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Old 11-10-2020, 11:42 AM   #46
bigted12
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I think you have to look at what happened, if dale was a part of this, why not do it alone? why not take the platinum, sell it and go off into the sun? we suppose that dale is the "man on the inside" he knows the plant and he's tipped off the people who are helping him, the man on the CCTV. he knows his way around, where everything is.

Dale could have his cake and eat it, why not plan to have the guy in the mask tie him up? the guy in the mask flees with the platinum and then sells it, giving dale his share, he gets his job, his pension and his family. wouldn't that be a smarter move than what many people suppose he did?

another thing that i've not seen asked is why UM didn't have the original CCTV video? why did UM have to make their own? the way the management of the plant behaved is really strange, the plant let a lot of people go, they could have let dale go, many others were, instead he was given a less paying job as security. people take that as it could have played a factor, that dale was angry, but you could take it other way, that he was valued and respected so much that he was kept on in any capacity, just to give him a job. he saved peoples lives. 30 years work, this was an asset to the company.

so why throw him under the bus when theres no real evidence to say he's guilty? i think it's strange that you'd keep someone around for 30 years who can easily dismiss later as a thief, even when theres zero evidence to back it up. maybe i'd have to ask why theres no original CCTV video, only an UM reenactment.

Somethings wrong there.
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Old 11-10-2020, 12:59 PM   #47
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crystaldawn did a great update about this in her blog about a year ago (can read about it in the other, much longer DK thread here)

I'll still hold with my opinion that the revelation that Platinum Theft had been an ongoing problem, even going back a number of years, brings up an even simpler scenario to mind--the Bradford theft was perpetrated by an organized band of thieves (or even a single thief) that was also responsible for one or more of the previous thefts that crystaldawn mentioned.

The easiest/simplest way I see it going down is this--the thief (or thieves) picked the Bradford plant as their next score. At least one person gets inside and at some point runs across Dale (probably by accident, on account of whoever it was, not knowing the plant's layout).

After accosting him, the intruder uses him to locate the platinum and perhaps load it up. Then, he's marched out of the building where I'm guessing one or more accomplices were waiting in a getaway vehicle.

I don't think Dale was killed inside the plant or on the grounds--you would think if he was, some type/trace of physical evidence pointing to that would have been discovered. I think he was loaded up with the platinum, and then as Chichester Crowe suggested, taken into the woods, shot and probably buried in a shallow grave.
Rather depends how he was murdered-a knifing or shooting would leave obvious traces, but if he was tied up then he could have easily been throttled with a ligature or the guy broken his neck with a choke hold, he could have been suffocated with a bag etc-from memory Dale was a smallish looking guy & the robber on the camera was powerfully built-so he would have been unlikely to have been able to do much physically even if untied.
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Old 11-10-2020, 01:28 PM   #48
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I think you have to look at what happened, if dale was a part of this, why not do it alone? why not take the platinum, sell it and go off into the sun? we suppose that dale is the "man on the inside" he knows the plant and he's tipped off the people who are helping him, the man on the CCTV. he knows his way around, where everything is.

Dale could have his cake and eat it, why not plan to have the guy in the mask tie him up? the guy in the mask flees with the platinum and then sells it, giving dale his share, he gets his job, his pension and his family. wouldn't that be a smarter move than what many people suppose he did?

another thing that i've not seen asked is why UM didn't have the original CCTV video? why did UM have to make their own? the way the management of the plant behaved is really strange, the plant let a lot of people go, they could have let dale go, many others were, instead he was given a less paying job as security. people take that as it could have played a factor, that dale was angry, but you could take it other way, that he was valued and respected so much that he was kept on in any capacity, just to give him a job. he saved peoples lives. 30 years work, this was an asset to the company.

so why throw him under the bus when theres no real evidence to say he's guilty? i think it's strange that you'd keep someone around for 30 years who can easily dismiss later as a thief, even when theres zero evidence to back it up. maybe i'd have to ask why theres no original CCTV video, only an UM reenactment.

Somethings wrong there.
Because he would then be known as the perpetrator rather than the victim. It is highly unlikely he had the contacts to shift the platinum-inside men are usually just regular bods who provide inside information about how many staff will be on duty at certain times, security procedures, who has keys/codes to bank vaults, leave the doors unlocked etc. The guys running things are the ones handling the taking of the money, gold etc & then the fencing & laundering aspects.

