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Old 01-15-2013, 08:58 AM   #61
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Okay having watched the UM segment on this, I proceeded to read everything I could find and watch the Obstructed Justice doc. Based on the information I could gather from all sources, my best speculation of what happened is:

1. The teenage boys may not have whole heartily been out hunting that night. It is very likely that, hunting was only a pretense to get out of the house and go do what teenage boys do. We know that they have been smoking pot. It is possible that the boys could've known that something was up in the general vicinity, maybe through friends, or through prior experience. It's possible that they ignorantly went to check it out and see what was up, being curious boys with no idea of the serious consequences or what they were about to stumble upon. Remember, they don't have all the information we have now, so they couldn't have possibly known that they were dealing with a big drug smuggling operation extending all the way up to the CIA.

Another consideration is, depending on how the drops worked and whether the pick ups were made during and/or immediately after the drops, the boys could've stumbled onto an earlier drop, found the cache of drugs and/or money and took some, as a previous poster mentioned. Remember that they had no idea of what was really going on and as teenage boys, if you stumbled onto an unattended cache of drugs/money like that, it would've been very enticing to take some, if only just out of initial curiosity. If this was the case, then whoever was on the recieving end of the drops may have discovered that someone had taken something from the prior shipment, and gone out to investigate the next drop.

2. Regardless of the specific details above as to why the boys were out there, the accounts describe them being confronted on the scene, and then having fled to a payphone by a grocer. It was there that the cops confronted them, a scuffle occurred and they were possibly killed. As to why the boys didn't defend themselves, well, it was the cops. People trust the police not to kill them, and regardless of that, you'd have to be in dire straits to open fire on the police. It explains why they didn't fight back despite being armed with a rifle. If it was merely some strange men on the tracks that accosted them, there likely would've been more of a struggle, or the boys would've fled straight home. They were stopped, and very likely killed by the police.

3. The boys were placed on the tracks to be "killed" off that way so there would be no questions later. If they were buried, or dissappeared, people would've gone looking. It would've screwed up the entire drug smuggling operation and got people snooping around. It's likely that given the heat of the situation, making it seem like the boys were killed by a train was the best, quick solution. Unfortunately for the killers, they didn't see it turning out like this.

It's also interesting to note the potential connection between what went on here with the greater ongoings of the Mena drug smuggling and Iran contra affair at the time. If anyone has seen the segments on the Chuck Morgan case (the escrow businessman/agent who was "suicided" in the middle of the Arizona desert under a host of mysterious circumstances,) and Danny Casolaro (the freelance journalist who was "suicided" in a hotel room for investigating the Inslaw scandal, the Octopus conspiracy, etc,) I believe that all these cases touch on the same shadowy going ons at the time involving CIA black operations and the general Iran contra affair. Everyone involved seems to have been killed to cover up that giant operation, whether it was the drug smuggling aspect of it here, the money laundering aspect, or just to keep the entire thing secret.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:43 PM   #62
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Default Hodgen, OK track track deaths

I've seen a lot of questions come up about how the segment mentions a similar train track incident in Hodgen, OK in 1984. I was interested in this too, and thought I would post some articles I found about the Hodgen case. The 1985 article shows the investigation focused on the drug world. But the 1988 article, which also mentions the Ives and Henry deaths, seems to say that they concluded it was an accident. (and sorry, I can't post the articles as links because I don't have 5 posts yet If you want to read them, just add the http and copy/paste ).

Printed 7/20/1985: newsok.com/officials-to-reopen-investigation-in-deaths-of-2-men-run-over-by-train/article/2115432

Printed 5/25/88: newsok.com/death-probe-resurrects-1984-case/article/2226905

Excerpts from the 1985 article:

"There were a number of people at the time who said it was an accident," said LeFlore County District Attorney Ray Edelstein. "But people just don't go lie down on the tracks and go to sleep three miles from nowhere."

The bodies of Billy Don Hainline, 21, of Hodgens, and Dennis Decker, 26, of Heavener, were run over by a freight train on a stretch of the Kansas City Southern railroad 20 miles south of Poteau. "I think they were put there," said Sheriff Charles Hurley.

"We ruled the manner of death as unknown because the level (of alcohol) wasn't that high and then there was the fact they were lying together," said medical examiner investigator John Polmer.
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:34 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcazar
I've seen a lot of questions come up about how the segment mentions a similar train track incident in Hodgen, OK in 1984. I was interested in this too, and thought I would post some articles I found about the Hodgen case. The 1985 article shows the investigation focused on the drug world. But the 1988 article, which also mentions the Ives and Henry deaths, seems to say that they concluded it was an accident. (and sorry, I can't post the articles as links because I don't have 5 posts yet If you want to read them, just add the http and copy/paste ).

Printed 7/20/1985: newsok.com/officials-to-reopen-investigation-in-deaths-of-2-men-run-over-by-train/article/2115432

Printed 5/25/88: newsok.com/death-probe-resurrects-1984-case/article/2226905

Excerpts from the 1985 article:

"There were a number of people at the time who said it was an accident," said LeFlore County District Attorney Ray Edelstein. "But people just don't go lie down on the tracks and go to sleep three miles from nowhere."

