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Old 05-03-2021, 07:46 PM   #61
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Why, aren't you all sunshine and rainbows...

You asked "murder, accident or suicide?" You didn't ask us to write a thesis on the subject. I've got nothing to add to those who support the suicide theory. You want me to just repeat what they said?
You have to excuse XCalibur. They aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, but like to talk down and bark at people but have the logic of a potato.

XCalibur is like one of those little dogs constantly barking at one of the big dogs.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:24 PM   #62
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Why, aren't you all sunshine and rainbows...

You asked "murder, accident or suicide?" You didn't ask us to write a thesis on the subject. I've got nothing to add to those who support the suicide theory. You want me to just repeat what they said?
First off, welcome to the board Stratego!

You might be right about the suicide theory. I just wish that LE had been able to clear up the discrepancy regarding the rifle found at the scene. Because until someone can offer a logical explanation as to how Ladner either shot himself with an already "disassembled" firearm, or how he could have shot himself and THEN "disassembled" the firearm, I just can't get on board with suicide.

To be honest, this is one of those cases that makes me wonder if LE has additional info that they simply haven't made public. As I stated up thread, I just don't understand how LE could have reached any conclusion without at least having the bullet that killed Ladner. Quite frankly, considering the serious lack of evidence in this case, I'm not at all surprised that the Ladners were unable to accept the "official ruling". This is all JMO however, and I respect your opinion just as much.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:25 PM   #63
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You have to excuse XCalibur. They aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, but like to talk down and bark at people but have the logic of a potato.

XCalibur is like one of those little dogs constantly barking at one of the big dogs.

Honestly, that came out of left field. Is it that much trouble to simply ask for an elaboration?

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's just a little grumpy today.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:46 PM   #64
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Thanks for the welcome, Blue Galexy! I've actually been a lurker here for many years spying on you guys.

The "disassembled" rifle is strange indeed, but it's difficult to speculate about that if we don't know exactly what this means. Do they mean the rifle was broken or a part fell off? I think that could happen if he shot himself in the tree and it fell down. But I have to admit I know nothing about firearms, so I find it difficult to speculate about this aspect regardless.

What makes me believe this was suicide is the coroner's report, especially the bloodied hand and the close contact wound in the right temple.

It could be that LE has more info than we are aware of, but I sort of got the impression they were just kind of sloppy in this case. I think they could've tried a little harder to look for that bullet.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:38 PM   #65
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Thanks for the welcome, Blue Galexy! I've actually been a lurker here for many years spying on you guys.

The "disassembled" rifle is strange indeed, but it's difficult to speculate about that if we don't know exactly what this means. Do they mean the rifle was broken or a part fell off? I think that could happen if he shot himself in the tree and it fell down. But I have to admit I know nothing about firearms, so I find it difficult to speculate about this aspect regardless.

What makes me believe this was suicide is the coroner's report, especially the bloodied hand and the close contact wound in the right temple.

It could be that LE has more info than we are aware of, but I sort of got the impression they were just kind of sloppy in this case. I think they could've tried a little harder to look for that bullet.
On this point Stratego, you and I completely agree, lol. And you're absolutely right about the fact that the "broken" rifle is only half of the equation...for me at least. Until LE can recover the bullet that killed Ladner, and examine the ballistics evidence, I can't really come to any definitive conclusion here.

I will say however, that as sloppy as LE was during the Ladner case, I've actually seen worse...if you can believe it, lol. You ought to check out the Theresa Bier case on The Charley Project. The "Bigfoot did it" defense just doesn't fly IMO. Even more absurd than that however, is the fact that LE just seemed to roll with it. Go figure...
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:50 PM   #66
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You have to excuse XCalibur. They aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, but like to talk down and bark at people but have the logic of a potato.

XCalibur is like one of those little dogs constantly barking at one of the big dogs.
I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that I simply don't buy into some of the arguments you made for the Rob definitely did it crowd in the Angela Hammond thread. I'm hardly alone in that respect. I explained at length why I disagreed, and you did little to refute anything I said except arbitrarily say I have the logic of a potato.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:55 PM   #67
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Honestly, that came out of left field. Is it that much trouble to simply ask for an elaboration?

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's just a little grumpy today.
Not really. Its just I've noticed on here lately that its become the cool thing to take a crap on parents' who lost children to a gunshot wound and entrench the suicide theory, while all the while making them all about to be liars. which in this case the Ladners would just about have to be. Both about the shady piece of dung who showed up at the coroner's office telling her to forget about the case, and the bullet they found. I'm not saying you did that, but many people who write this off to suicide have.

On some other sites I've seen a number of posts from people in Norman's town who lived there at the time. And pretty much all of them say Lumpkin is about as crooked as a three dollar bill and Norman was likely murdered by the Dixie Mafia. of course that doesn't prove Norman was murdered, but there are other reasons I think so, and I discussed them at length above.

If I came off as nasty, I apologize. I admit the recent it had to be suicide trend on the board has annoyed me and made me a little crabby. I loathe corruption of any sort.
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:37 PM   #68
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I suspect a lot of this stems from the fact that I simply don't buy into some of the arguments you made for the Rob definitely did it crowd in the Angela Hammond thread. I'm hardly alone in that respect. I explained at length why I disagreed, and you did little to refute anything I said except arbitrarily say I have the logic of a potato.
Nah you're cool XC. I was goofin'. But that was harsh. People on this board have to realize that people have theories different from theirs.