My belief is Dale was going to be tied up & would bide his time before getting his hands on the proceeds, however having let himself be secured he was then murdered by the guy on the CCTV in a double-cross, smuggled out under the cover & then disposed of somewhere remote. After all what use was he now to the other guy? All he could do was blab who this guy & any associates were & cut into their profit margin-inside men usually crack under pressure from the police pretty fast.

I suspect it was nothing to do with the company & was the decision of the police-they were likely holding something back for a future prosecution that was captured on the footage. I don't really see his actions as especially different from what any other employee would have done-he saw a dangerous situation & stopped it from going any further, it doesn't make him a good employee overall in terms of attitude or productivity-we have no access to his employee records. Likely he was not let go due to the severance package they would probably have had to pay him-having been there for decades, as opposed to guys who had been there for months or a few years.

From the snapshots of the CCTV it is also of a very low quality, it is possible it was realistically unbroadcastable to where it would be of any use & so that very realistic construction was done. This was 1987 when CCTV & non-commercial video technology was of a very poor standard, it would be interesting to know if the police have in more recent times ever tried to have it worked on to enhance it-he was declared deceased in 2014 & while I would imagine the theft charges could no longer be bought, there is no limitation on murder.
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Old 11-10-2020, 03:58 PM   #49
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UM have shown low quality CCTV videos before, i remember one segment where someone robbed a bank, the quality is like 2 or 3 pixels moving infact whydidn't dale unplug all the cctv cameras?

i think you're going against what the very obvious is, because you're too stuck on a theory, it's really easy to dismiss everything that makes sense with a "but maybe not..." the real world has a certain way of playing out, things go a certain way, people 99% of the time act a certain way, when we have to believe that a 1% is applicable not just once, but a dozen times, then it becomes unrealistic.

No, we don't have access to his work records, but when a company keeps someone around for 30 years, has the chance to let them go, but finds them another job, i mean why not get a 6ft 5, 300lb 25 year old to be security guard? you could surely pay some college kid less, no? why give it to dale? he was a 50 year 140 lb 5'3 man, hardly scary eh? so this this job must have been given to him based on being liked, more than abilty right? you have to see that, and we have an example of where he saved lives and saved a serious amount of money in an "heroic action"

so when you say "we don't know if he was a good employee" you're ignoring the very obvious, i mean surely he did have faults, but based on the narrative of what unsolved mysteries tells us, based on how ihis 30 years there played out, we'd have to look at it and say he was a good employee. like i say i think you're so set on a theory that you're missing really obvious signs because it's doesn't fit what you want it to fit.
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Old 11-10-2020, 04:27 PM   #50
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UM have shown low quality CCTV videos before, i remember one segment where someone robbed a bank, the quality is like 2 or 3 pixels moving infact whydidn't dale unplug all the cctv cameras?

i think you're going against what the very obvious is, because you're too stuck on a theory, it's really easy to dismiss everything that makes sense with a "but maybe not..." the real world has a certain way of playing out, things go a certain way, people 99% of the time act a certain way, when we have to believe that a 1% is applicable not just once, but a dozen times, then it becomes unrealistic.

No, we don't have access to his work records, but when a company keeps someone around for 30 years, has the chance to let them go, but finds them another job, i mean why not get a 6ft 5, 300lb 25 year old to be security guard? you could surely pay some college kid less, no? why give it to dale? he was a 50 year 140 lb 5'3 man, hardly scary eh? so this this job must have been given to him based on being liked, more than abilty right? you have to see that, and we have an example of where he saved lives and saved a serious amount of money in an "heroic action"

so when you say "we don't know if he was a good employee" you're ignoring the very obvious, i mean surely he did have faults, but based on the narrative of what unsolved mysteries tells us, based on how ihis 30 years there played out, we'd have to look at it and say he was a good employee. like i say i think you're so set on a theory that you're missing really obvious signs because it's doesn't fit what you want it to fit.
I lean toward an inside job, but don't totally rule out poor security practices & him being a victim that had nothing to do with it. Why would you unplug the cameras? It would make you look guilty-what logical reason would he have to do it?

