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Old 12-30-2010, 02:17 AM   #106
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So this family member would be watching her be carted away by police and then would let her be placed in foster care for three days? Why not call after one day? If Riemer did have an accomplice, this person helped emotionally destroy a two year old child by abandoning her and then letting her be whisked away to a strange, foster home environment. And again, what motive would anyone (besides whoever murdered Diana) have to do this?
The motivation? Well to help Mike get away. That would be it and again we can speculate all day long and say why would this person do that and why would that person do this. Why would someone stab a person 17 times? I dont know but people do crazy things and human beings do not run on some pre programmed script like a robot. We are all quite capable of inexplainable actions.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:44 AM   #107
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I was reading through the articles from the Seatlle Times on the whole Riemer situation and learned a few new things here. Im wondering how the rest of you might inturpret this information.

They interviewed Mike's father and it seems him and Mike's friends where organizing searches for weeks in the area and ofcourse came up with nothing. They said they followed his trap line and the surronding area. Id really like to know if the traps had been checked when they searched. I mean if there had been animals in the traps then maybe Mike hadnt really gone up there for that purpose. Who knows though as its never mentioned.

Anyhow after the bodies where found Mike's father stated they had searched right in the general area where the truck was but never thought to go back in that particular area because there was no reason for Mike to be back there. He said it wasnt near the traps and that someone had to drive the truck through fairly heavy brush to get back in there. He made the comment that you could see where small trees and branches where knocked down by the truck.

Now ofcourse this again just poses the question of, what does it mean? Did Mike take the truck back in that area so that it wouldnt be found for some time and give him a good head start or did another killer kill Mike somewhere else then drive Diana to that area and kill her?

Mike's father also stated that Mike would have had a gun with him while checking the trap lines. Obviously if you have a pissed off bobcat or coyote caught in a trap youd want to be able to kill it from a distance. So it seems that chances are that Mike was armed. I just wonder if all of Mike's guns where accounted for? Ofcourse he could have had some that where not registered for all we know. I suppose that even if he was armed a random killer could have shot him at a distance then went after Diane with a knife.

As far as Mike's domestic violence goes he had been arrested in October because he kicked in Diane's front door and thrown here to the ground then rubbed her face in the carpet. He was set to go to trial for that in January. It was mentioned that there where two other domestic violence complaints against Mike that did not result in formal charges before that. So I would say his violence towards her is pretty well documented.

I also read that 9 other bodies had been found in wooded areas of Pierce county in less then a two year period. However with several the motivation was robbery and in another the perps where caught. Along with Ruth Cooper and her friend there was an 18 year old girl that had been found in October not far from where Diane was found. Her car had broken down in the area and she was on foot when last seen. So this lends some credence to an unknown serial killer lurking in the wooded area there. Ofcourse then we have to ask if that could be Mike Riemer which puts us back to square one.

One of the articles did say there was a very extensive search for Mike's body. So if he was killed then the killer went to some trouble hiding his body. Something for some reason he didnt do with any of his other victims.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:01 AM   #108
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I was reading through the articles from the Seatlle Times on the whole Riemer situation and learned a few new things here. Im wondering how the rest of you might inturpret this information.

They interviewed Mike's father and it seems him and Mike's friends where organizing searches for weeks in the area and ofcourse came up with nothing. They said they followed his trap line and the surronding area. Id really like to know if the traps had been checked when they searched. I mean if there had been animals in the traps then maybe Mike hadnt really gone up there for that purpose. Who knows though as its never mentioned.

Anyhow after the bodies where found Mike's father stated they had searched right in the general area where the truck was but never thought to go back in that particular area because there was no reason for Mike to be back there. He said it wasnt near the traps and that someone had to drive the truck through fairly heavy brush to get back in there. He made the comment that you could see where small trees and branches where knocked down by the truck.

Now ofcourse this again just poses the question of, what does it mean? Did Mike take the truck back in that area so that it wouldnt be found for some time and give him a good head start or did another killer kill Mike somewhere else then drive Diana to that area and kill her?

Mike's father also stated that Mike would have had a gun with him while checking the trap lines. Obviously if you have a pissed off bobcat or coyote caught in a trap youd want to be able to kill it from a distance. So it seems that chances are that Mike was armed. I just wonder if all of Mike's guns where accounted for? Ofcourse he could have had some that where not registered for all we know. I suppose that even if he was armed a random killer could have shot him at a distance then went after Diane with a knife.

