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Old 02-09-2010, 06:32 PM   #166
egswanso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
1. How do you find new evidence from your armchair?
2. How do you visit a crime scene from your armchair?
3. How do you talk to people involved in the investigation by your armchair?
4. how do you interrogate someone via your armchair?
5. How do you do technical and chemical analysis from your armchair?
6. How do you apprehend someone for a crime from your armchair?


Also keep in mind that the evidence that your looking has been looked at already a multitude of times by other investigators. What are the odds that you are going to find something new that hasn;t already been looked at or discussed ad infinitum?
Slim to none, which is the likelihood most cold cases get solved, but fresh eyes can always be useful.
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Old 02-10-2010, 12:00 AM   #167
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Slim to none, which is the likelihood most cold cases get solved, but fresh eyes can always be useful.
That's what police departments cold case squads are for.

Actually the closure rate on cold cases is a lot higher than you think. It's not a good closure rate but they do get closed. Your thinking of the more popular cases that are in the media that are decades old. Most cold cases are 3-5 year investigations that get solved because they're connected to another current murder.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:11 PM   #168
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A few questions for those who think Tony Lombardi was murdered:

Do you believe the mom's story is credible?
How do you imagine the sequence of events?
What would you point to as evidence of murder?
Do you think the police did a sufficient job? If not, what leads you to believe this?


Thanks.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:31 PM   #169
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Quote:
Do you believe the mom's story is credible?
Some of it might be. She's a biased witness so everything she says has to be looked at with a degree of skepticism. She's also not an experienced investigator. So it's not like she knows how to come up with a feasible scenario. More interested in what private detectives think.


Quote:
How do you imagine the sequence of events?
To little evidence to determine that. More investigation is needed.

Quote:
What would you point to as evidence of murder?
Bruises that indicate a struggle. He was in some type of altercation recently. All it proves is that he was beat up, but the person that beat him is a person of interest that needs to be found.

Do you think the police did a sufficient job? If not, what leads you to believe this?

No, they did not do a sufficient job.
1. simple matter of not wanting to have deal with a difficult case that would stay uncleared on the books. When giving the chance at suicide they jumped at the chance to remove the case from the board.
2. The investigator might have been overworked or inexperienced.




Thanks.[/QUOTE]

1.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:29 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by peachysquirt21
There is no evidence to support a reason for him to commit suicide. There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job. There is no reason given that is plausable for him to commit suicde.

The possible theories given here to even support a suicide IMO are way to weak. Just like that ridiculous reason the cops gave for Tony to commit sucide. That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard & they should bow there heads in shame for even coming up with that theory let alone the poor job they did on this case.

I just don't know how anyone can ignore that this guy had at least 2 death threats against him & then ends up dead. Come on, that is no coicindence.

To each is own tho...
Re: Suicide. Let us remember that the most common reason for death among the people in Tony's age range (18-23) is suicide. Those reasons the police and UM gave for suicide are more than enough to make a young man depressed and push him to kill himself. Many young people in his age range have committed suicide over much less.

As for "There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job", this statement is based solely on the segment. Just because UM did not say anything about his job or a history of depression, that doesn't mean there was "no evidence" if it. Even if there is no such evidence, the reasons given in the segment, as I said before, are enough to push some over the edge, because others have done so over much less.

I do not think it is helpful to the discussion to be told that the reasons those of us who believe it might have been suicide give are some of "the most asinine things" you have ever heard (I guarantee you have heard things in your life much more asinine than this, so please spare us with the hyperboles), and that we should "hang our heads in shame" for believing such a "ridiculous" theory (which I do - I mean the believing the theory part, not the hanging my head part). Such language probably gives you a self-esteem boost by belittling those who are not quite smart enough to figure out it was obviously a murder (as you do), but it does not open us up to really listening to what you have to say. Posts like this I usually ignore - if I see another one (I am on page 4 right now), I will not read beyond the first "ridiculous" or "asinine" I see.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:45 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egswanso
Let's also look at Lombardi in another light: He fancies himself a "player," a shallow, immature person treating women like objects and obsessed over "cool" cars and image; in reality, he's a loser, stuck in a dead-end, menial job, living at home with his parents, no real future, and now facing legal troubles and the loss of his car, that will destroy his facade. I could see him killing himself. Admittedly, this kind of post-factual analysis could be done on almost anyone, and seems harsh and overly negative - but the point is that it's certainly possible to see why (in his mind) he had cause to kill himself; nor is it inconsistent with how the segment portrayed him and as likely, if not more-so, then his mother's beliefs.
This is why I disagree with those who point to the fact that Lombardi was a hit with the ladies and that he had a lot of a girlfriends as evidence that he would not commit suicide. I remember when Terrell Owens had his "near-death experience", and his spokeswoman got on TV and said, "Terrell would not commit suicide - he has 24 million reasons to be alive" - referring to the amount his contract was worth, of course. I thought to myself when I heard that, "Yes, and Marilyn Monroe had even more 'reasons' to live, but obviously those 'reasons' did not make her very happy".

