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Old 12-28-2010, 03:59 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
Well, you did just mention that his face was shown to a national audience. It's happened quite a number of times on UM. Someone recognizes a co-worker, a customer, a neighbor, or even a new spouse as an individual profiled on the program. As far as the picture quality is concerned, there have been cases in which viewers have recognized fugitives from only a few photographs. Recall James Donald King, for example. The photographs shown of him were years old and he was still captured. Maria Armstrong cropped her long dark hair and dyed it blonde, and was subsequently recognized nearly 2,000 miles away from Arizona. As they say, stranger things have happened.



Nah. I'm not of the opinion it's quite that simple. It's a lot of work to live on the lam. Consider new names, IDs, SSNs, stories to fabricate, physical appearances to alter. People to cooperate with your efforts. Plenty of people turn themselves in because it's simply just too tiring. That's not to say that it couldn't happen, of course, but I find it much less likely.



Unless Mike was taken somewhere else and killed there, for whatever reason.



It could mean literally anything given the very limited number of facts available to us in the segment. One could consider it supportive of the theory that Mike killed Diana, a serial killer killed them both, or a third known party perpetrated the crime(s?). I don't consider it very definitive.
Hmmm....

1) Riemer wasn't a very distinctive looking person. I probably saw three or four guys today that resembled him when I was out and I didn't really notice them. I think that a number of the people recognized years later may be more "distinctive" in appearance and they may have aroused suspicion by doing things that call attention to themselves (demanding that their picture not be taken,acting nervous in the presence of LE,etc).

2) Riemer was actually in a great position to lead a life on the run. He had extensive experience as an outdoorsman/trapper and he also worked as a roofer. Both positions are "cash only" jobs that almost never ask for ID or inquire too deeply into the backgrounds of workers. If Riemer could also speak Spanish, he could find work in a number of places.

To my mind, the only time that Riemer might run into "problems" is if he tried to purchase ammunition from a legitimate source (he would have to show ID and fill out paperwork) and or when/if he was questioned by a forest ranger/game warden/LE. As long as he didn't break any (or only minor) laws, and lived a low-key lifestyle, he wouldn't have attracted much attention.

Since the police didn't seem to put much effort into locating Riemer shortly after the murders occurred, it's unlikely that they would be able to make up for lost time, unless they had samples of DNA that they could match to Riemer if he was arrested, Riemer was arrested and confessed to the crime or somebody stumbles across a skull or other remains in the area around where Diana, I don't think that this case will be solved.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:15 PM   #77
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Here is just the evidence we have from the segment.........

Mike was the last known person to be with the murdered subject.

Mike had a history of violence against this person


Diane had gotten a restraining order against Mike because of Domestic violence.

Diane's body was found next to Mike's truck in an area Mike was very familiar with and had been trapping animals in since childhood.

No LE had any idea that a crime had been comitted in this case until a body was found three months later. There was no manhunt for Mike right off the bat because he was considered missing just like Diane until she was found.
Only those things are things that cannot be disputed.

However, the mere fact that Mike abused Diana really is only supportive of the theory that he killed her. It doesn't prove anything, really. Plenty of individuals abuse their partners physically, emotionally, and verbally, but don't murder them.




Quote:
Diane's mother states that Mike had told Diane he could kill her and get away with it.

Diane's best friend stated that Mike beat her up often.
That is hearsay, not fact. (It was her sister, not her best friend, by the way.)


Quote:
Mike's child was left in an area where she would be safe after her mother was brutally murdered..

Mike's remains where never found though the other people killed where left where the killer knew they would be discovered.
You and I have no idea what the rationale was for any of those things being done. That is speculation, not fact.


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What do we have that shows he was the victim of a random serial killer??
The same definitive, workable evidence that absolutely indicates he himself killed Diana: very little.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:22 PM   #78
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Hmmm....

1) Riemer wasn't a very distinctive looking person. I probably saw three or four guys today that resembled him when I was out and I didn't really notice them. I think that a number of the people recognized years later may be more "distinctive" in appearance and they may have aroused suspicion by doing things that call attention to themselves (demanding that their picture not be taken,acting nervous in the presence of LE,etc).
Well, that's subjective. What's distinctive to one person might not be to another.