He might well have been a model employee for 20-25 odd years & then lost interest meaning he phoned it in to pick up a paycheque & perhaps clashed with management on issues-again we are unlikely to ever know, it seems strange that the guy from the company who was interviewed was so negative toward him-unless he 100% thought he had made off with the money when it was filmed then it does point toward being issues with him. Again, I don't see how jumping in a vehicle & driving it away from the molten glass is especially out of the ordinary & was likely about self-preservation/instict & something pretty much any employee would do, it isn't like he ran into a burning building & started carrying people out. This was an industrial incident/near miss-they happen in plants, warehouses, factories etc on a fairly regular basis due to the vehicles, substances etc being used. One would suspect he had seen/heard about many of them during his decades there to where they weren't out of the ordinary.

I would suggest him being given the security job was likely so they didn't have to pay him a huge redundancy package due to his tenure, his knowledge of the premises/procedures from his 27 years there, that it was effectively a non-job that had had to be done(basically patrolling an empty building) & would keep him away from other employees where it seems his own productivity had dropped & perhaps he was causing others to drop off as well. As for hiring an unknown outsider as a security guard it is a risky business-you have no idea if they are the sort of person that is going to leave doors open, invite people in for a party, get their buddies to rob the place etc. Who better to use as a security guy than a 'safe pair of hands' like the 50 year old guy that has been there for 27 years, likely never shown any interest in leaving to work elsewhere, knows the place inside out etc?
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Old 11-10-2020, 05:05 PM   #51
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I would suggest him being given the security job was likely so they didn't have to pay him a huge redundancy package due to his tenure, his knowledge of the premises/procedures from his 27 years there, that it was effectively a non-job that had had to be done(basically patrolling an empty building) & would keep him away from other employees where it seems his own productivity had dropped & perhaps he was causing others to drop off as well. As for hiring an unknown outsider as a security guard it is a risky business-you have no idea if they are the sort of person that is going to leave doors open, invite people in for a party, get their buddies to rob the place etc. Who better to use as a security guy than a 'safe pair of hands' like the 50 year old guy that has been there for 27 years, likely never shown any interest in leaving to work elsewhere, knows the place inside out etc?


Theres a hell of a lot of contradictions in what you're saying! i agree a 100% with your last sentence, you use the words "SAFE pair of hands" to describe dale,or the logic of hiring someone like him based on the context, i agree, 30 years of experience, he knew the plant, you're arriving to the conclusion as anyone else would looking at the whole narrative. dale seemed a safe, reliable person to keep around. not untrustworthy, and he seemed the right person to have around, it didn't seem worth it getting someone else in, although companies hire new security guards everyday.

I worked in a place which had security guards, and they came and went every few months, and in charge of looking after a lot of expensive things. you've made my case for me, dale was seen by his employers as a reliable person, he was kept around for 30 years, given a job which would have been more suitable for someone else, but they kept this SAFE pair of hands around.

Based on what unsolved mysteries said and the police about the scene, "the truck and the plant gave a number of clues that suggested that dale had not left voluntarily"

so a safe pair of hands goes missing whos been there for 30 years and it seemingly looks like he was forcebly taken, and yeah i agree, it would cross my mind that maybe he was guilty, maybe he played a role in it. but for the plant to be so so so so sure that dale was guilty? thats throwing him under the bus, when we've already figured out he was in fact reliable.

dale was paying off payments on his truck and on his home, yeah i know, but the plant was also in financial problems, it was letting people go, it later went out of business.

when it comes down to it, dale had more to lose than he had to gain, 6 kids, 2 grandkids who clearly loved him, who would have helped him financially, 6 months off a pension, all that for a cut of 250.000, and thats providing you can sell a very very hot load of platinum, just to live your life alone and on the run, at 50 years old?

