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Old 12-31-2009, 03:56 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMfan77
Personally, I highly doubt he did this. The guy is 6' 6" and had long hair...I don't know about you, but I would notice someone with those characteristics, especially if he was setting up a murder scene in the middle of a parking lot! If he was more average in height and had a more typical shorter hairdo for a guy, he wouldn't of stood out as much.
There's people who have been kidnapped in broad daylight in parking lots etc. & noone has seen a thing. You would think that this could never happen but it does.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:33 AM   #77
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I and many other posters have already talked about certain aspects of this case that make Tim look guilty. I'm going to do my best not to rehash everything that's been said already, but after having watched this segment again, I'm going to post some new things and also expand on some of the comments previously made.

-Justin: to answer your question of where I think she was murdered, I think she did in fact make it to her house from the casino, and was killed there by Tim. I say that for different reasons. First, the segment says that she planned to "drive straight home". She had no plans to go to another casino, and it would be very strange to gamble in another casino when you can gamble with your son on his wedding day. Additionally, she has her son accompany her out to her car in one, why would she go to another casino at night in a big city with no protection? Additionally, the segment depicts that when Tim comes home, he finds signs that she's not there, and the camera focuses on and zooms in on a lamp that was left on. This indicates to me that she was interrupted at home, but it's one of those 'blink and you'll miss it' moments. And then you have to throw in those nagging, persisting questions of how does Tim seem to know which casino she will be found at or even that she'll even be found at a casino. (perhaps she stopped off for gas, a bite to eat, snacks, perhaps she was tired and checked in to a hotel. Tim seems to be psychic.) In order to believe that this was a random perpetrator, we have to believe that Terri changed her plans and met foul play, which is possible but unlikely. Personally, I don't know too many elderly women that go around in big cities at night unaccompanied.

You also made the point of that if her car was planted at the casino, then it was probably Tim, and I would have to agree with that. And I believe it was planted because I don't think anybody could miss a dead woman in a car for 3 days. But additionally, I have this point: If you watch the segment, the car is not parked normally. It is at a slant, and actually takes up the space of several parking spots. This would definitely attract attention, so I doubly believe that the car was planted there the morning her body was found.

It's been talked about before about how Tim goes looking for her purse even before he knows the purse is missing. Which is significant, but also there are other questions that nag. Why doesn't he go out looking for his MOTHER? And her car was technically missing at this point, why doesn't he go out looking for that? It would seem to me that finding his mother and her car would be more important than looking for the needle in the haystack purse, which just happens to be missing, and is a small object he's trying to find while traveling at least 55 mph.

It's been talked about before how Tim goes out looking for his mom, but the holy ghost tells him not to look at a particular casino. Okay, so what was the point of him going out again? The purpose was to find her, and when he gets an inkling that she'll be found at a particular spot, he decides not to check it out. Wasn't the purpose of Tim going out to find her?

It's been addressed that Tim not only believes that the credit card lady got the date wrong. He also says that she also "mixed up his words", which would indicate that she got something else besides the date wrong. So now, the credit card lady messes up at least 2 things, which seems unlikely to me.

We've talked about how Tim never makes a plea to find the real killer, but rather to clear his own name. To expand on that, we here on the UM forum have talked about many times how unreliable witness accounts can be. I think Tim was hoping for some unreliable "witnesses" to come forth to help clear his name, perhaps friends of his or whatever. Which is actually a pretty cunning trick.

And then Tim says about the police: "this is my mother's death, you should be investigating it on a whole 'nother level rather than looking at me." Now if Tim is innocent, he certainly won't mind answering a few questions about that night, would he?

So those are some new points and some expansions to points already addressed that, to me, make me further believe that Tim is guilty.

The thing of it is, in order to believe Tim is innocent, you have to believe that the credit card lady is wrong, both lie detector tests are wrong and that Tim has amazing psychic abilities. And then there's that elephant in the room that not one single person on Earth can recall seeing Tim, a 6'6 man with long hair, for an entire 8 hour block of time, or his wife for a 6 hour block of time, and that Tim has seemed to forget which dance halls they went to on one of the most memorable nights of his life.

