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Old 12-01-2010, 11:09 AM   #106
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Especially that last photo one of the girls took, of the water just at the beginning of that final, fateful sunset.
May Oba Chandler rot, and may a special place in Hell be waiting just for him.
I wrote a research paper on this case and Oba Chandler in general for a class I took in college and for that paper, I contacted a journalist at the St. Petersburg Times who covered this case. He told me that Oba is still alive and on death row and with the current time-line that Florida is executing inmates, Oba may end up dying in prison rather than by lethal injection.
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:00 PM   #107
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Chandler doesn't match the description of the man last seen w/ Ms. Ray. And there's no record of him being "active" in the PCB area.

Mastermind, is that you? Sorry if its not, but your writing is just like (aside from the lack of spelling errors) my old main man Mastermind.
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Old 12-20-2010, 02:01 PM   #108
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Mastermind, is that you? Sorry if its not, but your writing is just like (aside from the lack of spelling errors) my old main man Mastermind.
Sorry.
Not Mastermind.
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:42 PM   #109
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I'd just like to touch on a few things that have been mentioned in this thread. I'm from PCB and these are the comments that stood out to me.

1. This location was by no means a "seedy area" most motels along the strip back then were older but they were nice. It's not a place where you see prostitutes, drug dealers etc walking around.

2. Someone mentioned maybe Pamela walked to the motel behind Whilhite, the only thing behind that motel or the countless others on that side of Front beach road is miles and miles of white sandy beaches and the gulf of mexico.

3. I don't think it's weird that she traveled at night with her children. When my kids were little, I preferred traveling at night so they could sleep. I do. however, find it odd that she would lock up the car and go walking around and talking to strangers etc.

4. Someone mentioned that it was odd that there weren't many cars visible in the reenactment. I just wanted to point out that that video was shot during the off season.

5. I have a hard time believing there were no pay phones in this area during that time. This is area where hundreds of thousands college kid come for spring break so I just don't believe there were no pay phones when during a time when there were no cell phones. But if that were the case, then she should have got in her car and drove to a store. This was PCB in the middle of August, the place wasn't shut down.

That's all I can think of for now, but this case never made sense to me. Also there was another case very similar to this one that happened on PCB just a few years ago. I can't think of her name right now, but she was older and I think her name may have also been Pam. She disappeared from a hotel on Thomas Drive.

PS... all of these small motels have since been replaced with sky rise condos... Trust me, it was much prettier and nicer with the old mom and pop places you called seedy.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:22 PM   #110
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I'd just like to touch on a few things that have been mentioned in this thread. I'm from PCB and these are the comments that stood out to me.

1. This location was by no means a "seedy area" most motels along the strip back then were older but they were nice. It's not a place where you see prostitutes, drug dealers etc walking around.

2. Someone mentioned maybe Pamela walked to the motel behind Whilhite, the only thing behind that motel or the countless others on that side of Front beach road is miles and miles of white sandy beaches and the gulf of mexico.

3. I don't think it's weird that she traveled at night with her children. When my kids were little, I preferred traveling at night so they could sleep. I do. however, find it odd that she would lock up the car and go walking around and talking to strangers etc.

4. Someone mentioned that it was odd that there weren't many cars visible in the reenactment. I just wanted to point out that that video was shot during the off season.

5. I have a hard time believing there were no pay phones in this area during that time. This is area where hundreds of thousands college kid come for spring break so I just don't believe there were no pay phones when during a time when there were no cell phones. But if that were the case, then she should have got in her car and drove to a store. This was PCB in the middle of August, the place wasn't shut down.

That's all I can think of for now, but this case never made sense to me. Also there was another case very similar to this one that happened on PCB just a few years ago. I can't think of her name right now, but she was older and I think her name may have also been Pam. She disappeared from a hotel on Thomas Drive.

PS... all of these small motels have since been replaced with sky rise condos... Trust me, it was much prettier and nicer with the old mom and pop places you called seedy.
Good to hear from somebody in PCB. Several things though:

1) Clearly the Wilhite was nowhere near the upper echelons of vacation motels as it didn't have phones in the rooms (something that even Motel 6 had at the time) and people staying there didn't think too much of hearing screams at 5 am.