although anything is possible, i agree, the world doesn't play out like that. it's not logical
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Old 02-12-2021, 04:38 AM   #52
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I just watched this segment and it sent shivers up my spine. I never knew Mr. Kerstetter so I can't speak to his character and whether or not he would do something like this bur there are several reasons I don't believe Mr. Kerstetter was not a willing participant in this particular incident. First, he worked for this company for 27 years and was very familiar with the plant. He could have gotten the platinum himself if he wanted to. Why would he need an accomplice? Second, if he was involved, why did he make no effort to conceal himself from the camera? I think it's absurd to suggest he looked right at the camera to flaunt his crime. Surely, he knew he would potentially get a lengthy prison sentence for the theft. Why would he want to leave evidence? He seemed like he had a lot to live for with children and grandchildren. Third, if you notice on the camera, the masked intruder was walking very close to him. Although you can't see it, it is very possible he had a gun on Kerstetter and I suspect he did. If they were committing this crime together, he would not be that close to him. What is most disturbing is that the company he worked for more than half his life only cared about the missing platinum. On the segment, the gentleman that was interviewed stated "not only did we have a missing employee but we may have had missing platinum" Shouldn't that have been the other way around? Furthermore, I believe he was killed right there at the plant and there was evidence of it but the company covered it up because it didn't suit their narrative. Of course they wouldn't want people knowing an employee of theirs was murdered on the premises. They don't care if it happened. They just don't want the public knowing about it. Ultimately, I don't believe there will ever be a resolution to this case unless the person who did it confesses but for all we know, they could be dead. I believe they disposed of his body off site in such a way that it will never be found.
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Old 02-12-2021, 02:50 PM   #53
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On the segment, the gentleman that was interviewed stated "not only did we have a missing employee but we may have had missing platinum" Shouldn't that have been the other way around?
Welcome to the board, and excellent point. This line has always rubbed me the wrong way and is one of the reasons why I still believe that an inside job/insurance scam is a possibility in this case.
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Old 02-12-2021, 09:44 PM   #54
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I just watched this segment and it sent shivers up my spine. I never knew Mr. Kerstetter so I can't speak to his character and whether or not he would do something like this bur there are several reasons I don't believe Mr. Kerstetter was not a willing participant in this particular incident. First, he worked for this company for 27 years and was very familiar with the plant. He could have gotten the platinum himself if he wanted to. Why would he need an accomplice? Second, if he was involved, why did he make no effort to conceal himself from the camera? I think it's absurd to suggest he looked right at the camera to flaunt his crime. Surely, he knew he would potentially get a lengthy prison sentence for the theft. Why would he want to leave evidence? He seemed like he had a lot to live for with children and grandchildren. Third, if you notice on the camera, the masked intruder was walking very close to him. Although you can't see it, it is very possible he had a gun on Kerstetter and I suspect he did. If they were committing this crime together, he would not be that close to him. What is most disturbing is that the company he worked for more than half his life only cared about the missing platinum. On the segment, the gentleman that was interviewed stated "not only did we have a missing employee but we may have had missing platinum" Shouldn't that have been the other way around? Furthermore, I believe he was killed right there at the plant and there was evidence of it but the company covered it up because it didn't suit their narrative. Of course they wouldn't want people knowing an employee of theirs was murdered on the premises. They don't care if it happened. They just don't want the public knowing about it. Ultimately, I don't believe there will ever be a resolution to this case unless the person who did it confesses but for all we know, they could be dead. I believe they disposed of his body off site in such a way that it will never be found.
I'd also like to welcome you to the board DC, and thank you for your well stated post! I agree with just about every point you've made. The Kerstetter case is one of UMs segments that I've fixated on the most over the years, and I've NEVER believed he had any culpability in the theft. It's never sat right with me that on the one hand, Kerstetter may have gone through a charade of pretending to be forced by a masked intruder, presumably to disguise his involvement, yet at the same time he allegedly looked into the security camera to "flaunt" his crime to the company. I've also never been able to reconcile the company's portrayal of Kerstetter as a "marginal" employee with the same man who risked his own safety by jumping on an out of control forklift and saving his employer not only from potential property damage, but also a potential danger to his fellow employees.

I've also always been bothered by the fact that although Kerstetter is captured on the security footage a number of times during the commission of the theft, he's never seen leaving the building. This seems especially odd to me if he did indeed "flaunt" his crime by looking directly into the camera (which I've never believed). What would be the point of trying to hide his exit from the building after he'd already "flaunted" his alleged crime? I also always wonder about the masked intruders use of a pallet jack when he/she left the plant. Does anyone know how heavy a half million dollars of platinum pipe would be? While I'm uncertain about whether or not the platinum would have required the use of a pallet jack, I'm positive that moving a corpse would. Ultimately however, one of the most compelling elements of the case IMO, is the amount of time that has passed without any trace of Kerstetter. I'd like to believe that if he had participated in the theft and then disappeared of his own accord, he would have eventually resurfaced at some point, especially after the statute of limitations has passed. That he remains missing without a trace, even to this day, is sadly very telling IMO.

