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Old 03-15-2007, 05:49 AM   #106
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Haha, oh wow. Okay, talk about people trying to bust someone's balls over it because they cant find who did it.

Yes, I am sure the cops did check Rob's car and I am sure they went through his story with a finetooth comb. Do you really think they would take anything he said just on face value alone? I sure dont.

How could Rob strip the car down on a street? It doesnt make sense. I am sure the cops checked out his car to make sure that he did in fact throw out the transmission, it would be immediately suspect for him to claim as such so I am sure they checked it thoroughly to make sure he was telling the truth.

He could have heard the killer say "I didnt need to use the phone anyway." I certainly wouldnt say he didnt hear it. Neither I nor you heard what was said. Personally I think what is more Hollywoodish is someone thinking that some 20 year old kid would have the pre meditation in him to plan to knock off his girlfriend he seemingly loved and yet plan this whole transmission throw out thing yet be able to fool the cops and pretty much everyone else. I mean come on.

Also it is uuite possible that no one saw nor heard the car chase. Who knows if the truck was loud or not? It could have been in perfect condition with a new muffler and therefore not loud. Plus this happened on a week night late at night, after 11 at night, in the early 90's in a town with fewer than 10 thousand people. Also who said it wasnt noticed? That is how the reneactment portrayed it, doesnt mean that is exactly how it went down. Trust me, on a week night these towns would be dead at that time of night, so it isnt surprising that there wasnt a crowd of people standing around outside saying "gee there is a loud truck and a station wagon chasing behind."

If Angie was pregnant still no motive. Honestly, Rob hardly seems the type to knock off his girlfriend because she was pregnant. However it isnt even known if this was the case, it wasnt mentioned in the UM segment, not to say it wasnt going on but there seems to be back and forth theories on whether or not she was really pregnant. Also I think Rob was older than 18. I dont know, I just dont think it was a motive.

Also there were people that came forward that claimed to have saw the truck before the abduction happened. 2nd, as I mentioned earlier this was a town of less than 10 thousand people on a weeknight late at night in the early 90's it was dead and there were few if any people out at that time of night. Not at all uncommon.

Rob I can say fairly surely would not be for sure convicted if brought to trial on this even now. For you to say he would be is just arrogant.

Also Rob didnt make it to the phone booth before Angie was abducted. He heard her scream he ran to his car raced downtown and saw the guy in the truck coming from the opposite direction blocks from the phone booth. I am sure the cops did time all this stuff out and I am sure it was possible, again Clinton is a small town not a booming metropolis. Also it wasnt Rob's parents who said it, they werent home, he was baby sitting his little brother after the BBQ, his little brother was the one who gave him the alibi.

Also if it was him and some friend doing this crap, they are teenagers and one of them would break down and confess, I think you try to build up Rob as this pre mediating psycho path that is just completely capable of pulling off a pre meditated murder when I think that is far from the case. He wouldnt have had time to dispose of the body in a place where it would never be found, even if your theory was true the body would have been found he simply wouldnt have had the time to dispose of it in a place where it wouldnt be.

You act like it is just impossible for this story to be true when in fact it really isnt. First off it isnt the perfect story as you claim. 2nd off he didnt make it to the phone booth, he saw the killer heading out of town in the truck and he came across him and chased after him. He was going to go after him and he threw his car into reverse without coming to a stop first which damaged his tranmission. This isnt some out of the woods impossible theory, it happens all the time to people who are driving automatic transmissions.

Maybe if you would have had all the details right instead of picking and choosing them your friend might have been able to accurately depict whether or not Rob was telling the truth.
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:26 AM   #107
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I'm amazed at all the skepticism late in this thread.

Here's a section of one of the articles:

"Hammond's best friend, Kyla Engeman, said she and Hammond had been cruising the town square when they split up about 11:15 p.m."

Okay, and we know that Rob was given a lift to the police station at midnight. So that gives him a full 45 minutes to find and kill Angela, dispose of her body so well that it's never found, leave her car at the pay phone, go home and trick his brother with the phony phone call from Angela, presumably clean up and change clothes, stage the blown transmission, and contact authorities before he's taken to the station.

And somehow he also managed to do it during a night when two people would claim they saw a truck and person in it who matched the description Rob gave. Oh wait, I suppose during his scampering around he saw that truck and quickly decided the guy wasn't from the area and would never be located, so let's use him as the perpetrator.

If Rob managed all that, the same question can be used in reverse, i.e., why didn't anyone in town see any of it?
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:28 AM   #108
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I remember that now. Rob never made it to the booth, but passed them on the road. You're right, I remember now. However, this makes his story even more suspect. Was this the only route away from the phone booth? If not, then chances are that they probably wouldn't pass each other.

Rob has to be the prime suspect. Sure, its possible that she really was abducted by some stranger, but we will never know for sure until her body is found.

I don't remember hearing anyone in the segment say that there were people who had seen the truck in that town in the days prior. Is this really true? If so, then it makes his story more credible. But, as far as I am concerned, there is more against him than for him.

