definitely hokey with a lot of their re-enactments, I think they used this information to trick viewers into assuming that Dick was going to be the one who was the "date from Hell", when in fact, he turned out to be the victim. UM solely focused on the night of Dick's murder and not his personal background.

Dick had several friends interviewed in the episode too which said he was well known in the area, was very social, and would often be mistaken for Harris Barton. My own personal theory is as to why this wasn't mentioned in the UM segment was because they didn't want to "inspire" copy cat like killings or maybe they didn't want to identify Barton by name since he was still playing in the NFL when the segment aired.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:48 PM   #180
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The other reason that I don't think this was premeditated murder is there was no face-to-face confrontation until Dick went to confront his eventual killer. If this started before the mailbox location, why didn't the killer get out and walk up to Jean and Dick when they were parked in the car? You can say because it was a more populated area, but the killer had no idea where Jean and/or Dick were headed when they drove away. They could have kept driving for a long time, split up, or driven to a police station or somewhere similar. He might never have had the chance to kill them if that's what his original intention was.

Even AFTER they pulled off the freeway and onto the road, he didn't get out of his car -- it was Dick that got out and walked over to him. That is why I really think he was just trying to scare them or intimidate them, or possibly work up the courage to be more violent. But if he really wanted one or both of them dead, why was he so passive about it? This is why I think this was more a chance encounter that pissed this guy off and set off his short fuse temper. When Dick went to talk to him, he either popped with rage or panicked that he was going to be hurt and shot Dick before driving away.
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