EDIT: this is interesting. here is a link to an article where it says that Tim's plea for someone to come forward and clear his name not work, but also that the people that did come forward further implicated him, and that's when he was arrested.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-...r-killing-case
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:04 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseguy182
I and many other posters have already talked about certain aspects of this case that make Tim look guilty. I'm going to do my best not to rehash everything that's been said already, but after having watched this segment again, I'm going to post some new things and also expand on some of the comments previously made.

-Justin: to answer your question of where I think she was murdered, I think she did in fact make it to her house from the casino, and was killed there by Tim. I say that for different reasons. First, the segment says that she planned to "drive straight home". She had no plans to go to another casino, and it would be very strange to gamble in another casino when you can gamble with your son on his wedding day. Additionally, she has her son accompany her out to her car in one, why would she go to another casino at night in a big city with no protection? Additionally, the segment depicts that when Tim comes home, he finds signs that she's not there, and the camera focuses on and zooms in on a lamp that was left on. This indicates to me that she was interrupted at home, but it's one of those 'blink and you'll miss it' moments. And then you have to throw in those nagging, persisting questions of how does Tim seem to know which casino she will be found at or even that she'll even be found at a casino. (perhaps she stopped off for gas, a bite to eat, snacks, perhaps she was tired and checked in to a hotel. Tim seems to be psychic.) In order to believe that this was a random perpetrator, we have to believe that Terri changed her plans and met foul play, which is possible but unlikely. Personally, I don't know too many elderly women that go around in big cities at night unaccompanied.

You also made the point of that if her car was planted at the casino, then it was probably Tim, and I would have to agree with that. And I believe it was planted because I don't think anybody could miss a dead woman in a car for 3 days. But additionally, I have this point: If you watch the segment, the car is not parked normally. It is at a slant, and actually takes up the space of several parking spots. This would definitely attract attention, so I doubly believe that the car was planted there the morning her body was found.

It's been talked about before about how Tim goes looking for her purse even before he knows the purse is missing. Which is significant, but also there are other questions that nag. Why doesn't he go out looking for his MOTHER? And her car was technically missing at this point, why doesn't he go out looking for that? It would seem to me that finding his mother and her car would be more important than looking for the needle in the haystack purse, which just happens to be missing, and is a small object he's trying to find while traveling at least 55 mph.

It's been talked about before how Tim goes out looking for his mom, but the holy ghost tells him not to look at a particular casino. Okay, so what was the point of him going out again? The purpose was to find her, and when he gets an inkling that she'll be found at a particular spot, he decides not to check it out. Wasn't the purpose of Tim going out to find her?

It's been addressed that Tim not only believes that the credit card lady got the date wrong. He also says that she also "mixed up his words", which would indicate that she got something else besides the date wrong. So now, the credit card lady messes up at least 2 things, which seems unlikely to me.

We've talked about how Tim never makes a plea to find the real killer, but rather to clear his own name. To expand on that, we here on the UM forum have talked about many times how unreliable witness accounts can be. I think Tim was hoping for some unreliable "witnesses" to come forth to help clear his name, perhaps friends of his or whatever. Which is actually a pretty cunning trick.

And then Tim says about the police: "this is my mother's death, you should be investigating it on a whole 'nother level rather than looking at me." Now if Tim is innocent, he certainly won't mind answering a few questions about that night, would he?

So those are some new points and some expansions to points already addressed that, to me, make me further believe that Tim is guilty.

The thing of it is, in order to believe Tim is innocent, you have to believe that the credit card lady is wrong, both lie detector tests are wrong and that Tim has amazing psychic abilities. And then there's that elephant in the room that not one single person on Earth can recall seeing Tim, a 6'6 man with long hair, for an entire 8 hour block of time, or his wife for a 6 hour block of time, and that Tim has seemed to forget which dance halls they went to on one of the most memorable nights of his life.

EDIT: this is interesting. here is a link to an article where it says that Tim's plea for someone to come forward and clear his name not work, but also that the people that did come forward further implicated him, and that's when he was arrested.

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-...r-killing-case
Great post wiseguy I been thinking about that part of him going looking for her purse & it came to me as well why would he specifically look for her purse when instead he should be looking for his mom & her car. I mean his mom is missing but we have no idea what has happened to her so there is no telling what happened to her purse.