As far as Mike's domestic violence goes he had been arrested in October because he kicked in Diane's front door and thrown here to the ground then rubbed her face in the carpet. He was set to go to trial for that in January. It was mentioned that there where two other domestic violence complaints against Mike that did not result in formal charges before that. So I would say his violence towards her is pretty well documented.

I also read that 9 other bodies had been found in wooded areas of Pierce county in less then a two year period. However with several the motivation was robbery and in another the perps where caught. Along with Ruth Cooper and her friend there was an 18 year old girl that had been found in October not far from where Diane was found. Her car had broken down in the area and she was on foot when last seen. So this lends some credence to an unknown serial killer lurking in the wooded area there. Ofcourse then we have to ask if that could be Mike Riemer which puts us back to square one.

One of the articles did say there was a very extensive search for Mike's body. So if he was killed then the killer went to some trouble hiding his body. Something for some reason he didnt do with any of his other victims.
It seems to me that when UM leaves out crucial details (whether or not all of Riemer's guns were accounted for, if he owned a blade similiar to the one used to kill Diana, etc.) it's because either the police didn't volunteer this information to them, or because they had already ruled those possibilities out. Since this case was three years old at the time it aired on UM, it's safe to assume that investigators would be willing to put everything out there that they had against Riemer with the hopes of catching him (if they truly thought he was their man). How many times has UM profiled a case of a missing person where they did several "extensive searches" to not come up with anything, only to have an update at the end of the segment saying that their remains were found in the area where these "searches" were conducted? It happened quite a few times, David Stone, Arnold Archambeau, Ruby Bruguier to name a few. That's why I don't think it's all that unlikely that his body was left out in the open and just missed by searchers. It's also possible that his body may have been dumped in a body of water, I wonder if authorities did a thorough search of all lakes/ponds within the area.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:17 AM   #109
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It seems to me that when UM leaves out crucial details (whether or not all of Riemer's guns were accounted for, if he owned a blade similiar to the one used to kill Diana, etc.) it's because either the police didn't volunteer this information to them, or because they had already ruled those possibilities out. Since this case was three years old at the time it aired on UM, it's safe to assume that investigators would be willing to put everything out there that they had against Riemer with the hopes of catching him (if they truly thought he was their man). How many times has UM profiled a case of a missing person where they did several "extensive searches" to not come up with anything, only to have an update at the end of the segment saying that their remains were found in the area where these "searches" were conducted? It happened quite a few times, David Stone, Arnold Archambeau, Ruby Bruguier to name a few. That's why I don't think it's all that unlikely that his body was left out in the open and just missed by searchers. It's also possible that his body may have been dumped in a body of water, I wonder if authorities did a thorough search of all lakes/ponds within the area.
Let's see:

1) The cash based nature of Riemer's lifestyle make it unlikely that they would ever really know how many and what type of guns he had unless he made a list of them (which he probably wouldn't do). It would be impossible to know what knives he owned as purchasing a knife leaves few (if any) records.

2) It's not "safe to assume" that investigators would "put everything out there" as it's clear that they have not. They haven't:

a) Stated where they thought Diana was killed.
b) Stated what type of knife was used to kill Diana
c) Stated whether any blood was found on the coat in the car.
d) Stated that they found any evidence where Diana's body was found that would indicate that Riemer had also been injured or killed in that area.

So the idea that they would have put out all of the information necessary to catch doesn't hold much water. In fact they have probably withheld useful information that could have assisted in locating Riemer sooner.

The three killings are likely the work of the same serial killer (The knot indicates that). This killer used a gun for two and a knife for another;however he/she left three of the bodies to be found. Since it would a logical course of action to leave the fourth the same way, it seems likely that if Riemer was dead, his body would likely have been found near where the truck was parked or where Diana was found.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:59 AM   #110
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Let's see:

1) The cash based nature of Riemer's lifestyle make it unlikely that they would ever really know how many and what type of guns he had unless he made a list of them (which he probably wouldn't do). It would be impossible to know what knives he owned as purchasing a knife leaves few (if any) records.

2) It's not "safe to assume" that investigators would "put everything out there" as it's clear that they have not. They haven't:

a) Stated where they thought Diana was killed.
b) Stated what type of knife was used to kill Diana
c) Stated whether any blood was found on the coat in the car.
d) Stated that they found any evidence where Diana's body was found that would indicate that Riemer had also been injured or killed in that area.