Not everyone is going to agree with one theory on a unsolved case.
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Old 05-03-2021, 11:18 PM   #69
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I'm certainly not trying to make them out to be liars. I simply don't know what happened at the funeral. I think the strange guy might either be a looney who gets off on that kind of stuff or it's an honest misunderstanding. I've seen it happen, people misinterpreting other people's words or intentions because they're emotional. Even in the case of murder, I don't think they'd send someone to threaten the mother. I think an anonymous letter or phone call would make more sense.

I don't know if the sheriff is corrupt. I think more often than not it's just sheer incompetence rather than corruption. I do find it mindboggling the family had to search for the bullet that killed their son.

I think the coroner's report supports the suicide theory and I just haven't seen anything that contradicts that conclusion. The broken rifle is strange, but I don't think it points to murder rather than suicide.

Anyway, just MHO.
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:28 AM   #70
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The sheriff could have been corrupt. The Ladner's could have been grasping at straws to try and prove a murder that didn't happen. Norman could have committed suicide.

All three of these things can be true at the same time.
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Old 05-06-2021, 02:30 AM   #71
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To address the issue of the man who allegedly showed up at the coroner's office and apparently warned Mrs. Ladner not open up the case, I definitely think this is one of the strangest aspects of the case, for a number of reasons.

But I don't see how she could have misinterpreted this. Its pretty straight forward. So in my view either she has to be making the story up, or it really did happen exactly the way she said.

No point in discussing the possibility she made it up, that's pretty clear cut either you believe her or you don't.

But for the sake of argument, lets say it did happen. I think then that whoever this guy was, he either was somehow involved in Norman's death, or he had some kind of knowledge of what happened to him or who WAS involved. No random concerned stranger with no involvement or knowledge of the case would just walk up to a woman he didn't even know and warn her to drop a case for her own good, and that she would never find the person who killed her son. That's just ludicrous who in the world would say that to somebody unless they know something? Assuming this guy existed and he said this, he almost had to be connected to it in some way, or have some kind of knowledge of what happened to Norman.

I'd have to think it was probably the latter. Because if this guy was somehow involved in Norman's death, it seems odd he would call attention to himself and basically admit to her that he wasn't in fact murdered, but she would never find out who did it. I just wonder if she ever tried to found out who he was. If that could be revealed it might tell a lot. I think its entirely possibly he could have been someone who was genuinely concerned, but if he was, he knew something. Possibly that investigating the case my put her and the rest of her family's life in danger. But there is no way he was just some random stranger telling her what he did without some kind of knowledge of what happened to Norman. That makes zero sense.
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Old 05-06-2021, 08:36 AM   #72
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Like I said, I don't know what happened, so I'm not comfortable to straight out call her a liar. But if we're speculating, then I believe it's a possibility, at least that she embellished the encounter to support her own suspicions. Even more so now I realize it didn't take place at the funeral but the coroner's office. How did this stranger know they were even there, let alone to voice their objections to the ruling? Why would he take the risk of showing his face to them? His words also sounded more threatening than helpful. In that case, I don't know why the conspirators would send this guy. Why wouldn't the coroner just tell them it would be better to drop the case? I mean, this guy did the supposed murderers no favours by admitting he was murdered. Yes, I do find this story very suspicious. I think desperate parents can resort to anything, so I do believe it's possible she's intentionally not being truthful.
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:39 AM   #73
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I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I'm starting to wonder if this isn't just standard operating procedure for UM. If you think about it, how many UM segments have included the dark, mysterious stranger who approached the grieving loved ones out of the blue, only to issue creepy, incriminating "warnings" about their loved one's death/disappearance/whatever? I can think of a few just off the top of my head.

Please don't misunderstand...I'm absolutely NOT accusing Mr. or Mrs. Ladner of any dishonesty here. The encounter with the creepy stranger may have happened exactly as described. I simply think it's interesting how many UM cases end up featuring just such an occurrence.
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:13 PM   #74
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Ok, I only read the current page on this thread, and maybe this has been said before. Regarding the encounter with the threatening stranger at the funeral: I believe her completely and think the entire conversation really happened. I don't think the stranger had any association with the killer(s). (I am not saying I believe Norman was murdered, because I am still very uncertain about what happened to him). Mrs. Ladner seemed like a poised and strong person in her UM interview and I think she was very publicly putting pressure on the police, even before the funeral. The man who threatened her likely had some association with the police and took issue with her.
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:16 PM   #75
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Ok, I only read the current page on this thread, and maybe this has been said before. Regarding the encounter with the threatening stranger at the funeral: I believe her completely and think the entire conversation really happened. I don't think the stranger had any association with the killer(s). (I am not saying I believe Norman was murdered, because I am still very uncertain about what happened to him). Mrs. Ladner seemed like a poised and strong person in her UM interview and I think she was very publicly putting pressure on the police, even before the funeral. The man who threatened her likely had some association with the police and took issue with her.
This is a really good point Jon. It absolutely wouldn't surprise me if an encounter that seemed so sinister to Mrs. Ladner was in reality just a lazy, corrupt LEO who was trying to keep her quiet and cover his own a$$. Obviously, that's JMO of course.
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