Quite frankly Tim & his wife have no rock solid alibi. Sure he claims they were gambling separately but noone can place either at the casino. So that leads me to him being the number one suspect in her death.

His story just does't wash with me. I mean why the need for him, his new bride & his mom to eventually separate from one another on his wedding night. To me just very convenient that this happens & his mom ends up murdered. By his account him & his mom gambled at the casinos together often so why would she decide to go to another one gambling by herself on her son's wedding night? That just does not make any sense.

I can see the credit card lady getting her days mixed up but also mix up what his reason for cancelling the card just does not sit well with me & I think it is very unlikely for both to happen.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:40 PM   #79
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With all the speculation, this much is clear - they D.A., who had at their disposal, ALL the evidence (not just a television segment) dismissed the case against McClure WITH prejudice (i.e., forever).

This is far stronger evidence in my mind that he didn't do it then all the rank speculation in this thread. Could he have done it? Sure, I suppose he could have - but there is no EVIDENCE he did so.

Motive - the only identifiable motive is 5K in insurance money. This isn't a very strong motive, and neither the amount or timing of the insurance policy makes it very suspicious, frankly. Positing on some argument, etc. between Tim and his mother is pure speculation and contradicted by the testimony of friends and relatives as to the relationship between the two.

Means - The police could find absolutely no link between the murder weapon and McClure. None.

Opportunity - There is, perhaps, a window of opportunity for McClure to have committed the crime, although since an exact time of death isn't available, it's impossible to really pin down a timeline with much certainty.

Here's the thing, let's presume McClure did it - and for those who think he did, explain this:

1. Why make up an alibi much easier to negate (in the casino) vs. saying he was up in his room watching TV or "with" his wife?

2. Where's any link to the murder weapon? It's safe to assume, I think, that the police could find nothing to indicate McClure (1) owned a gun; (2) purchased a gun; (3) had a gun in his possession.

3. Why even make up the whole story as to the driving her route looking for her purse/car/her? He could have just as easily said he drove the highway looking to see if she broke down. How do we know he really checked "every" casino between Lake Tahoe and Reno? Did he have an exhaustive list checking them off one-by-one, or did he simply not stop at some ones (because he didn't know they were there or didn't see them) and only after-the-fact blame god for not going to that one.

While law enforcement isn't perfect; it's hard to believe they couldn't make a case against McClure if the evidence was actually there. The simple fact is, it's just not and all the speculation in the world can't change that.
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:16 PM   #80
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egswano,

How do you explain the isse with the credit card cancellation?
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:54 PM   #81
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Hmm, that has always been confusing to me BUT I have always thought the credit card person had her dates mixed up. The main reason I think this is well, I will say, I do not care how arrogant a killer may be, NO ONE would be that arrogant or stupid to cancel his mother's credit cards before she was even known to be missing. In fact I think the credit card person claimed Tim McClure canceled the credit cards Friday afternoon and I believe it is thought that Terri McClure was murdered sometime Friday evening?

Yes, I think this was a case that I think was screwed up. I don't know, to me, while Tim McClure certainly should have been looked at a suspect and while there are certain things there are troubling in terms of his story, none of it was actually disproven, that is the problem the cops and ultimately the DA had with this case. The case was dismissed with prejudice huh? That I did not know, so yeah, Tim McClure can never be charged in this case again at least not at the state level. I suppose the feds could try to make a case against him for 'violating the civil rights' of his mother, but I am not sure if there is a statute of limitations at the federal level for that crime or not?

Looking at the case, it appears that they were on Lake Tahoe right? That is where the wedding happened and where Tim claimed he lost saw his mother? My question though is, was Terri McClure's car and body found at a casino in Lake Tahoe or in Carson City? I thought it was Carson City but I could be mistaken. Now I am trying to remember in the segment if they said the wedding happened at the southmost point of Lake Tahoe on the Nevada side or if it was on the north most point of Lake Tahoe on the Nevada side? Carson City is just a stone's throw from the northern part of Lake Tahoe.