2) Traveling at night,while easier for some, is usually poor idea in my experience. The chances of hitting something in the road,experiencing vehicle problems and not finding any place to take your car, and falling asleep are just too great for it to be practical, IMHO.

The part that I found odd was that Ms. Ray would drive to a busy vacation area w/o having a confirmed room reservation or apparently having any backup plan. While doing this alone might be reasonable, doing this w/ young children was a very questionable decision.

3) One thing that I never understood is that nobody was outside having a smoke at that time. While this was in the days of smoking in all rooms of a motel, people who couldn't sleep often went outside to smoke so as not to disturb others in the room.

I'm all surprised that someone wasn't outside burning one and heard or saw something that would help this case.

4) The payphone part is confusing. While I probably wouldn't stay in a motel in the US (or Canada) w/o a phone, I would definitely not stay in one that didn't at least have a payphone on the property.

Never mind what happened to Ms. Ray; what if you had a medical emergency? This is why I find so hard to believe that not one of the Wilhite's guests used the payphone to contact the police after they heard the screams. If nothing else , screaming might mean something that would a source of danger to the listener.

A number of things about this case don't make sense and it would have been nice if teh police had brought their A-game
in on this one. IMHO, this probably could have been solved shortly after it occurred had there been intense pressure put upon PCB's police department.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:14 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandyPCB

1. This location was by no means a "seedy area" most motels along the strip back then were older but they were nice. It's not a place where you see prostitutes, drug dealers etc walking around.

2. Someone mentioned maybe Pamela walked to the motel behind Whilhite, the only thing behind that motel or the countless others on that side of Front beach road is miles and miles of white sandy beaches and the gulf of mexico.

3. I don't think it's weird that she traveled at night with her children. When my kids were little, I preferred traveling at night so they could sleep. I do. however, find it odd that she would lock up the car and go walking around and talking to strangers etc.



That's all I can think of for now, but this case never made sense to me. Also there was another case very similar to this one that happened on PCB just a few years ago. I can't think of her name right now, but she was older and I think her name may have also been Pam. She disappeared from a hotel on Thomas Drive.

PS... all of these small motels have since been replaced with sky rise condos... Trust me, it was much prettier and nicer with the old mom and pop places you called seedy.


Thank you for repeating some of the same points that I have been trying to get across here.

I think I remember the case you are referring to. Was this an older lady, probably in her 50s? There were flyers about her disappearance posted here in my town. it made me think of the Ray case when I saw them.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:20 AM   #112
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Did the segment specifically say that there were no phones in the rooms or was it a poster on this board? I don't remember it being on the segment.

Also, my sister in law had to take a self defense class that her company was offering to pay for for anyone who wanted to attend. During the class, the police officer who was teaching it said if you're ever in trouble/being attacked and in a public place, do not yell "HELP!!" because very few people will actually help you. They said to instead scream "FIRE!!!" as loud as you can as people will respond to that much quicker. If PJR was screaming while being abducted and yelling for help, its very possible that people heard it but just ignored it because they did not want to be involved.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:25 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
Good to hear from somebody in PCB. Several things though:

1) Clearly the Wilhite was nowhere near the upper echelons of vacation motels as it didn't have phones in the rooms (something that even Motel 6 had at the time) and people staying there didn't think too much of hearing screams at 5 am.

2) Traveling at night,while easier for some, is usually poor idea in my experience. The chances of hitting something in the road,experiencing vehicle problems and not finding any place to take your car, and falling asleep are just too great for it to be practical, IMHO.

The part that I found odd was that Ms. Ray would drive to a busy vacation area w/o having a confirmed room reservation or apparently having any backup plan. While doing this alone might be reasonable, doing this w/ young children was a very questionable decision.

3) One thing that I never understood is that nobody was outside having a smoke at that time. While this was in the days of smoking in all rooms of a motel, people who couldn't sleep often went outside to smoke so as not to disturb others in the room.

I'm all surprised that someone wasn't outside burning one and heard or saw something that would help this case.

4) The payphone part is confusing. While I probably wouldn't stay in a motel in the US (or Canada) w/o a phone, I would definitely not stay in one that didn't at least have a payphone on the property.

Never mind what happened to Ms. Ray; what if you had a medical emergency? This is why I find so hard to believe that not one of the Wilhite's guests used the payphone to contact the police after they heard the screams. If nothing else , screaming might mean something that would a source of danger to the listener.