I can also attest, along with our fellow posters, that CrystalDawn has done some excellent and thorough coverage of the Kerstetter case, in addition to several others. For those that haven't yet checked out her blog, I would highly recommend doing so. As you all can tell, I'm a fan, lol.
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Old 02-12-2021, 10:15 PM   #55
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Welcome to the board, and excellent point. This line has always rubbed me the wrong way and is one of the reasons why I still believe that an inside job/insurance scam is a possibility in this case.
Thank you TC, and I agree 100%!! This point has always irritated me to no end. Just like a possible case of suicide is investigated as a homicide until proven otherwise, Kerstetter's case should have been investigated as that of an innocent party gone missing unless and until it was proven otherwise IMO. That his employer immediately accused Kerstetter of wrong doing and LE seemingly went with that narrative, is not only majorly insulting IMO, but hugely suspicious as well. Again JMO.
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Old 02-13-2021, 08:25 AM   #56
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Thank you TC, and I agree 100%!! This point has always irritated me to no end. Just like a possible case of suicide is investigated as a homicide until proven otherwise, Kerstetter's case should have been investigated as that of an innocent party gone missing unless and until it was proven otherwise IMO. That his employer immediately accused Kerstetter of wrong doing and LE seemingly went with that narrative, is not only majorly insulting IMO, but hugely suspicious as well. Again JMO.
Had Dale been seen on the surveillance footage more than once with the intruder, I would have no issue if they investigated it from the angle that he was involved initially. There is one shot of Dale and the masked man, and they are not walking together as depicted in the UM segment. Dale is more out in front of the intruder, making me think he was leading him at gunpoint. How Patrick Foley could have viewed that and thought Dale was involved is beyond me.
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Old 02-13-2021, 10:48 PM   #57
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Had Dale been seen on the surveillance footage more than once with the intruder, I would have no issue if they investigated it from the angle that he was involved initially. There is one shot of Dale and the masked man, and they are not walking together as depicted in the UM segment. Dale is more out in front of the intruder, making me think he was leading him at gunpoint. How Patrick Foley could have viewed that and thought Dale was involved is beyond me.
Yep TC, I could probably have accepted LE's investigative strategy under those circumstances as well, but alas, it was not to be. I will say however, that I was positively delighted when LE chose to release the real surveillance footage not too long ago! It was like a UM dream come true IMO, lol. If there was a mystical UM version of the holy grail, then getting a look at the authentic Kerstetter footage would most likely have been it...at least in THIS fan's opinion. Yes, the footage was badly degraded over time, possibly due to the equipment of the era and less than ideal storage conditions, but what the hell...UM beggars can't always be choosers.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:09 PM   #58
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Had Dale been seen on the surveillance footage more than once with the intruder, I would have no issue if they investigated it from the angle that he was involved initially. There is one shot of Dale and the masked man, and they are not walking together as depicted in the UM segment. Dale is more out in front of the intruder, making me think he was leading him at gunpoint. How Patrick Foley could have viewed that and thought Dale was involved is beyond me.
Agreed on this one. Dale was likely kidnapped and murdered by the masked man. I believe it was someone associated with the plant, possibly a former employee. I think its even possible he didn't intend to murder Dale initially, but possibly Dale either recognized his voice since it was a former co worker or tried to get the upper hand on him and was killed as a result. All the facts point that way.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:09 AM   #59
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Dale's son from the segment seemed very suspect to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the son was the masked man in the video!!!
Yea that guy was just plain creepy. He said he thought his father went to Canada or Australia and would come back in seven years when the statute of limitations was up. Why would he even say such a thing? He was also smiling while being interviewed. If I was on national television, talking about my missing father, I certainly would not be smiling. I don't believe he could have been the masked man though. Whoever it was knew the plant very well. It had to have been someone who was employed there at some point.
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Old 02-24-2021, 02:52 AM   #60
dcguy80
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Join Date: Jan 30, 2021
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And that was my other thing: the platinum weighed at most 40-50 lbs. The masked man looked well built and perfectly capable of carrying it without a dolly but like you said, he would most likely struggle trying to carry out an adult human body. Another point someone was that Dale Kerstetter was only seen once on the camera but the masked man was seen several times. I still maintain my opinion that he was murdered that night and it happened somewhere on the property. I would say they may have dumped him into the furnace, like what happened with Dave Bocks, but the furnace was not being used at the time from what I understand. There is no evidence he left the plant alive.
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