I think it was southern Lake Tahoe since the Douglas County, Nevada Sheriff's Department was investigating the case and there are several towns the wedding could have happened in along Lake Tahoe. Among the towns along the Lake on the Nevada side that are in Douglas County, Glenbrook, Skyland, Zephyr Cove, Elk Point, Stateline, Stateline is just across the border into Nevada so as soon as you go west of there you get into the city of South Lake Tahoe, California. While the areas right on the coast with the Lake are not forested once you get even just inland from there the area becomes very forested as on the Nevada side, a lot of that area between the lake and Carson City contains the Humboldt Toiyabe National Forest. The area in the forest, a lot of it also is covered with Mountains as well.

There are a couple of ways to get into Carson City from Douglas County. The primary highway would be U.S. Highway 50 which goes along the lake in Douglas County, goes through Stateline, Skyland, goes past Cave Rock, then curves up and goes near Glenbrook before leading into Carson City. It also goes through the northern part of the Humboldt Toiyabe National Forest and goes through the Spooner Summit which is over 7,000 feet above sea level.

Now the other road that could be taken from southern Douglas County and I think this road would be less traveled is Nevada State Highway 207. Now you would have to take U.S. Highway 50 through Stateline or if you were going from the north you would have to go through Elk Grove and then just north of Stateline you would turn onto Highway 207. The only town along 207 is Kingsbury which is a town of about 2,500 people. Other than that you are traveling along the southern part of the National Forest and also through the Daggett Pass which is over 7,300 feet above sea level. You would take this road until you eventually would connect with State Highway 88 which you would then go north on and that turns into U.S. Highway 395 and you would eventually get to Carson City. In between turning onto the highway and Carson City there is basically nothing except one town just outside of Carson City to the south called Indian Hills which is a town of about 4,500 people. So the latter route would be longer but would have way less traffic and way few people and towns along it than the other route along the Lake.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:05 PM   #82
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Quote:
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egswano,

How do you explain the isse with the credit card cancellation?
I have to think the credit card people got the date wrong. I have to presume (again, assuming regular police investigation) that the police did their best to verify the date of the note against any independent confirmation - call logs, etc. and were either unable to prove the call occurred on the 14th (even back in 1983, they should have been able to examine phone records) or the evidence supported McClure's statement of calling on the 17th.

Proof that he called on the 14th (before the murder) and reported his mother deceased (which is what the note clearly said) would have at least enabled the D.A. to bring the case to trial, IMO. It would also make McClure deserving of a spot on world's dumbest criminals, but I'm not going to say it's unlikely just because it's stupid.

Moreover, calling on the 17th itself isn't unusual. People in grief often do mundane things as a means of dealing with the situation. I don't find anything suspicious or unusual in his calling on that day.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:20 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadrmas15
Hmm, that has always been confusing to me BUT I have always thought the credit card person had her dates mixed up. The main reason I think this is well, I will say, I do not care how arrogant a killer may be, NO ONE would be that arrogant or stupid to cancel his mother's credit cards before she was even known to be missing. In fact I think the credit card person claimed Tim McClure canceled the credit cards Friday afternoon and I believe it is thought that Terri McClure was murdered sometime Friday evening?

Yes, I think this was a case that I think was screwed up. I don't know, to me, while Tim McClure certainly should have been looked at a suspect and while there are certain things there are troubling in terms of his story, none of it was actually disproven, that is the problem the cops and ultimately the DA had with this case. The case was dismissed with prejudice huh? That I did not know, so yeah, Tim McClure can never be charged in this case again at least not at the state level. I suppose the feds could try to make a case against him for 'violating the civil rights' of his mother, but I am not sure if there is a statute of limitations at the federal level for that crime or not?

Looking at the case, it appears that they were on Lake Tahoe right? That is where the wedding happened and where Tim claimed he lost saw his mother? My question though is, was Terri McClure's car and body found at a casino in Lake Tahoe or in Carson City? I thought it was Carson City but I could be mistaken. Now I am trying to remember in the segment if they said the wedding happened at the southmost point of Lake Tahoe on the Nevada side or if it was on the north most point of Lake Tahoe on the Nevada side? Carson City is just a stone's throw from the northern part of Lake Tahoe.