A number of things about this case don't make sense and it would have been nice if teh police had brought their A-game
in on this one. IMHO, this probably could have been solved shortly after it occurred had there been intense pressure put upon PCB's police department.
I think we all agree that the police might not have put their best foot forward on this case.

But, as Pamela's daughter posted, there is a suspect, but not enough evidence to prosecute. In many cases there will always be information that cannot for various reasons be made public, I think that is probably the case here.

Cocytus, I am sorry for sounding critical of you, but you keep saying the same things. You are beating a dead horse(IMHO) trying to read something into this case that just isn't there. Brandy has confirmed that this was not a seedy area. That is what I have also been saying. PJR did what many of us have done- she preferred traveling at night and didn't be as cautious as she should have been. She paid with her life. I have done the similar things when I was younger, though not at the beach. We just seem to take more risks when we are young. With age comes wisdom- and more caution.

I think you need to move past the notion that PJR had motives for being where she was at other than being on vacation with her kids. I really think it was unfortunately a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as phones and smoking go- people were not as anti-smoking then. It is very doubtful anyone would be outside their room at that time just to smoke. Most of these hotels didn't even have no smoking rooms then, there was no need to step out to smoke.

pay phones were located free standing all up and down the strip at close intervals at this time. Also, people were not tied to the phone then like they are now. It was a different time then. No phone in the room was not probably a concern of hers. I am pretty sure that at minimum there was a payphone outside the office. As there was in most of these places.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:25 PM   #114
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I'm also not convinced there were no phones in the rooms.. I guess it's possible, but very doubtful. As for no one responding to her screams....her kids didn't even hear them. I wouldn't question the integrity of the motel or the area but the person person who claims to to have heard her and did nothing!
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:06 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killarney Rose
I think we all agree that the police might not have put their best foot forward on this case.

But, as Pamela's daughter posted, there is a suspect, but not enough evidence to prosecute. In many cases there will always be information that cannot for various reasons be made public, I think that is probably the case here.

Cocytus, I am sorry for sounding critical of you, but you keep saying the same things. You are beating a dead horse(IMHO) trying to read something into this case that just isn't there. Brandy has confirmed that this was not a seedy area. That is what I have also been saying. PJR did what many of us have done- she preferred traveling at night and didn't be as cautious as she should have been. She paid with her life. I have done the similar things when I was younger, though not at the beach. We just seem to take more risks when we are young. With age comes wisdom- and more caution.

I think you need to move past the notion that PJR had motives for being where she was at other than being on vacation with her kids. I really think it was unfortunately a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As far as phones and smoking go- people were not as anti-smoking then. It is very doubtful anyone would be outside their room at that time just to smoke. Most of these hotels didn't even have no smoking rooms then, there was no need to step out to smoke.

pay phones were located free standing all up and down the strip at close intervals at this time. Also, people were not tied to the phone then like they are now. It was a different time then. No phone in the room was not probably a concern of hers. I am pretty sure that at minimum there was a payphone outside the office. As there was in most of these places.
I'm not trying to "read things into this." I have just looked at this case from several different angles and have seen more than a few things that didn't make sense to me.

Does that mean that I'm right? No, it doesn't. However this case been "cold" for almost twenty years, which is frankly ridiculous as there seem to have been a number of leads.
It's past time that a new look is taken at the available evidence and that may include new theories about the crime and the victim.

As to the payphones and smoking - I'm 44, so I remember having to use a payphone when I didn't have a cell phone. It was often an unpleasant experience, but I was glad to have one available. I'm just finding it difficult to believe that people who heard screams (according to them) at 5 am would not be concerned that those screams could mean something that could cause them harm. Which, coupled w/ the fact that no one used a payphone to call the police, is another sign of the low quality of the area that the Wilhite was in.


And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment, as both Motel 6 and Knight's Inn (two low budget motel brands) both had phones in their motel rooms in the mid 80's. People not being as attached to phones as today doesn't really cut it: whether or not you are "attached" to a phone doesn't really matter if you have a medical emergency.

As far as smoking, I believe I did note that people could smoke in the rooms at that time, but people often went outside to smoke as to not disturb the people that were in the room w/ them sleeping. Well...some had enough respect for others to do that; I can't speak to the jerks that didn't.