Quote:
2) Riemer was actually in a great position to lead a life on the run. He had extensive experience as an outdoorsman/trapper and he also worked as a roofer. Both positions are "cash only" jobs that almost never ask for ID or inquire too deeply into the backgrounds of workers. If Riemer could also speak Spanish, he could find work in a number of places.
That's an excellent point.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:02 PM   #79
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If we are to assume that Riemer is guilty, still alive and on the run we have to consider a few things. He abandoned his daughter, when he had a very easy opportunity to take her with him. While this would seem to implicate him more if both he and Crystal were missing, he still would be in a precarious situation to take Crystal with him (in his truck) 30 miles away and drop her off in a crowded shopping center. Not to mention he had no guarantee that Crystal would keep quiet about her own father abandoning her. So let's say he did have ample time to get a head start on authorities and started a new life (possibly in Canada somewhere). And let's say he's lucky enough to live in an area where few people watch UM, so no one really knows about the story about Diana or the double homicide. He eventually would have accumulated friends, and established some sort of social life (he played guitar, was an outdoorsman, etc.). And let's also assume that he did beat Diana on a regular basis (even though the only actual account we have of this is one newspaper article that states that he rubbed her face in the carpet). In creating a new life, Riemer most likely would have dated, possibly even married. And based off his personality the odds that he would beat this woman would be very high, so would the odds that he would have run into trouble with some law enforcement agency over the years. And this would have most likely lead to the discovery that he really was Riemer, a POI in the Diana Robertson killing. All of this is hypothetical, but if we are to believe that Riemer is guilty and still alive, we have to also believe that he stopped murdering people (something a serial killer usually keeps doing until they get caught or die) and completely changed his personality. He's dead IMHO, guilty or innocent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cocytus
Since the police didn't seem to put much effort into locating Riemer shortly after the murders occurred, it's unlikely that they would be able to make up for lost time, unless they had samples of DNA that they could match to Riemer if he was arrested, Riemer was arrested and confessed to the crime or somebody stumbles across a skull or other remains in the area around where Diana, I don't think that this case will be solved.
I agree.

The restraining order is blown out of proportion, IMO. She withdrew it a couple of days after filing it, something a woman in fear for her life would not do.

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Old 12-28-2010, 05:22 PM   #80
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If we are to assume that Riemer is guilty and still alive, on the run we have to consider a few things. He abandoned his daughter, when he had a very easy opportunity to take her with him. While this would seem to implicate him more if both he and Crystal were missing, he still would be in a precarious situation to take Crystal with him (in his truck) 30 miles away and drop her off in a crowded shopping center. Not to mention he had no guarantee that Crystal would keep quiet about her own father abandoning her. So let's say he did have ample time to get a head start on authorities and started a new life (possibly in Canada somewhere). And let's say he's lucky enough to live in an area where few people watch UM, so no one really knows about the story about Diana or the double homicide. He eventually would have accumulated friends, and established some sort of social life (he played guitar, was an outdoorsman, etc.). And let's also assume that he did beat Diana on a regular basis (even though the only actual account we have of this is one newspaper article that states that he rubbed her face in the carpet). In creating a new life, Riemer most likely would have dated, possibly even married. And based off his personality the odds that he would beat this woman would be very high, so would the odds that he would have run into trouble with some law enforcement agency over the years. And this would have most likely lead to the discovery that he really was Riemer, a POI in the Diana Robertson killing. All of this is hypothetical, but if we are to believe that Riemer is guilty and still alive, that he stopped murdering people (something a serial killer usually keeps doing until they get caught or die) and completely changed his personality. He's dead IMHO, guilty or innocent.



I agree.

The restraining order is blown out of proportion, IMO. She withdrew it a couple of days after filing it, something a woman in fear for her life would not do.
While I have enjoyed UM for many years, I know a number of people that have never seen the show nor heard of it. I also know a number of people that have neither a TV, nor a computer making their seeing the Riemer segment almost an impossibility.And when UM was on the air (NBC/CBS), it really was never a "ratings giant" so it's very likely that a relatively small portion of the population saw the segment even when it aired in repeats.