I think it was southern Lake Tahoe since the Douglas County, Nevada Sheriff's Department was investigating the case and there are several towns the wedding could have happened in along Lake Tahoe. Among the towns along the Lake on the Nevada side that are in Douglas County, Glenbrook, Skyland, Zephyr Cove, Elk Point, Stateline, Stateline is just across the border into Nevada so as soon as you go west of there you get into the city of South Lake Tahoe, California. While the areas right on the coast with the Lake are not forested once you get even just inland from there the area becomes very forested as on the Nevada side, a lot of that area between the lake and Carson City contains the Humboldt Toiyabe National Forest. The area in the forest, a lot of it also is covered with Mountains as well.

There are a couple of ways to get into Carson City from Douglas County. The primary highway would be U.S. Highway 50 which goes along the lake in Douglas County, goes through Stateline, Skyland, goes past Cave Rock, then curves up and goes near Glenbrook before leading into Carson City. It also goes through the northern part of the Humboldt Toiyabe National Forest and goes through the Spooner Summit which is over 7,000 feet above sea level.

Now the other road that could be taken from southern Douglas County and I think this road would be less traveled is Nevada State Highway 207. Now you would have to take U.S. Highway 50 through Stateline or if you were going from the north you would have to go through Elk Grove and then just north of Stateline you would turn onto Highway 207. The only town along 207 is Kingsbury which is a town of about 2,500 people. Other than that you are traveling along the southern part of the National Forest and also through the Daggett Pass which is over 7,300 feet above sea level. You would take this road until you eventually would connect with State Highway 88 which you would then go north on and that turns into U.S. Highway 395 and you would eventually get to Carson City. In between turning onto the highway and Carson City there is basically nothing except one town just outside of Carson City to the south called Indian Hills which is a town of about 4,500 people. So the latter route would be longer but would have way less traffic and way few people and towns along it than the other route along the Lake.
Absolutely, Tim McClure should have been a suspect, as family member are (and statistically should be) in any murder. From the segment, the wedding was in Lake Tahoe, the mom was driving home to Reno, and her car and body were found in Carson City.

I don't know the area at all, so not sure what you're getting at re: the routes - are you saying it would have been easy for him to miss a casino/potential stop or that there's nothing there, so it's harder to believe he could have accidental missed a casino?
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:26 PM   #84
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Brilliant posts egswanso!! You brought up some great points. What surprises me is that no one apparently witnessed this murder. It was in a no doubt busy casino at night. Did anyone even hear gunshots? It just seems much more plausible that she was robbed (her purse had been taken) than that her, by all accounts, loving son decided to kill his mother on his wedding day for a small life insurance policy.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:33 PM   #85
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In terms of the motive, I will say, IF Tim McClure did this and killed his mother the motive in my opinion was NOT to collect 5 grand. I am not sure what it would be, but I know another poster came up with a very good scenario that at least to me was the only scenario that even remotely made sense to me for why Tim McClure would kill his mother.

Now in terms of the random robbery theory, while possible, did the segment say that Terri McClure's cash and credit cards were missing out of her purse? Was the purse found? Was a murder weapon tied to Tim McClure? A gun of any kind, particularly of the kind that was used to kill Terri McClure? Not only that but what troubles me too is that she was alleged killed in a casino parking lot yet NO ONE reported hearing shots, hearing anything that sounded like a shot, nothing. While this does not mean that she could not have been killed in Lake Tahoe, I have always thought it possible that Terri McClure was actually killed elsewhere. That she was abducted as part of the robbery and at some point between Lake Tahoe and Carson City murdered and her car parked at the casino in Carson City.

The biggest problem for Tim McClure in this case was the alibi. The lie detector tests would not have come into evidence had he gone on trial for this. Under Nevada law, the only way lie detector tests are admissible in a criminal case is if BOTH the prosecutor and defense attorneys stipulate to it. I can see why the prosecutors would love to get the results in because Tim failed the test. However his defense attorney would never agree to it. So that would not come in.

The problem too is that because Terri McClure was not found for a couple of days after her death and I think it was 3 or 4 days before the cops talked to Tim McClure in person. Thus they could not test his hands for gunshot residue and he would have had time to return his tuxedo that I would presume to be a rental, thus it would have been washed. Now maybe these days they could test it and find something but back then that would have eliminated any physical evidence that Tim did the crime as with the tuxedo washed, any gunshot residue or blood spatter would have been washed away. Also, even if the car was tested for fingerprints, Tim's fingerprints on the doors would not have proved anything anyway as by his own admission he walked his mother to her car and could say that he touched the door, window or handle when closing the door for her and he could explain away other contact with the car and it could not be disproved.