Two of the most common deaths among male "adult" stars, those who make it a career to sleep with hundreds of beautiful women every year, are suicide and drug overdose - and the latter is often motivated by the drive or need to numb various hurts and pains.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:50 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by kadrmas15
Hmm, I am inclined to agree. Personally I found the comments on the reasons why Tony committed suicide to be disgraceful. I am 25 years old and live with my parents due to various twists and turns in my life. Does that make me some loser too that is going to go and off himself tomorrow? No. That is absurd. I tend to believe Tony Lombardi did not kill himself but even if he did I will say it is not for the ridiculous reasons you insinuated. He was a 22 year old young man that enjoyed partying and the ladies, hardly unusual. He never did go to college and he worked at a factory, not unusual even now let alone back in 1990. He got a DUI, again for a young man that likes to party, not unusual. If he did kill himself it was not for any of these reasons there was something deeper there. I think part of the problem here is people have a tendency to treat people that are considering or do commit suicide as rational people when they are clearly irrational because if you think death is the only way out of your troubles or that is looking good to you than clearly you are not rational. Again, you may be right that Tony Lombardi committed suicide but if he did, the reasoning goes deeper than just getting arrested for drunk driving or living at home and working at a factory. People might attempt suicide in crap like that but it is more to draw attention to themselves because they want help but do not know how to go about it. I have been arrested and convicted of drunk driving myself. While I was angry that I got busted and later depressed it was never anywhere near severe enough I would off myself over it.
Are you saying that just because these reasons would not drive you personally to suicide, they could not possibly drive anyone else to suicide?
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:15 PM   #173
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I want to respond to a few things, and then give my opinion on this case.

1. Trajectory of the bullet. I think this can be consistent with a suicide. I would think that if Tony did kill himself, he would have been very tense - even when you want to do yourself in, it is still a nerve-wracking thing, just because of the nature of what you are about to do. I would think that if he was "bracing" himself for a bullet through the head, he would have driven his upper body into the pillows far enough that his head would temporarily sag to the level of the bullet hole. Think about it for a minute - it would be similar to how you would brace yourself when riding a roller coaster.

2. As for the bruises, the laceration, the broken watch, and the broken jaw, these could have been sustained elsewhere. One of the boyfriends of the girls he was seeing might have stalked him that night, and after he left the local hangout, he confronted him and gave him a good roughing up. If he was already depressed, this latest episode might have been a final trigger as well. Suicidal people are already quite fragile - a harsh insult or a good butt-kicking is sometimes all it takes to break the camel's back.

3. The light. If it was suicide, the sound that Tony's mother heard was obviously the gun shot. It is possible that Tony turned the light on shortly before killing himself, but after his mother went to bed. Why would he do this? Who knows. People who are about to kill themselves are probably not thinking that straight to begin with. There could be a hundred reasons - many of them concerning some symbolic act. That is why his being naked does not necessarily rule out suicide on the grounds that it is irrational. There could be a hundred reasons someone would commit suicide naked - none of them probably making much sense, but all of them quite possible when you are in such a state of mind.

Now, what do I personally think? I really don't know. I lean towards suicide, for many of the reasons given by Corky especially but also others (although I would have preferred Corky use a nicer, less condescending tone). But I can't get over some things, namely, the injuries. The most logical explanation for this particular array of injuries is that he was assaulted on his bed in an attempt to murder him. The trajectory of the bullet is probably more consistent with murder, as is the nakedness (most likely humiliation), I would say. The death threats from the guys whose girlfriends he was screwing around with also points towards murder.

But then again, the evidence does not eliminate the possibility of suicide, and in fact, the evidence given for it being murder have other very logical explanations, as opposed to other cases profiled on UM where the explanations are a real stretch. The impression I get is that his mother is grasping at whatever she can to point towards it being a murder. Some of the evidence she gave as "proof" that he was murdered I did not find too convincing.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:30 PM   #174
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All of your above posts said things I agree with and you made your points much more eloquently than I did.

The only spots I'd like to address are these:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wamisto
3. The light. If it was suicide, the sound that Tony's mother heard was obviously the gun shot. It is possible that Tony turned the light on shortly before killing himself, but after his mother went to bed....
On the segment, Robert Stack says (paraphrasing): "The only things both sides agree on is that Tony was dead long before his mother got home". So her hearing the gunshot is impossible. This was the first thing that really made it obvious to me that the mother wasn't credible.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wamisto
Now, what do I personally think? I really don't know. I lean towards suicide, for many of the reasons given by Corky especially but also others (although I would have preferred Corky use a nicer, less condescending tone).

Just to defend myself a bit, a lot of stuff that I was replying to ((and that got me upset)) was deleted. Also, the way you addressed peachysquirt above was how I was trying to do it but I just got too pithy.
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:38 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind



To little evidence to determine that. More investigation is needed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
No, they did not do a sufficient job.
1. simple matter of not wanting to have deal with a difficult case that would stay uncleared on the books. When giving the chance at suicide they jumped at the chance to remove the case from the board.
2. The investigator might have been overworked or inexperienced.