If Riemer lived in a rural area or in a remote wooded area,it's likely that no one there has ever seen the program and wouldn't even know that he was wanted. And given the amount time that has passed, it's likely that Riemer looks significantly different than he did before so it may not be possible for people to recognize him know, even if they watched the segment.

No sure how a restraining order can be "blown out of proportion." Riemer was clearly a violent bully that was fortunate that he wasn't subjected to today's domestic violence laws as they would have mean that he would have had to surrender his firearms and couldn't have purchased any more. Plus, he would have faced jail time.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:14 PM   #81
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I just find it hard to believe he would have been able to get away away so clear cut. And to this day, NEVER been seen or at least spotted.
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:55 PM   #82
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I just find it hard to believe he would have been able to get away away so clear cut. And to this day, NEVER been seen or at least spotted.
Me too. And TheCars1986 brings up another great point about taking Crystal with him. He had the opportunity, and it would've been incredibly easy.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:06 PM   #83
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No sure how a restraining order can be "blown out of proportion."
Easy. People file restraining orders ALL THE TIME. How many times are they withdrawn? Tons. The fact that she filed a restraining order then becomes a moot point. Riemer was a bully, and by all accounts he did physically abuse Diana. But if it were as bad as Diana's family made it seem in the UM segment, why withdraw the restraining order at all? Diana's mother says that she heard from Diana that Riemer threatened to murder her, yet fails to report this immediately to the authorities? Pure heresay and speculation.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:28 PM   #84
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I just find it hard to believe he would have been able to get away away so clear cut. And to this day, NEVER been seen or at least spotted.
He may have been spotted THOUSANDS of times. However, since he isn't part of any nationwide search (other than the doenetwork and maybe Washington State police) it's doubtful that most (or the majority) of people that may have seen him even knew who he was/is.

If Riemer was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted or even the US Marshal's 15 Most Wanted, then there might be a chance that someone's memory might be sparked by an encounter. As it stands now, even though I have seen the segment maybe five times, I couldn't recognize Riemer if he walked past me on the street.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:32 PM   #85
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Me too. And TheCars1986 brings up another great point about taking Crystal with him. He had the opportunity, and it would've been incredibly easy.
Ummm...since Crystal was possibly not even potty-trained, it would have been exceptionally difficult for him to travel w/ her. He would have had to find daycare if he decided to live in a city or urbanized area and it would have been impossible for him to have a small child w/ him in a wooded area. Plus a single man w/ a small female child would have attracted a great deal more attention than a single man alone.

If Riemer was indeed the one that left the little girl at the store, then he made a decision that apparently has had little "downside" for him and probably greatly improved the chances that he would never be caught.

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Old 12-28-2010, 10:03 PM   #86
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Ummm...since Crystal was possibly not even potty-trained, it would have been exceptionally difficult for him to travel w/ her. He would have had to find daycare if he decided to live in a city or urbanized area and it would have been impossible for him to have a small child w/ him in a wooded area.

Plus a single man w/ a small female child would have attracted a great deal more attention than a single man alone.

If Riemer was indeed the one that left the little girl at the store, then he made a decision that apparently has had little "downside" for him and probably greatly improved the chances that he would never be caught.
That's precisely why I noted it. I feel it lends credence to the notion Mike isn't the one who took Crystal to K-Mart at all.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:24 AM   #87
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Only those things are things that cannot be disputed.

However, the mere fact that Mike abused Diana really is only supportive of the theory that he killed her. It doesn't prove anything, really. Plenty of individuals abuse their partners physically, emotionally, and verbally, but don't murder them.






That is hearsay, not fact. (It was her sister, not her best friend, by the way.)




You and I have no idea what the rationale was for any of those things being done. That is speculation, not fact.




The same definitive, workable evidence that absolutely indicates he himself killed Diana: very little.
Ok first off there is no proof of anything in this case right now. If there was "proof" then either Mike would be declared dead or be in jail. So you can through the word proof out the window.

What we do have is evidence to piece together and try to fill in the blanks which is what Im doing by posting the indisputable facts we have from the segment.