Now, if Tim did murder his mother, he would need a way to get back to the Lake Tahoe area from Carson City after dumping his mothers car there. So if Tim did do it, then I think his wife was involved too, at least to the extent of driving him back from Carson City after the fact. Now you had this period of about two hours where Tim McClure's whereabouts were not substantiated by anyone including his wife. So for at least two hours he is unaccounted for. Carson City from the northern point of Lake Tahoe that is in Douglas County is probably oh, 25 to 30 miles away. From the state line with California or the southern part of Lake Tahoe in Douglas County, Carson City is 40 to 45 miles away. So, round trip this would have been anywhere from 50 to 60 miles or at longest from 80 to 90 miles. So, this probably would have taken roundtrip to drive, anywhere from around an hour give or take a few minutes to as long as an hour and a half give or take a few minutes. I am not entirely familiar with the geography so I would have to drive it myself to get the times down and measure but I imagine Tim would be careful and not speed, even though that is a deserted area, why would he risk speeding knowing the body of his dead mother is in the front seat with him?

So under this time frame, it is theoretically possible for Tim McClure to have killed his mother, driven her body and her car to Carson City abandoned it there and get back to Lake Tahoe in time to re-join his wife and his in-laws.
HOWEVER he would need to have someone to get him back to Carson City. Again, he could abandon his mother's car in Carson City, the problem is, how would he get back to Lake Tahoe without another car or someone to drive him back? His wife could have driven him back however during that two hours that he was missing however she had an alibi during the time Tim was missing as she was with her parents. So it is just weird.

This brings up another weird point. While Tim's alibi during that two hours (his wife was gambling with her parents but Tim claimed he went gambling by himself, odd on his wedding night to do such a thing) however ironically it appears after Tim rejoined his in laws and his wife, at some point his in laws retired for the evening and so Tim and his wife were alone and they claimed they drank and danced all night until 6 am or so the following morning yet no one remembers seeing either Tim or his wife in the dance hall. So there is presumably a several hour period where neither Tim or his wife's whereabouts were substantiated.

So, while this is a circumstantial case and I guess they could try to make a case off it, although they cannot now because Tim while not formally acquitted, the state is barred from charging him in this case again. But before the charges were dismissed with prejudice, I suppose they could have rolled the dice, taken a gamble and tried to get a conviction. I do not think there is enough there to prove 1st degree murder. If Tim was convicted he would probably be convicted of either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. So I can see why the DA did not charge this case.

Plus if Tim's wife was put on the stand, she would take the 5th I imagine unless the prosecutor offered her immunity. This is because on the polygraph, she failed one question and one question only, "do you know who murdered Terri McClure?" So I imagine she would want immunity although I imagine the statute of limitations long ago expired on accessory after the fact charges so who knows? But it is too late now. The cops were hell bent on going after Tim McClure and it bit them big time. They took the unusual step of arresting someone like this in a murder case with no direct evidence and no confession and they did this without probable cause and they did this without either a grand jury indictment or a prosecutor authorizing arrest which is highly unusual as I said in a murder case for someone to be arrested for murder if they have not confessed and there is no direct evidence, without a grand jury indictment or a prosecutor authorizing arrest. Plus under Nevada law, you probably can only arrest someone for first degree murder if you have a grand jury indictment, so I imagine Tim McClure was charged with 2nd degree murder when arrested.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:40 PM   #86
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Eswango, in terms of the routes, I was just analyzing the geography of the area. If you download a map of Douglas County and of the Carson City area you will see what I am talking about in reference to that.

Well, basically why I brought up the routes was both in terms of distance to Carson City and back, also in terms of what was in between Lake Tahoe and Carson City along the routes in terms of number of people, casinos, etc. I was mostly making this a reference in that if Tim was driving his dead mother in her car to Carson City, I would think he would want to avoid the major routes as there would be more cops there and more risk of being pulled over. But who knows?