See I don't understand how you can say that there's too little evidence for you to imagine a scenario of what could have happened, and yet you are certain, even providing possibilities as to why, that the police didn’t do enough? What exactly indicates police laziness or ineptitude? Not being flippant at all but the only reason I can surmise people don’t think the police did enough is because UM didn’t say “The police did enough”.
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:04 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wamisto
Re: Suicide. Let us remember that the most common reason for death among the people in Tony's age range (18-23) is suicide. Those reasons the police and UM gave for suicide are more than enough to make a young man depressed and push him to kill himself. Many young people in his age range have committed suicide over much less.

As for "There is no evidence that he was depressed, no evidence that he hated his job", this statement is based solely on the segment. Just because UM did not say anything about his job or a history of depression, that doesn't mean there was "no evidence" if it. Even if there is no such evidence, the reasons given in the segment, as I said before, are enough to push some over the edge, because others have done so over much less.

I do not think it is helpful to the discussion to be told that the reasons those of us who believe it might have been suicide give are some of "the most asinine things" you have ever heard (I guarantee you have heard things in your life much more asinine than this, so please spare us with the hyperboles), and that we should "hang our heads in shame" for believing such a "ridiculous" theory (which I do - I mean the believing the theory part, not the hanging my head part). Such language probably gives you a self-esteem boost by belittling those who are not quite smart enough to figure out it was obviously a murder (as you do), but it does not open us up to really listening to what you have to say. Posts like this I usually ignore - if I see another one (I am on page 4 right now), I will not read beyond the first "ridiculous" or "asinine" I see.
Next time I have any thoughts on a case, I will be sure to run them by you first for approval to make sure they are appropriate & add to the discussion.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:11 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peachysquirt21
Next time I have any thoughts on a case, I will be sure to run them by you first for approval to make sure they are appropriate & add to the discussion.
I think this is meant to be sarcastic, but I cannot tell for certain. I do not care much for sarcasm either.

No, this is not necessary - I regard all opinions here as good opinions, because they are, after all, "opinions". I would just ask that you recognize this and write accordingly.

The substance of what you have said is not a problem - in fact, I agree with a great deal of what you have said. But the way you have said it, and the way you choose to disagree with others, is what I object to.

I will read your next post on this thread (if there will be a next post), and if it is along this nature again, I will ignore all future posts from you (at least on this thread). It is your choice - but I hope you do not use it to get one more good jab in on me.
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Old 02-24-2010, 02:20 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel
Just to defend myself a bit, a lot of stuff that I was replying to ((and that got me upset)) was deleted. Also, the way you addressed peachysquirt above was how I was trying to do it but I just got too pithy.
Ah, I figured as much. I just didn't know which came first - the chicken or the egg (ie. Corky's rhetoric or the rhetoric of some of the thread's murder-proponents). Anyway, it's never good to fight fire with fire - as tempting as that is!

So nix point #3 then - I usually make sure I double-check those details before posting on them. IF it is suicide, then, there is something that does not check out with the mother's story. Whether it is a deliberate lie, or whether her memory has been clouded by a refusal to believe her son would kill himself, I don't know. I suppose either is possible - though I don't know why she would lie deliberately about it.

As I said before, I really do not know whether it was murder or suicide, but I still lean towards the latter.
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:25 AM   #179
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I am done debating over this case. I have stated my thoughts on this matter. To continue with this topic is like beating a dead horse. If others here wish to continue debating over it that is there choice.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:08 PM   #180
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Watched this one again today, so of course, I had to do a search and see what everyone's thoughts were on the subject and to see if there's been any progress in the case. Unfortunately, I see that it's still unsolved.

As for the "committing suicide in the nude" discussion that's been going on in this thread for a few years... Well, I never would have thought someone would do such a thing, it seems so weird, considering that you know that very soon, you are going to be found dead, *and* you're naked!

But then, just this year I watched a special about how winning the lottery has affected people. One of the guys was middle aged, won a ton of money, immediately started cheating on his wife and spending his money so fast that he sold a Ten Million dollar future lottery payment to one of those place that give you cash now for your structured settlements (or whatever it is that they do) for only Two Million dollars. Seems like he blew all that money too.

Anyway, within about two years of winning, he was separated or divorced from his wife and pretty much broke. He wanted her back but she didn't want to reconcile. He went to her house while no one was home and was apparently under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.

He locked himself in her bedroom, stripped naked, and shot himself to death with a shotgun. IIRC, he locked the bedroom door and left a note outside of it saying that he would be found dead in that room. I have no idea why he decided to get naked for his suicide, but they made the statements about it during the show and there were even the police photos, showing his clothes in a pile on the floor.

In Tony's case, I'm still leaning toward it being a murder, but I'm wondering if they did toxicology on him to see if he was high or drunk at the time. This happened in 1990 and I don't know what kind of drugs were available then, but I do know that meth (I think that's the one) makes people wanna start taking off their clothes for some reason. At least that's what I learned from watching way too many episodes of Cops where those poor officers are trying to arrest a nekkid or nearly nekkid person who's completely out of their minds on drugs....
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