The mother and sisters statements are not hearsay by the way. Hearsay refers to statements made in a court of law that are inadmissable. The statement she makes can be considered evidence and I will gaurantee what she has said is in a police report. It is a fact that the mother and sister stated there was abuse and a threat to kill. Whether you choose to see them as credible is up to you.

Yes the fact that Mike was abusive is supportive of the theory that he killed her but is not a definative dead ringer. I agree with that.

I never said anything about what the rationale was behind Crystal being left at the store but isnt it obvious that whoever killed her mother didnt want to kill her but instead got her to a place shed be found? That is not speculation it is fact.

I think there is plenty of evidence he killed Diana and have listed what we know to be true. It seems everyone here that thinks Mike was a victim is simply using the fact that he never turned up alive to come to that conclusion. Well equally his body was never found. Plenty of other bodies where found in the area so why is one fact more compelling then the other? Is it not easier for a live person ( who is not even being looked for) to hide then a dead body??
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:29 AM   #88
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Easy. People file restraining orders ALL THE TIME. How many times are they withdrawn? Tons. The fact that she filed a restraining order then becomes a moot point. Riemer was a bully, and by all accounts he did physically abuse Diana. But if it were as bad as Diana's family made it seem in the UM segment, why withdraw the restraining order at all? Diana's mother says that she heard from Diana that Riemer threatened to murder her, yet fails to report this immediately to the authorities? Pure heresay and speculation.
I can honestly say I never had a restraining order on me. So I dont know how common it is. I also dont remember them ever saying she withdrew the order but only that they had gotten back together. Why withdraw it?? Com'n man get real you know that women can be abused and take back there abuser if they are weak minded enough. Happens all the time and you know it. Yoiu want the mother to go to the police because of what Diane told her?? Seriously? What would the cops even do? It isnt hearsay unless its introduced in court and Im not sure why you through the word " speculation" in there.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:38 AM   #89
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No. He said Mike immediately becomes a suspect. A world of difference.



1. Agencies are constantly in contact with other jurisdictions, and the notion of at least an area or regional APB certainly wasn't unheard of in 1985. There are plenty of ways Mike could've been found and brought back to Washington.

2. Again, I say: Plenty of people have established "new lives" and have been summarily caught, whether sooner or later. James Donald King (again), Margo Freshwater, Dennis Depue, Joe Sheppard, Joe Weldon Smith, Cheryl Holland, and Jim Burnside are all fine examples.
Okay I will go through the examples you gave when I get a chance but the one that stands out is Jim Burnside. You list him as a fine example of someone running, changing their name etc then being caught? Well lets look at just how different Burnside and Riemer are and maybe you will start to understand why Riemer has not been caught.

Burnside killed his wife right in front of witnesses. The police knew exactly what he had done and they new he was not the victim of any crime the moment it happened. Burnside was not only being pursued by local cops but also the FBI. Infact it was FBI agents that tracked him down and took him into custody in Alabama.

Riemer on the other hand goes missing with his girlfriend and is listed as a missing person (NOT A FUGITIVE) for three months. At no time was the FBI pursuing Riemer. That could explain why he didnt turn up. As far as other agencies getting overly involved with the search for Riemer, forget it. They have enough of of a caseload looking for people they know full well are alive to worry about someone who "might" be on the run. Riemer did not recieve national attention until three years later when the UM episode aired and the only recent picture of him shown was at a distance and you could hardly see his face.

So do you see the difference?
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:47 AM   #90
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I just find it hard to believe he would have been able to get away away so clear cut. And to this day, NEVER been seen or at least spotted.
The theory of how he was NEVER been seen or spotted has been explained several times on here if you read through.

A. For three months no one knew a crime had been comitted giving him ample time to establish another life

B. Mike had never been pursued as a fugitive but simply a missing person. No federal agency has made any effort to track him down.

C. It was three years before Riemer was introduced to a nationwide audience through the UM show and the only recent pic of him was at a distance and his face was barely distinguishable.

D. Mike was a skilled outdoorsman and could survive in any very secluded area as well Mike's trade was roofing so he could get a cash job anywhere without giving a social security card or a birth certificate.

If Mike wasnt killed that day and he indeed killed his gf then these reasons are why he has never been spotted. Its not so outlandish when you put it all in perspective
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