It appears that there are way more casinos along Lake Tahoe, there are few if any in the small towns, but when you get to Carson City there is several there. So to me if someone Tim or someone else was going to dump the body, to dump it in Carson City would make perfect sense because I imagine those casinos are a lot less crowded than the ones either on Lake Tahoe or in Reno. Carson City has several casinos and is the capital of Nevada but is largely a sleepy town, around 50,000 people, I imagine back in 1983 it was way smaller than that, but now a days it has around 50,000 people, but still a sleepy town especially by Nevada standards. The Reno/Sparks area and the Las Vegas area along with Lake Tahoe are where people go, not to Carson City.
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Old 01-02-2010, 06:24 PM   #87
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From your analysis, then, it sounds like a two hour window could have been enough time, but that doesn't really help or hurt him. The sleepiness of Carson City could explain how Mrs. McClure could have remained undiscovered for a couple days (presuming, of course, her car was there the whole time), but the isolation of the route begs the question of why McClure, again, if he was going to kill her, couldn't have just dumped the body out in the woods or in the lake. Sounds like much less of a chance to have been seen.

I google mapped the area myself; the segment noted that the drive home to Reno was "about an hour," which covers most of the north-central portion of the lake, although you'd have to get to about Glenbrook before going through Carson City would be an out-of-way detour, so I'd have to presume the wedding was around there, although I have no idea, and even South Lake Tahoe to Reno could be "about an hour," although closer to an hour and a half.
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Old 01-02-2010, 06:41 PM   #88
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
egswano,

How do you explain the isse with the credit card cancellation?


I have to think the credit card people got the date wrong. I have to presume (again, assuming regular police investigation) that the police did their best to verify the date of the note against any independent confirmation - call logs, etc. and were either unable to prove the call occurred on the 14th (even back in 1983, they should have been able to examine phone records) or the evidence supported McClure's statement of calling on the 17th.

Proof that he called on the 14th (before the murder) and reported his mother deceased (which is what the note clearly said) would have at least enabled the D.A. to bring the case to trial, IMO. It would also make McClure deserving of a spot on world's dumbest criminals, but I'm not going to say it's
Why would you assume that they were ubable to prove that the call occured on the 14th? That evidence would not have been enough to convict him, that doesn;t mean that it weren't able to prove it.

Don;t you find it interesting that her purse is missing and Tim decides that cancelling her credit cards is of majoir importance. If Tim killed his mother and tossed her purse to the side, there's a good chance someone might find it. That person may decide to use the credit cards. This would screw Tim because the police would notice that someone is using her credit cards while she's still dead. That person may very well tell the cops where he found the purse as well as some other vital items.

How do you explain the pillow?

Why would a random robber bring a pillow with him to commit the murder? Why did the robber think he had to muffle the shot.

Why would a robber kill her in the first place? Why not steal the car?

Why shoot her in the head execution style?

Quote:
It was in a no doubt busy casino at night. Did anyone even hear gunshots?
Perhaps that's what the pillow was used for. To muffle the shot.

Quote:
In terms of the motive, I will say, IF Tim McClure did this and killed his mother the motive in my opinion was NOT to collect 5 grand. I am not sure what it would be, but I know another poster came up with a very good scenario that at least to me was the only scenario that even remotely made sense to me for why Tim McClure would kill his mother.
Beverly McGowan was killed for far less money.

Quote:
What surprises me is that no one apparently witnessed this murder.
1. If you saw a person murder someone with a gun and you looked that person straight in the face. Would you be that willing to come forward as a witness. Especially a 6ft 6 guy with scraggily hair who looks like Kurt Rambis?

There may be no witness because one has not yet come forward or is too scared too.

2. i'm also positive that if we think about it, there are plenty of ways for a murder like this too be committed with nobody witnessing it. I'm willing to bet anyone that I could simulate a murder in which I kill someone the same way in the middle of a busy shopping mall. And I'm a 6 ft 4!

