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Old 02-13-2010, 10:06 AM   #136
marlins3
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The wife may be the extremely shy sort that didn't want to appear on camera. Generally, Stack would mention that someone wouldn't appear on camera during a certain segment. However, they usually reserved that (not always, but most of the time) when it was a law enforcement person or someone in authority who refused to appear.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:59 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlins3
The wife may be the extremely shy sort that didn't want to appear on camera. Generally, Stack would mention that someone wouldn't appear on camera during a certain segment. However, they usually reserved that (not always, but most of the time) when it was a law enforcement person or someone in authority who refused to appear.
Perhaps. But what about HER parents who were with her? Interview them.

Another thing and this makes me think Tim is either naive or guilty and I can't decide. He checks the parking lots of the Casinos for his mother's car. All but the one she was found in! If this is true, and he is guilty why even admit that to the cops? See what I mean? Either naive and innocent, or guilty and just gave the cops more ammunition.

But $5000 for a mother that you love? Man oh man is that a weak motive for murder. $5000 in 1983 was still not a lot of money.

I'd like to examine the relationship with Tim's wife and mother. Let's face it, a mother in-law/wife relationship is the worst possible one in the world. No relationship is worse off in general. A man has killed for his wife before. But his mother? Worth looking into
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:55 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockworkhigh
Perhaps. But what about HER parents who were with her? Interview them.

Another thing and this makes me think Tim is either naive or guilty and I can't decide. He checks the parking lots of the Casinos for his mother's car. All but the one she was found in! If this is true, and he is guilty why even admit that to the cops? See what I mean? Either naive and innocent, or guilty and just gave the cops more ammunition.

But $5000 for a mother that you love? Man oh man is that a weak motive for murder. $5000 in 1983 was still not a lot of money.

I'd like to examine the relationship with Tim's wife and mother. Let's face it, a mother in-law/wife relationship is the worst possible one in the world. No relationship is worse off in general. A man has killed for his wife before. But his mother? Worth looking into
Some might think it is a lot of money. There have been cases where people have been killed for a lot less then this. Yes he loved his mother & was close to her but people can surprise ya.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:07 AM   #139
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Some interesting comments about the wife not being interviewed. That left me scratching my head too. I always wondered if McClure's bride in the re-enactment was his actual wife, or an actress. I would guess the latter.

In the end, would it really matter though? I mean, is there anything the wife could have said that would have changed matters? I would imagine her statements would be extremely similar to McClure's. And that includes all the bad stuff about the failing the lie detector test and what not.
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:49 AM   #140
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I mean, is there anything the wife could have said that would have changed matters?
yes. who knows what she would have said.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:39 PM   #141
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I think the single biggest thing - among several - that is a problem for McClure is that credit card cancellation note. Presumably, notes kept by someone sitting at a call center are roughly in date order - i.e., notes are taken in the order in which calls are received. Therefore, I would imagine the note was found with a bunch of other stuff dated Friday, and had probably been kept in that order since it was taken. McClure can say it was Monday, but I'd give the odds on his telling the truth on that point at about 100 to 1.
I am also on the fence, but also believe that he may have been innocent.

[Credit card]

I can very easily believe the Credit Card issue.

There could easily be reasons why it was noted as Friday as a genuine mistake or on the other hand on purpose.

Back in 1983 Credit cards weren't as big business as they are now, it could simply be that someone made a note about it and bundled it with a bunch of other notes, for all we know the credit card people could also have been doing other jobs which were more important such as bank accounts or loans - then when they were doing their timekeeping or filling timesheets (or whatever they did) filled said call in on that day to pad out their timesheets.

It's not unusual for that to happen even today, except we have recordings and logs today but we wouldnt have had then. If managers don't (need to) check back on the logs for any reason no-one knows any different.

I mean, the employee said thats exactly how they remembered it "to the best of their recollection", but we never see that employee on camera and for all we know they could have been saying this to save their own butt from a frying and save their job.