I don't know why Ms. Ray decided to make the trip to PCB w/ her children alone. I don't know why she didn't make reservations in advance nor do I know why she didn't simply park her vehicle at a truck stop or all night restaurant and wait until morning when the hotels would be open. The only people that would know most of those things are Ms. Ray and her family, and the family didn't seem to be too forthcoming during the segment.

The bottom line is (I like writing that) that if you have a mystery you have failed to solve after extended period using traditional methods you really only have two choices: Use new methods or completely rethink the mystery. If that means looking deeper into the background of the victim and finding unpleasant things that may exist, then that's part of life.

A lot people seem to have pre-conceived notions of how the world works and easily dismiss narratives that may paint pictures of crimes, criminals and victims that don't comfortably fit into those notions. Honestly, if people can't look at crimes w/o a heavy dose of skepticism, a degree impartiality and thorough understanding of the dark sides of human nature, they probably shouldn't try to solve mysteries as they'll simply waste time and effort.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:08 PM   #116
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And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment, as both Motel 6 and Knight's Inn (two low budget motel brands) both had phones in their motel rooms in the mid 80's. People not being as attached to phones as today doesn't really cut it: whether or not you are "attached" to a phone doesn't really matter if you have a medical emergency.

Where are you getting this from? I only ask because it is not mentioned int he segment that there were no phones in the rooms.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:15 PM   #117
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Where are you getting this from? I only ask because it is not mentioned int he segment that there were no phones in the rooms.
Yes, it is. Watch the segment again and listen at the point where they first show the exterior of the Wilhite. Stack mentions the screaming at 5am and the fact that there were no phones in the motel.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:02 PM   #118
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I think the big reason why this case hasn't been solved yet is because Pamela's body has yet to be found. The segment made a mention of a guy who sexually assaulted another woman very close to the area that Pamela was last seen who also happened to fit the description the police officer gave of the man last seen with Pamela. I honestly think that's the guy that ws responsible.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:10 PM   #119
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I just looked at the video and RS did indeed say there were no phones in the rooms. He did NOT however say there was not a phone in the office(which is a moot point as it was closed) nor did he say there was no payphone at the motel. In fact if you look at the video at "that site" at approx 2:05 into it as the officer is driving by, I see what I think is a pay phone. It isn't good quality video, but it looks to me like a pay phone of that era in front of the office, between the mailbox and the office.

Cocytus, you again refer to this being in a bad area-

"And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment"

That is your opinion, not a fact.

I can assure you it was not. As brandy also said- this was just an older section of the strip, lot's of mom & pop hotels not yet torn down for high rises. It was not a bad area then, nor is it now. I would think you should stop being so sure of this as you have never been there as some of us have many times. In fact, I have stayed at the hotels on either side of the Wilhite at different times. Once on spring break, in the late 70s, and once with my husband on just a weekend trip in the 90s. probably not long before they were all razed for condos. So I do know what I am talking about when I say this was not a low end, run down, drug infested area.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:49 PM   #120
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I just looked at the video and RS did indeed say there were no phones in the rooms. He did NOT however say there was not a phone in the office(which is a moot point as it was closed) nor did he say there was no payphone at the motel. In fact if you look at the video at "that site" at approx 2:05 into it as the officer is driving by, I see what I think is a pay phone. It isn't good quality video, but it looks to me like a pay phone of that era in front of the office, between the mailbox and the office.

Cocytus, you again refer to this being in a bad area-

"And as I stated, not having a phone in the rooms is a sign of a low-end establishment"

That is your opinion, not a fact.

I can assure you it was not. As brandy also said- this was just an older section of the strip, lot's of mom & pop hotels not yet torn down for high rises. It was not a bad area then, nor is it now. I would think you should stop being so sure of this as you have never been there as some of us have many times. In fact, I have stayed at the hotels on either side of the Wilhite at different times. Once on spring break, in the late 70s, and once with my husband on just a weekend trip in the 90s. probably not long before they were all razed for condos. So I do know what I am talking about when I say this was not a low end, run down, drug infested area.
I think the fact that it was an older motel (a leftover from the 50's) is why there were no phones in the rooms. I've actually stayed in a motel in New Mexico were there were no phones, TV, or air conditioning in the rooms and this was in 2005.
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