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Old 06-11-2010, 04:12 PM   #61
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Quote:
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The sock pretty much dismisses that possibility. They where also shot by the same gun if I remember correctly....
Not if they're brothers and use the same vehicle to commit their separate crimes. The socks belonged to Annette Schnee. She was, LE has theorized, murdered first. In her haste, she failed to replace one of the orange socks, leaving it in the van. It later comes out as Bobbie Jo tries to escape. The socks don't discount the theory at all. I guess I should've been a bit clearer there.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:41 PM   #62
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I don't think we know for sure that the orange socks were Annette's. She was already wearing longer white and red striped socks when she hitched the ride out of Breckenridge. After she was raped, she was allowed to get dressed but couldn't find one of her white socks (it was later found in her coat pocket once her body was found.)



Those orange socks were little booties. Certainly not the kind of socks you'd wear in that part of Colorado where the Winter temperature reaches below zero more often than not.

I think the socks might have belonged to the girlfriend or wife of the killer and they happened to be in the van that night.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:04 PM   #63
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Thanks, dynoguy. I was always under the impression that they were hers as she put one on, but I suppose it never occured to me that the orange socks could've been there before Annette ever got in the vehicle.

That photograph is chilling. All of the evidence photos from this case are, really.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:43 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
Not if they're brothers and use the same vehicle to commit their separate crimes. The socks belonged to Annette Schnee. She was, LE has theorized, murdered first. In her haste, she failed to replace one of the orange socks, leaving it in the van. It later comes out as Bobbie Jo tries to escape. The socks don't discount the theory at all. I guess I should've been a bit clearer there.
So do you mean both brothers were in the Van or that they worked separately? If so where was the other brother when he was not in the Van?
Either way that theory don't seem plausible.
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:33 PM   #65
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So do you mean both brothers were in the Van or that they worked separately? If so where was the other brother when he was not in the Van?
Either way that theory don't seem plausible.
It's not that implausible at all.

What I mean is, one brother went out and killed Annette--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. Where the other brother was during that time is irrelevant. Later, the other brother takes the van--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. He kills Bobbie Jo. The premise, as it goes, was that the brothers had committed similar crimes, together as well as separately. When the first brother came home and told the second brother what had transpired earlier, it excited and compelled him to commit a crime of his own.

Check out the "Can You Help Investigators?" box:

http://parkbull.com/newsextra/080202dnadatabase.html
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:30 PM   #66
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Not if they're brothers and use the same vehicle to commit their separate crimes.
are the crimes separated by DNA?? If not, unless they are twin brothers, it's likely one man did this.
She was, LE has theorized, murdered first. In her haste, she failed to replace one of the orange socks, leaving it in the van.
it showed in the segment that she couldnt find her own sock and put on an orange booty.
It later comes out as Bobbie Jo tries to escape. The socks don't discount the theory at all.
yep, Bobby kicked the sock out, As for the theory, you are right, the socks dont discount your theory, i could agree with you theory IF i knew DNA evidence shows that two men did this. If it shows it, then it could be two brothers.
It's not that implausible at all.
your right, it's not, it could happen.

What I mean is, one brother went out and killed Annette--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. Where the other brother was during that time is irrelevant. Later, the other brother takes the van--alone, by himself, with no one accompanying him. He kills Bobbie Jo. The premise, as it goes, was that the brothers had committed similar crimes, together as well as separately. When the first brother came home and told the second brother what had transpired earlier, it excited and compelled him to commit a crime of his own.
if i hear that this case has two cases sepearted by DNA, i could buy into this theory, if not, then i think the case could be like this. Two men were together, one was dropped off, while the other one was out looking for victims, but that's only if we find out that both women were killed by the same man.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
People use rape to torture and humiliate people all the time.
There's a big difference between the two: intent.

Non-sadistic rapists use rape to overpower women and use them for sexual gratification and dominance. They overwhelm the woman, rape her, then let her go/kill her.