[Lie detector test]

Strangely, the officer told him to sit back and close his eyes and had long pauses, maybe up to a minute between each question.

The suspect said he had never taken a test before and this was his first. No doubt you would be nervous at that.

To make it worse, you're considered a suspect.

And to add to that, you have your eyes closed, sitting back in a semi-relaxed state - almost instantly placing you in the realms of imagination and illusion - you can make a fantasy of whatever you want. Get asked a lot of questions about murder and with your eyes closed if someone feeds you enough details you can almost fantasize that you were the one who did it even if you weren't.

[Murder Weapon]

I'm pretty sure that Unsolved Mysteries mentioned the mother had been shot, but never mentioned anything about ballistics tests or checking to see anything about the weapon. I think it may have said it was "small caliber" - but nothing more. Did they even bother making any check if Tim owned the gun that was used or even had any access to a weapon or had a license? Was it a personal weapon of the mothers? Why did they not investigate or make any mention of this angle?
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Old 02-17-2010, 03:21 PM   #142
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Also, after another watching of the segment I looked more closely at the note the credit card controller had made.

The date is at the top, am guessing it's supposed to be 1-14-83.

But the number 4 is transcribed in such a poor manner you could easily mistake it for a 7 or even a 9.

So the date could easily be 1-17-83 or 1-19-83.

And if it's 1-17-83, it very easily fits with the correct version of events.


Another note, again it may be a mistake on UM's part - when they found the body of the mother and her car, they said that the keys were in the ignition and the car was locked. But the driver side window was rolled down. Could someone have fired shots in from outside the car?
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:08 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by unidentified
I mean, the employee said thats exactly how they remembered it "to the best of their recollection", but we never see that employee on camera and for all we know they could have been saying this to save their own butt from a frying and save their job.
not actually. the employee said they were positive that it was Friday. I
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:14 PM   #144
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not actually. the employee said they were positive that it was Friday. I

I agree with unidentified, wiseguy< and have posted those sentiments before in other threads. The person at the credit card company may have had certain quotas to meet (or anything) that would make them change a simple credit memo from the 17th to the 14th (or whatever the acse was). Calsl were not recorded then. Caller ID did not exist (at least not to the general public and most businesses) so checking phone logs would be fruitless. If the person at the credit card company misplaced the memo then went on vacation a few days and returned to (gasp!) suddenly find he/she forgot to process it, they could easily either mistake the date or intentionally put a fals date down to cover themselves. I understand the person at the credit card company said he/she was convinced the call was on Friday but if that person is covering up their mistake, they may lie (knowing the lie would never be detected). This case troubles me (not in a literal sense but it is one that makes me question more than most cases). I really can;t explain why I feel this way but something keep me from immediately blaming Tim McClure. I honestly don't think he killed his mother. As far as polygraphs, they are the best that police have to work with but they are far from being an exact science. Some friend in law enforcement (one is a former Maryland state policeman who toldd me the Frederick Police screwed themselves on the Tracy Kirkpatrick case by not immediately contacting the state police for help), said that person who is generally nervous by nature (as Tim McClure seems to be) would have ahard time passing a polygraph, no matter what questions are asked. Remember, too, that Tim realizes he is being questioned as a suspect. In the middle of the test, he could let his mind wander and worry how his answers will show up even if he is telling the truth. the same goes for his wife on the one infamous question she failed (she may panic and think "Oh no! They think Tim did it".
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:12 AM   #145
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i think alot of people are conveniently writing off the failure of the lie detector test and the credit card thing too easily. But even if you can get past those, consider each other thing that makes Tim look guilty, you can put them in one of two categories.

1. Tim seems to know an awful lot about a crime he supposedly should know absolutely nothing about.

2. his alibi has lots of problems, everything from a HUGE gap to things that just don't make any sense.

pretty much everything else falls into one of those two categories. those are some pretty huge hurdles to overcome to believe Tim is innocent.

in order to believe Tim is innocent, you have to believe all of the following.