So the idea that they would have put out all of the information necessary to catch doesn't hold much water. In fact they have probably withheld useful information that could have assisted in locating Riemer sooner.

The three killings are likely the work of the same serial killer (The knot indicates that). This killer used a gun for two and a knife for another;however he/she left three of the bodies to be found. Since it would a logical course of action to leave the fourth the same way, it seems likely that if Riemer was dead, his body would likely have been found near where the truck was parked or where Diana was found.
Not if he and Diana were killed elsewhere, and then the killer moved the truck and Diana's body to where it was found. I don't think if Riemer is responsible that he's still alive. He left Diana's body and his truck practically out in the open. If he planned on creating a new life elsewhere he could have easily buried or hid Diana's body (in a grave or a nearby body of water) to where they both would still be considered "missing". Obviously an investigator is not going to just hand over his investigation to the public and say, "Here help me figure this one out", but my point was if there was a linchpin in this case that implicated Riemer it would have been brought up in an attempt to capture him.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:36 AM   #111
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Not if he and Diana were killed elsewhere, and then the killer moved the truck and Diana's body to where it was found. I don't think if Riemer is responsible that he's still alive. He left Diana's body and his truck practically out in the open. If he planned on creating a new life elsewhere he could have easily buried or hid Diana's body (in a grave or a nearby body of water) to where they both would still be considered "missing". Obviously an investigator is not going to just hand over his investigation to the public and say, "Here help me figure this one out", but my point was if there was a linchpin in this case that implicated Riemer it would have been brought up in an attempt to capture him.
All of that presupposes Riemer was an intelligent and organized killer,which it is clear he was not. That is..if he was a killer.

It doesn't appear that Riemer planned to go the run;it just became necessary after he killed Diana. He probably improvised a plan, dropped off his daughter returned to the area where Diana was found and hitched or hiked out of the area.

Since he was used to living on not much money (the roofer /trapper jobs indicate that) it's not like he would have had to have made too many changes in his "lifestyle." Also, he would have had to notice that no one was looking for him after about a month or so and after a year it would be obvious that most people would think that he was also killed by Diana's killer(s).

At that point, he'd simply have to change his identity and maintain a low profile. In fact, he could have changed his identity several times since then. Or....if he chose to live in a remote wooded area, it's unlikely that he would have had to change his identity as he would rarely encounter situations where he would have to prove who he was.

While I don't believe that Riemer planned his girlfriends killing (or the other two killings) I DO believe that he took advantage of the time that lapsed between when he committed Diana's murder and the discovery of her body and has made excellent use of the confusion involving his disappearance.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:59 PM   #112
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Not if he and Diana were killed elsewhere, and then the killer moved the truck and Diana's body to where it was found. I don't think if Riemer is responsible that he's still alive. He left Diana's body and his truck practically out in the open. If he planned on creating a new life elsewhere he could have easily buried or hid Diana's body (in a grave or a nearby body of water) to where they both would still be considered "missing". Obviously an investigator is not going to just hand over his investigation to the public and say, "Here help me figure this one out", but my point was if there was a linchpin in this case that implicated Riemer it would have been brought up in an attempt to capture him.
Well if you read the article where they interview his father the truck and Diana werent in an area where they would be readily found. Whoever moved that truck drove through brush and went off the logging road to put it there. They had between 30 and 50 people out in that area and no one found it so Id say it wasnt exactly left out in the open. After reading the interview with the father I dont think Mike and Diane where ever at that spot. I think the truck was moved as well as Diane to that place. Whether if it was by Riemer or someone else is up for debate.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:52 PM   #113
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All of that presupposes Riemer was an intelligent and organized killer,which it is clear he was not. That is..if he was a killer.

It doesn't appear that Riemer planned to go the run;it just became necessary after he killed Diana. He probably improvised a plan, dropped off his daughter returned to the area where Diana was found and hitched or hiked out of the area.

Since he was used to living on not much money (the roofer /trapper jobs indicate that) it's not like he would have had to have made too many changes in his "lifestyle." Also, he would have had to notice that no one was looking for him after about a month or so and after a year it would be obvious that most people would think that he was also killed by Diana's killer(s).