Sexual sadists use rape as one of the tools for the explicit aim to inflict pain and humiliate the victim for the sexual pleasure of it. What's important is not the power, nor the sex, but pain and suffering as sexual gratification. The sadist will seek to make it last in time until he has had his kicks, then he will let her go/kill her if she hasn't already died of shock or her wounds.

One cannot be a sexual sadist if he or she doesn't derive sexual pleasure from the suffering inflicted on others. It's how they frame it.

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Old 10-17-2010, 11:48 AM   #68
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As many of you know, the Oberholtzer/Schnee murder case was featured on a short lived television program called "Sensing Murder" in 2006. I was able to buy all the episodes on DVD from Amazon.com for just $9.00.

I've uploaded the entire episode to the forbidden site if anyone wants to watch it. Just send me a pm and I'll give you the links which have 3 parts.

Some things I liked about this special:

*The police detectives and psychics go to the exact locations of where the women's bodies were found. So you get to see what the surrounding area looks like during the daytime. It's beautiful up in the mountains but very remote.

*One of the psychics takes a detective to the area she believes Annette was raped and murdered. It's a rock quarry on private property about 3 miles from the creek where her body was found.

*A couple people from the Unsolved Mysteries segment that you might recognize although they have obviously aged; Jeff Oberholtzer and Det. Jim Hardtke are interviewed again.

*Tons and tons of pictures of Bobbie and Annette. Both women really were beautiful.

*Plenty of crime scene photographs and pictures of evidence.

*The psychics trace the women's final moments extremely accurately and add some interesting tidbits of what they feel motivated the crimes.

Again, just send me a note if you would like to watch this and I'll pass the links along to you.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:09 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Guardian
How so? Just to put them at ease? That isn't the general MO of a serial killer/rapist. Rarely would there be an accomplice much less a woman accomplice. Not impossible I suppose, just doesn't seem likely.
I guess you haven't heard of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka...
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Old 10-17-2010, 10:40 PM   #70
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He said it was unlikely, not impossible. Bernardo/Homolka is kind of a rare, extreme case.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:01 PM   #71
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[QUOTE=dynoguy88]As many of you know, the Oberholtzer/Schnee murder case was featured on a short lived television program called "Sensing Murder" in 2006.
hmm..didnt know that, i hope they put this case on another show so we can find out other information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
Some things I liked about this special:

*The police detectives and psychics go to the exact locations of where the women's bodies were found. So you get to see what the surrounding area looks like during the daytime. It's beautiful up in the mountains but very remote.
hmmm....interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
*One of the psychics takes a detective to the area she believes Annette was raped and murdered. It's a rock quarry on private property about 3 miles from the creek where her body was found.
from the segment, it showed her being raped in a van, i dont know where it was, but hopefully they find the guy or guys who did this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
*A couple people from the Unsolved Mysteries segment that you might recognize although they have obviously aged; Jeff Oberholtzer and Det. Jim Hardtke are interviewed again.
not a shock because Jeff is the husband and the Det. is the guy investigating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
*The psychics trace the women's final moments extremely accurately and add some interesting tidbits of what they feel motivated the crimes.
what did they say motivated the crimes and do the psychics say the same person did it??? i heard some opinions of it being two guys, i think it was only one though, my guess is that the motivation is he wanted to sexually assault them.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:03 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwcarolina
what did they say motivated the crimes and do the psychics say the same person did it??? i heard some opinions of it being two guys, i think it was only one though, my guess is that the motivation is he wanted to sexually assault them.
One of the psychics said she felt Annette Schnee's murder was committed by two men, and that one of those two men also committed Bobbie Oberholtzer's murder. The idea, she felt, was that Oberholtzer's murder excited this man, which in turn excited the second man, who resolved to go out with the first man for a crime to commit together.
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:11 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
One of the psychics said she felt Annette Schnee's murder was committed by two men, and that one of those two men also committed Bobbie Oberholtzer's murder. The idea, she felt, was that Oberholtzer's murder excited this man, which in turn excited the second man, who resolved to go out with the first man for a crime to commit together.
The feeling was that both men were friends and they were both present for the murder of Annette. It is believed that both men might have raped her as well. But obviously only one of them can pull the trigger. According to the psychic, the smaller man came up with the idea to do this to Annette and he needed his friend to help him dispose of her body. So once she was dead, she was placed in the trunk of the guy's car and driven 3 miles away to the creek where her body would be found 6 months later. As far as the rape itself, it seems the circumstances around it match what happened in the UM segment. She was sexually assaulted in a vehicle and then appeared to get dressed in a hurry. She might have tried to flee once she got dressed but she was eventually shot in the back.