1. the lie detector was wrong.
2. the credit card person was wrong.
3. the police were wrong.
4. Tim has ESP or psychic abilities (knows where his mother would be found, knows her purse was stolen even before it was mentioned to him, knows she'll be found at a casino)
5. That nobody can recall seeing the 6'6 man with a mullet in a 8 hour block of time, or his wife for a 6 hour block of time is just a coincidence
6. Tim gambling by himself on his wedding night is not out of the ordinary.
7. Tim not being able to recall which dance halls they went to doesn't make him look suspicious

that's alot to overcome.

I think somebody phrased it accurately: Either Tim is guilty or he suffers from the worst luck of anyone on the planet.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:23 PM   #146
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Maybe i am drinking the Tim McClure koolaid but I believe this guy as ridiculous as his stories sound.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:26 PM   #147
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Maybe i am drinking the Tim McClure koolaid but I believe this guy as ridiculous as his stories sound.
He isn't a bright guy, I think we can all agree on this unanimously. Maybe a well intentioned man, but does not appear to be an overly bright man. There is also no motive and nothing that I remember would give him any reason to murder his mother other than the $5000 left to him for life insurance. In 1983, that wouldn't have even bought a new car. And to off your mother for that? Especially when by all accounts you had an unusually close relationship with her?

She could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't know why but this case is always what I thought of first hand. Like a random robbery or such.
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Old 04-04-2010, 04:02 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peachysquirt21
I don't know about anyone else but to me 5K back in 1983 is a nice chunk of change.
Hell, 5k would be a nice chunk of change now!!!

Not that I'm sure he did it, but one possible motive could be that they were TOO close. Perhaps it wasn't for the money, or because the mom disapproved of his new wife, maybe it was that Tim felt smothered by his mom, and that she was too needy. Maybe he felt that he wouldn't be able to truly move on with this new chapter in his life if his mom was still in the picture.

At first, I took he and his mom being close to be a sign of his innocence, but now I'm starting to wonder.
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Old 04-04-2010, 04:10 PM   #149
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachysquirt21
I don't know about anyone else but to me 5K back in 1983 is a nice chunk of change.

Hell, 5k would be a nice chunk of change now!!!
Mos def.

I don't know why so many people feel that 5K is not enough money to kill for.

We've seen people killed for much less money on UM.

If Tim had debts or needed cash right away, I could definitely see him rationalize murdering his mother as a necessary action.

Quote:
in order to believe Tim is innocent, you have to believe all of the following.

1. the lie detector was wrong.
2. the credit card person was wrong.
3. the police were wrong.
4. Tim has ESP or psychic abilities (knows where his mother would be found, knows her purse was stolen even before it was mentioned to him, knows she'll be found at a casino)
5. That nobody can recall seeing the 6'6 man with a mullet in a 8 hour block of time, or his wife for a 6 hour block of time is just a coincidence
6. Tim gambling by himself on his wedding night is not out of the ordinary.
7. Tim not being able to recall which dance halls they went to doesn't make him look suspicious

that's alot to overcome.

I think somebody phrased it accurately: Either Tim is guilty or he suffers from the worst luck of anyone on the planet.
I concur. In order to believe Tim is innocent you have to believe there is some mass conspiracy to frame him for the murder. I mean how else could a credit card person lie intentionally.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:51 PM   #150
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I'm in the minority that thinks Tim McClure did not kill his mother. I just don't think, given his close relationship with his mother, he would kill her for $5000. Lets also remember that Tim is the one who contacted UM and wanted them to profile her case. If he killed her and did that it wouldn't make much sense as the police at the time didn't have any evidence against him and he knew UM would undoubtedly research the case and if they found out any new info it could possibly land him in jail. I think he called UM because he was genuinely grief stricken at his mother's death and wanted her killer found.
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