At that point, he'd simply have to change his identity and maintain a low profile. In fact, he could have changed his identity several times since then. Or....if he chose to live in a remote wooded area, it's unlikely that he would have had to change his identity as he would rarely encounter situations where he would have to prove who he was.

While I don't believe that Riemer planned his girlfriends killing (or the other two killings) I DO believe that he took advantage of the time that lapsed between when he committed Diana's murder and the discovery of her body and has made excellent use of the confusion involving his disappearance.
The tube socks found around Ruth Cooper and Diana indicate to me, IMO, that both of these homicides were planned and not a heat of the moment type of killing. If Riemer was responsible for Diana's killing alone, I doubt he would be cool, calm, and collected enough after brutally stabbing her to "remember" the previous case and try to frame whoever murdered Harkins/Cooper. Especially if this was a crime of passion. And what exactly could Diana have done or said that would make him murder her within earshot of their two year old daughter? If Riemer was so overcome with rage because of something Diana did or said that he had to kill her, where exactly was Crystal this whole time? If Riemer is responsible, she would have had to have witnessed SOMETHING. Hopefully since she was only two years old at the time she doesn't remember now, but I still think that because Diana's murder was so brutal, Crystal would have to have heard/seen some sort of altercation.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:26 PM   #114
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The tube socks found around Ruth Cooper and Diana indicate to me, IMO, that both of these homicides were planned and not a heat of the moment type of killing. If Riemer was responsible for Diana's killing alone, I doubt he would be cool, calm, and collected enough after brutally stabbing her to "remember" the previous case and try to frame whoever murdered Harkins/Cooper. Especially if this was a crime of passion. And what exactly could Diana have done or said that would make him murder her within earshot of their two year old daughter? If Riemer was so overcome with rage because of something Diana did or said that he had to kill her, where exactly was Crystal this whole time? If Riemer is responsible, she would have had to have witnessed SOMETHING. Hopefully since she was only two years old at the time she doesn't remember now, but I still think that because Diana's murder was so brutal, Crystal would have to have heard/seen some sort of altercation.
The presence of the socks can be explained for similar reasons as Riemer's coat being left: When you are an outdoorsman, you take multiple sets of clothes in case something happens. People that forget that lesson can pay for forgetting it w/ their lives.

If Riemer did kill her who knows how much time passed after he did "compose" himself. And also, if Riemer killed Diana, he also killed two people before and had gotten away w/ it, so this wouldn't have been a "new" experience for him. I think after an hour or so, he would have been able to make the multiple decisions that he needed to successfully get rid of her body and get clear of the area.

Why is it necessary for Diana to have "done" something? Riemer was/is a violent man and possibly a sociopath;anything could have triggered this response. If Riemer did this, then he owns it, not the victims. And as far as the little girl goes...he'd beaten her mother in front her, so killing might be a leap...but probably not.
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:07 AM   #115
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The tube socks found around Ruth Cooper and Diana indicate to me, IMO, that both of these homicides were planned and not a heat of the moment type of killing. If Riemer was responsible for Diana's killing alone, I doubt he would be cool, calm, and collected enough after brutally stabbing her to "remember" the previous case and try to frame whoever murdered Harkins/Cooper. Especially if this was a crime of passion. And what exactly could Diana have done or said that would make him murder her within earshot of their two year old daughter? If Riemer was so overcome with rage because of something Diana did or said that he had to kill her, where exactly was Crystal this whole time? If Riemer is responsible, she would have had to have witnessed SOMETHING. Hopefully since she was only two years old at the time she doesn't remember now, but I still think that because Diana's murder was so brutal, Crystal would have to have heard/seen some sort of altercation.
I just can't understand how you plan out a homicide when you have no idea your victims will be there. Whoever killed Cooper had no clue she would be camping in the woods and the same goes for Diana so how could it be planned
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:44 PM   #116
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Why is it necessary for Diana to have "done" something? Riemer was/is a violent man and possibly a sociopath;anything could have triggered this response. If Riemer did this, then he owns it, not the victims. And as far as the little girl goes...he'd beaten her mother in front her, so killing might be a leap...but probably not.
I really hope your not implying that I blame Diana for her own murder. That's pretty ignorant of you, if you are. Riemer was by all accounts a violent man, but my whole point was what exactly would have set him off to kill Diana in front of their two year old child? Murder is a giant leap from spousal abuse. Diana took him back shortly before their little trip. Riemer obviously had every reason to be somewhat grateful to the fact that she took him back. And they were going out searching for a Christmas tree with their daughter. That tells me that Riemer did not intentionally go out to kill Diana on that day. So Riemer, being an outdoorsman, should have several pairs of clothes on his person. So what? Ruth Cooper was shot to death, why tie a sock around her neck? Stephen Harkins was shot as well, why not tie a sock around his neck too? What is the whole point of this sock tying schtick? It seems to be a calling card of a serial killer, it's just we cannot say for certain if Riemer is that killer.