The bodies of Billy Don Hainline, 21, of Hodgens, and Dennis Decker, 26, of Heavener, were run over by a freight train on a stretch of the Kansas City Southern railroad 20 miles south of Poteau. "I think they were put there," said Sheriff Charles Hurley.

"We ruled the manner of death as unknown because the level (of alcohol) wasn't that high and then there was the fact they were lying together," said medical examiner investigator John Polmer.
Thanks so much for digging up those elusive articles. I remember spending hours years ago trying to find them and not getting anywhere.

I'm not sure if I think these and Kevin and Don's cases are related. I kind of lean away from it actually.
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:11 AM   #64
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Wow Alcazar!! A BIG thank you for tracking down those articles!!! I didn't have any luck at all when I tried to find such so that's great that someone finally did after all this time! Yay! Someone give Alcazar a jellybean!

Um...hmm...curioser and curioser...
IDK but after reading the articles I would probably think that it's possible the deaths of Hainline and Decker also involved the drug cartels and I'd tend to agree with Sheriff Hurley who believed at the time that both young men were put on the train tracks and deliberately killed (just like Ives and Henry were later on). The article notes that: "A month after the bodies of Hainline and Decker were discovered, a clandestine methamphetamine laboratory was discovered 1 1/2 miles north of the tracks. 'That place is a haven for marijuana growers and crank labs,' Hurley said." It's also interesting that DA Edelstein alluded to a possible drug connection stating: "It is not uncommon in the drug industry for the people that don't play ball to be eliminated."

What I find a bit sus though is 1) in the 1985 articles it was reported that 1 of the men had a small amount of alcohol in his body and it's admitted by the medical examiner that "the level wasn't that high"; 2) but then in the 1988 article it's reported that alcohol was detected in both bodies and yet it was still lower than the legal limit for drunkeness; but still their deaths were ruled as "accidental"; and 3) Edelstein refused to discuss the evidence the grand jury had heard in the case.

Of course it's possible these young men simply fell asleep on the tracks, but then again it's possible Ives and Henry did too now isn't it...But, I don't buy it~

Plus to me the Ladner death too might be connected (or at the least have some possible relation to drugs) since it appears that cartels were operating heavily at the time in these neighboring states i.e. OK, AR, MS. Just my op though...
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:49 PM   #65
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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I just discovered a 47 minute video regarding the Henry/Ives case.

I'm only about 7 minutes into it, but so far, there are videos taken at the scene, video of Malak, Kevin Ives' mother, and other people involved. You have to look for 'Lost Archives: American Midnight' youknowwhere. It's hosted by Dean Stockwell.

Not sure yet, but it looks like they might get into some conspiracy theory type stuff, but I still thought it was worth sharing because of the video/comments regarding this case. I wonder if the footage included was taken from the video that the Ives family produced back in the 90s....
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:44 PM   #66
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It's well documented that the NSC and the office of Vice President Bush had contacts with men like Felix Rodriguez and Luis Posada Carriles. So did Eugene Hasenfaus, the man whose weapons-loaded plane went down in Nicaragua in '86. The connection to Arkansas is Barry Seal.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:13 PM   #67
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Does anyone know exactly how much marijuana was in the boys' systems? Or if it was active THC as opposed to the Marijuana Metabolite?

I'm just curious. I work with drug test results every day. I already have a hard time believing the boys got stoned and "fell asleep" on the railroad tracks. I would expect to see massive amounts of THC in their system if that was the case. Even though I've never heard a number, it sounds like the complete opposite is true. Which is why I'm curious if it was just the metabolite present. THAT would show that they smoked marijuana at some point but were not "actively" high at the time of death.

I need to read the book, but I agree with everyone else-- these boys were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:28 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci
Does anyone know exactly how much marijuana was in the boys' systems?
I'm reading the book again right now. I can't remember if the toxicology tests showed the exact amount or not. I do know that one independent ME who was hired by the boys' families only tested one of the boys and used Fahmy Malak's notes to write up his own tox results.

His explanation for doing that was something like some of Malak's numbers were close enough in his report, so the 2nd ME just assumed that Malak's info on the other boy was correct and didn't bother to perform the tests.

At least one other ME was hired and he was competent.

I can't remember if the info is in the book or in the TV show I mentioned above, but someone said that the boys smoked 1 to 2 joints at the most. IIRC this is the amount the parents believe to be correct. The boys had possibly bought $10 worth of pot that night. The officials found some of it but when Linda Ives (?? could have been the Henrys, not sure) received her son's clothing back from the police, there was another baggie of pot in the pocket.

Either the police totally overlooked the rest of that pot, or someone planted it to bolster Malak's pot overdose theory.