3. If Tim murdered his mother, there isn;t going to be a lot of commotion. She knows him, he knows her. The only commotion is after the shooting. If he manages to pull that off with no commotion, then the rest looks like a guy helping his drunk or sleeping mother into the car. I don;t think there wa s alot of blood in the car either, if I'm correct.
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:18 PM   #89
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As to the credit card, not only did the woman Tim talk too got the date wrong, she also got his words mixed up on why he was canceling it. This according to Tim. There is no way someone is gonna get both of these mixed up.

Why the need to cancel the card so soon? I mean if it was my mom who had dissapeared & then turn up dead, I would not cancel the card. I would leave it active in case the person who did this tried to use the card or someone else finding it & trying to use it. It could help in solving who had done this.

When all is said & done you have to ask yourself what are the odds?

Tim & his new bride have gone there separate ways for several hours & in this time frame his mom ends up dead & they really have no alibi.

Tim cancels the credit card but the credit card lady not only gets the date wrong when he canceled, she also got it wrong on why he was canceling the card.

Tim completely fails a polygraph but his wife only fails one question & the most important question of them all- Do you know who murdered Terri McClure.

The one place he decided not to look for his mom cause of a feeling he got, she actually turns up.

That this happens on the happiest night of his life, his wedding night.

To me those are very slim odds this happening with him being innocent.
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Old 01-02-2010, 10:49 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Why would you assume that they were ubable to prove that the call occured on the 14th? That evidence would not have been enough to convict him, that doesn;t mean that it weren't able to prove it.
Because that would have been beyond circumstantial evidence; you'd have the suspect having foreknowledge that the victim would die. You get that, plus the potential motive, plus the alibi questions, and you have a case that any half-competent D.A. should be at least able to the jury and/or get a plea; since that didn't happen here, I really have to question it. Obviously, I'd have to see the actual record to know exactly what happened, but this is my guess.

Quote:
Don;t you find it interesting that her purse is missing and Tim decides that cancelling her credit cards is of majoir importance. If Tim killed his mother and tossed her purse to the side, there's a good chance someone might find it. That person may decide to use the credit cards. This would screw Tim because the police would notice that someone is using her credit cards while she's still dead. That person may very well tell the cops where he found the purse as well as some other vital items.
How in the world does that screw Tim? Now you have an identifiable suspect (probably with either a criminal record and/or substance abuse problem) in possession and using the stolen property of the murder victim - that's a number one suspect in my book. Moreover, reporting the cards as stolen would likely make it easier to find the perp since they'd be flagged as stolen when used (this may not have been the case in 1983, however, as I'm not sure how instant authorization was)

Quote:
How do you explain the pillow?
What pillow? Yes, I know the reenactment showed a pillow (or something) behind the victim's head, but no pillow was mentioned in the segment, so I'd like to see a crime scene report before presuming there was actually a pillow there.

But even if there was, so what? It's not uncommon for people to travel with pillows in their car, especially on longer and/or overnight trips. Certainly, if there was a pillow and that pillow was linked to Tim's house or his wife's house or the hotel, that MIGHT mean something, but the fact that we heard nothing about this pillow and its provenience from the police suggests to me it's an non-issue.

Quote:
Why would a random robber bring a pillow with him to commit the murder? Why did the robber think he had to muffle the shot.
This is pure speculation on your part. There's nothing said in the segment to think there even was a pillow, that, if there was, it wasn't a normal thing in the car. Moreover, nothing was said about being shot through the pillow - that would be clear from the crime scene, and again, was not mentioned AT ALL by law enforcement.

Quote:
Why would a robber kill her in the first place? Why not steal the car?
Who knows? Tweaked-up, sadistic, it went "bad," etc... sometimes robbers use senseless and/or extraordinary violence. Why steal the car? Robbing people outside casinos would be someone looking for cash and/or other easy to fence items. Junky old cars aren't worth anything and are much easier to find.

Quote:
Why shoot her in the head execution style?
Why not? Head's a good place to shoot someone if you want them dead. This doesn't mean anything to me.

Quote:
Perhaps that's what the pillow was used for. To muffle the shot.
This would be crystal clear from the scene. The police didn't mention it and I haven't seen a crime scene report, so unless you have (and if you have, please share! this is just speculation upon speculation.

Quote:
Beverly McGowan was killed for far less money.
5K may certainly be sufficient motive, but without extra evidence (bad relationship, money problems, etc.), it's just not a very good one.
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