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I just can't understand how you plan out a homicide when you have no idea your victims will be there. Whoever killed Cooper had no clue she would be camping in the woods and the same goes for Diana so how could it be planned
I think you're misinterpreting what I was saying. When I say that someone planned these deaths, I don't mean they were necessarily targeted. This killer just so happened to stumble on Cooper, Harkins, Diana and even possibly Riemer. They were just at the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.

On a side note, I just watched a partial bit in the UM segment about the domestic violence being discussed. In the re-enactment Diana says, "I have a two year old daughter.", and Riemer replies, "That's not my problem." which to me kind of implies that Riemer wasn't the father of Crystal.
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Old 01-01-2011, 01:06 PM   #117
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I really hope your not implying that I blame Diana for her own murder. That's pretty ignorant of you, if you are. Riemer was by all accounts a violent man, but my whole point was what exactly would have set him off to kill Diana in front of their two year old child? Murder is a giant leap from spousal abuse. Diana took him back shortly before their little trip. Riemer obviously had every reason to be somewhat grateful to the fact that she took him back. And they were going out searching for a Christmas tree with their daughter. That tells me that Riemer did not intentionally go out to kill Diana on that day. So Riemer, being an outdoorsman, should have several pairs of clothes on his person. So what? Ruth Cooper was shot to death, why tie a sock around her neck? Stephen Harkins was shot as well, why not tie a sock around his neck too? What is the whole point of this sock tying schtick? It seems to be a calling card of a serial killer, it's just we cannot say for certain if Riemer is that killer.



I think you're misinterpreting what I was saying. When I say that someone planned these deaths, I don't mean they were necessarily targeted. This killer just so happened to stumble on Cooper, Harkins, Diana and even possibly Riemer. They were just at the wrong place at the wrong time IMO.

On a side note, I just watched a partial bit in the UM segment about the domestic violence being discussed. In the re-enactment Diana says, "I have a two year old daughter.", and Riemer replies, "That's not my problem." which to me kind of implies that Riemer wasn't the father of Crystal.
Ya I heard that too but no where is it mentioned that he wasnt the father. Plus they said that they had been together since Diana was 16 so that would mean she had a child with someone else after her and Mike had gotten together. I dont know. If that wasnt his child I think that makes it all the easier to leave her behind like that.
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Old 01-01-2011, 02:10 PM   #118
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Ya I heard that too but no where is it mentioned that he wasnt the father. Plus they said that they had been together since Diana was 16 so that would mean she had a child with someone else after her and Mike had gotten together. I dont know. If that wasnt his child I think that makes it all the easier to leave her behind like that.
It's just an opinion, but I think Crystal is very much the image of Mike. I think he is her actual father.
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Old 01-01-2011, 05:48 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
It's just an opinion, but I think Crystal is very much the image of Mike. I think he is her actual father.
The segment refers to her being their daughter twice.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:49 PM   #120
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Here is a thought, if we suppose that Riemer is guilty of killing Diana, then he would almost have to be the killer of the other couple. To assume otherwise would get into a lot more speculation and while not impossible, I think it would get into the realm of unlikely.

I personally feel there is some possibility of there being an as yet unidentified killer guilty of killing at least four people. However, I did notice while watching the segment recently that Diana's friend says something along the lines of Mike telling her that he could kill her and get away with it.

Supposing this is accurate, one could speculate that either:

-Mike was a at least some what established serial killer that had at least killed one couple already.

Or:

-Mike had been planning this long enough and thorough enough that he already killed one couple simply as a diversion as he was already planning to kill Diana.

He could easily have known ahead of time -even several months earlier- that they would be going to look for a tree in a remote location. So he goes up while checking trap lines and comes across the two campers and offs them. What better cover story to have than a serial killer who separates his victims bodies? He could have invented the sock as a signature, and had some kind of plan in motion to get out of the area undetected.

Not saying that's how it went down, but its possible.
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