Last edited by TracyLynnS; 04-22-2014 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:54 PM   #69
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Not sure if this info from 2011 has been shared here. It's from the website of the woman who wrote The Boys on the Tracks. Evidently, nothing new ever came from this lead.

http://maraleveritt.com/2011/11/pare...en-cold-cases/

---

More info regarding the marijuana from the family's website:

Without any supporting evidence, Malak ruled that the boys had each smoked more than twenty marijuana cigarettes and, in a psychedelic stupor, had fallen asleep on the tracks. It was later learned that the state crime lab never even tested for the concentration of marijuana and, in fact, had used a test on the boys' blood which was designed to be used on urine. Outside experts were shocked at the absurd ruling.

http://www.idfiles.com/malakvid.htm
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:01 PM   #70
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I already have a hard time believing the boys got stoned and "fell asleep" on the railroad tracks.
IIRC, the autopsy performed by the competent ME proved the boys were murdered, and had never actually passed out on the tracks.

One boy had been stabbed and the other one had been beaten. Their lungs had a lot of blood in them. Malak even noticed it during the autopsy he performed, but he never explained that this would have to mean they were already dead by the time they were hit by the train.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:03 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyLynnS
IIRC, the autopsy performed by the competent ME proved the boys were murdered, and had never actually passed out on the tracks.

One boy had been stabbed and the other one had been beaten. Their lungs had a lot of blood in them. Malak even noticed it during the autopsy he performed, but he never explained that this would have to mean they were already dead by the time they were hit by the train.
Malak was definitely one of the scummiest people on UM, and everything new I read about him doesn't change that opinion.

It's disturbing hearing what he got away with.
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Old 04-23-2014, 08:32 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracyLynnS
IIRC, the autopsy performed by the competent ME proved the boys were murdered, and had never actually passed out on the tracks.

One boy had been stabbed and the other one had been beaten. Their lungs had a lot of blood in them. Malak even noticed it during the autopsy he performed, but he never explained that this would have to mean they were already dead by the time they were hit by the train.
I've read that book as well, and the second autopsy had determined the boys were murdered. It still did no good for the families though, as they continued to go through a rollercoaster of b.s., even after the FBI got involved.
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:12 AM   #73
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Malak was definitely one of the scummiest people on UM, and everything new I read about him doesn't change that opinion.

It's disturbing hearing what he got away with.
Agreed. Threatening to show the parents their sons' bodies in blown-up photos and insisting on it despite motions against it? This guy is a pathetic, cruel jerk. I really hope he's out of a job.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:07 AM   #74
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Agreed. Threatening to show the parents their sons' bodies in blown-up photos and insisting on it despite motions against it? This guy is a pathetic, cruel jerk. I really hope he's out of a job.

The last I heard about "Dr" Fahmy Malak was that he accepted a job in 2001, as the Chief Medical Examiner of Guam which would pay him 160.000$ a year. Bill Clinton may have helped in the appointment of "Dr" Fahmy Malak to become the Chief Medical Examiner of Guam as a reward for helping him cover up the murders of Kevin Ive and Don Henry, because Bill Clinton was in my oppion involved at some level and by extension I also believe that George HW Bush as well. I have always considered that The Clinton Crime Family was the Arkanas division of the Bush Crime Family. "Dr" Fahmey Malak was in my oppion an incompetent pyschopath who should have been put in prison for life for the horrible and terrible things he did while as the Chief Medical Examiner of Arkansas with reguards to the deaths of Kevin Ives, Don Henry and company. "Dr" Fahmey Malak belongs in prison with the likes of other criminal doctors like "Dr" Phillip Astin III (Doctor to late wrestlers Chris Benoit and Johnny Grunge) and "Dr" Conrad Murray (Doctor to late singer Michael Jackson). I don't believe that Fahmey Malak should be called "Dr" at all because he does not deserve to be called "Dr", I believe he should be called a "Quack".

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Old 04-27-2014, 06:35 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockworkhigh
I realize his father probably thought nothing of it but maybe a mention by his dad of "Hey why don't you stay in now, it's late" could have saved their lives.

It isn't negligent like Ruby's (the girl and guy who went through the ice) dad who knew full well the kids were driving their cars drunk but it is still something that could be prevented.
I understand your point of view however in the case of Ruby 19 and Arnold 20, I'm sure the parent knew that they could not ultimately stop them from driving as they were both adults. I stopped listening to my parents at 16 so I certainly would not have taken the slightest notice at 18,19 or 20. I bet the parents did try to talk them out of it but what could they do to stop them? Arnold seems like a large bloke I would of thought it would be near impossible to remove the keys from him and even if they phoned the police an accident could well of happened before the police pulled them over.

Back to the case in question, I also give view that Don's father would not have tried to talk them into coming in at 12.15 as Don would have most likely argued the fact that he wanted to go out. I'm always a little leaniant when my boys have friends over, letting them stay up later or hang out longer. Don probably didnt want the hassle and argument with 2 testosterone full boys. I suppose even if he said no to them they probably would have just snuck out and returned before he woke up.

Did you not do the same when you were a child? I used to stay in till 10.00 (that was the time I had to be home by) then deiced I wanted to go out arguing with my parents something rotten and sneaking out any ways. When your a kid you think your invincible.

In both cases blame should not be put on the actions of the parents and their actions questioned. What they did or didn't do did not result in the deaths of any the people in question.
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