The bigger guy who helped his friend roll Annette's body into the creek apparently got some sort of sick high off this and drove by himself into Breckenridge where he picked up Bobbie, tried to rape her and then killed her on top of Hoosier Pass. Her death was much more cut and dry then Annette's because Bobbie's body was found so much sooner.

It is also interesting to note that the other psychic came up with possible names of these two men which were bleeped out. Apparently one of these men drove the type of car seen in the psychic's vision of Annette's murder and he bought a gun a week before the murders took place. This man eventually was killed in the 90's after trying to rob a bank. All we know about the other man from the psychic (which we were allowed to see on TV) was that he was not a highly educated man. He had come on to Bobbie in the past and she had always wished he would just go away. After the murders, he left the area but came back many times because his mother still lives there. Police have run DNA samples on both men but the results obviously were not made public. I guess it takes a while to find out.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:23 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynoguy88
The feeling was that both men were friends and they were both present for the murder of Annette. It is believed that both men might have raped her as well. But obviously only one of them can pull the trigger. According to the psychic, the smaller man came up with the idea to do this to Annette and he needed his friend to help him dispose of her body. So once she was dead, she was placed in the trunk of the guy's car and driven 3 miles away to the creek where her body would be found 6 months later. As far as the rape itself, it seems the circumstances around it match what happened in the UM segment. She was sexually assaulted in a vehicle and then appeared to get dressed in a hurry. She might have tried to flee once she got dressed but she was eventually shot in the back.

The bigger guy who helped his friend roll Annette's body into the creek apparently got some sort of sick high off this and drove by himself into Breckenridge where he picked up Bobbie, tried to rape her and then killed her on top of Hoosier Pass. Her death was much more cut and dry then Annette's because Bobbie's body was found so much sooner.

It is also interesting to note that the other psychic came up with possible names of these two men which were bleeped out. Apparently one of these men drove the type of car seen in the psychic's vision of Annette's murder and he bought a gun a week before the murders took place. This man eventually was killed in the 90's after trying to rob a bank. All we know about the other man from the psychic (which we were allowed to see on TV) was that he was not a highly educated man. He had come on to Bobbie in the past and she had always wished he would just go away. After the murders, he left the area but came back many times because his mother still lives there. Police have run DNA samples on both men but the results obviously were not made public. I guess it takes a while to find out.
Wow, that's really interesting. It seems like a plausible theory too - hopefully the DNA will prove something.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:57 AM   #75
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When it comes to psychics and murder cases I want to quote myself...

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I think many times psychics destroys more than they help in a case. As to why the psychics is "spot on" many times is because they know the case. It is simply not believable that they did not have a lot of information on this case and all other cases on Sensing Murder. These are well know cases and a psychic are more interested in murder cases than a average person. They lie when they say that they know nothing about the cases. And this lie tells me that these people are not helping, on the contrary they are confusing and damaging the investigation. I have seen a lot of the episodes of Sensing Murder and not one new thing have "they" come up with. Not a single thing. What is the name of the killer, where is the licenses plate number, where does the killer live. Just bull**** like: I'm inside the head of the killer now, I can feel the victims pain, she is okay where she is now (talking to the victims parents).
But it is always good to have a case on the TV anyway. But I don't understand the concept of these programs: The lesser you know the better. This is of course bull****. The more information you have even if you are so called a psychic the better. And stop pretending you know nothing because you wanna impress with your psychic ability's; Deb Webber, Sue Nicholson, Kelvin Cruickshank and the rest.
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