I live in a small town too. Born and raised in a town with about 10,000 people in it (in mid 90's). As a teen, we used to be mischevious and drag race etc... You would be surprised how many people reported us, even on these "back roads" where no one was supposed to be awake, much less looking.

Again, a stranger may be involved here, but there is ZERO evidence of it. The only evidence we have is a fantastic story by her BF, who was probably estranged from her in the first place. Until otherwise proven, the working hypothesis should be that he is the prime suspect (unless there have been updates on the case clearing him).
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:40 AM   #109
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Quote:
Okay, and we know that Rob was given a lift to the police station at midnight. So that gives him a full 45 minutes to find and kill Angela, dispose of her body so well that it's never found, leave her car at the pay phone, go home and trick his brother with the phony phone call from Angela, presumably clean up and change clothes, stage the blown transmission, and contact authorities before he's taken to the station.
Her car was ALREADY at the pay phone, so scratch him doing anything with her car. He was ALREADY at home when Angela called. This is confirmed by his brother. I am saying he may have killed her AFTER the phone conversation. So scratch that.

This leaves him 45 minutes to kill her, dispose of her, change clothes, call cops. His transmission may have already been blown (and he used it as a story to convince them).

Yes, I admit it is a bit odd that her body was never found since, presumably, he would have to take quite a bit of time to find such a location to dispose of it. Also, there was, I assume, no blood or any other physical evidence found in his car.

The thing I want to be clear on is this: were there any witnesses in any form or fashion? Were there any witnesses to the truck being in that town and acting suspciously? Most importantly, did anyone witness that truck driving around that very night? If a man really abducted her, then I assume he would have seen her and her friend cruising around and probably followed them around. I find it unlikely that this man just "happened" upon Angela at the booth. I think he saw her and her GF cruising around. Did Angela's friend remember the truck?

If you can show me witnesses of that, then I may come around. I didn't realize the window of time was so small for Rob. This seems to be on his side.
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Old 03-15-2007, 07:45 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiussat
Her car was ALREADY at the pay phone, so scratch him doing anything with her car. He was ALREADY at home when Angela called. This is confirmed by his brother. I am saying he may have killed her AFTER the phone conversation. So scratch that.

This leaves him 45 minutes to kill her, dispose of her, change clothes, call cops. His transmission may have already been blown (and he used it as a story to convince them).

Yes, I admit it is a bit odd that her body was never found since, presumably, he would have to take quite a bit of time to find such a location to dispose of it. Also, there was, I assume, no blood or any other physical evidence found in his car.

The thing I want to be clear on is this: were there any witnesses in any form or fashion? Were there any witnesses to the truck being in that town and acting suspciously? Most importantly, did anyone witness that truck driving around that very night? If a man really abducted her, then I assume he would have seen her and her friend cruising around and probably followed them around. I find it unlikely that this man just "happened" upon Angela at the booth. I think he saw her and her GF cruising around. Did Angela's friend remember the truck?

If you can show me witnesses of that, then I may come around. I didn't realize the window of time was so small for Rob. This seems to be on his side.
You should really read through the thread we have already established a timeline of events that I think proves Rob is telling the truth. I realize you think its odd that there are no witnesses except Rob, you must consider though there are no witnesses to the abductions of Trudy Darby, Cheryl Kenney or the three girls in Springfield. So you see its no so uncommon to not have witnesses in an abduction case. Keep in mind that Rob was investigated by the Clinton Police, the Henry County Sheriffs and the FBI, none of them ever named him as a suspect.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:29 AM   #111
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I grew up in Clinton. I just checked the only Clinton High School yearbook I have here at my house, and she's not in it, though she would be based on her age, so she may have gone to Montrose High.

I personally don't know of anyone who believes Rob is guilty. You have to consider that Clinton is a small town, so not many people are out on a weeknight. At the same time, Henry County is an area of many small towns and rural areas. There are tons of back roads for someone to take and never be seen by the police. Heck, we all managed to "party" every weekend night on rural roads when I was in high school, not even pulled off into a field, just simply parked cars on a rural road and did what teenagers do and never were caught--no one ever drove by past a certain time. On a week night, it woud be quite easy to drive down a maze of rural roads and hide yourself and your truck.

Also, though small, Clinton is the county seat and draws people in for shopping, entertainment (such as it is), etc, from all the smaller towns in the area. Additionally, it is close to Truman Lake, a major destination for fishermen, boaters, etc. There are lots of people going through at any given time. We have several fast food restaurants because of the "lake traffic" as everyone refers to it. You certainly don't "know everyone" and a stranger in a dirty green truck would likely attract no attention at all. There are always men driving dirty old trucks around Clinton, and many of the drivers are not so clean appearing themselves, to put it politely. I am pretty sure this man/truck would not be noticed, but would simply blend in. The fact that the truck was not seen by anyone means nothing to me. The phone booth, though right at an intersection, was in a dark, deserted (at that time of night) parking lot, one that if you were driving by then, you would have no reason to look over at. I can easily believe all this happened without anyone noticing.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:41 AM   #112
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I'm still stuck on the earlier posts regarding what Awsi found on the web regarding Worley. The junior prosecutor in me wants to point out several flaws in this "description" of Worley:

1. Worley "didn't have a choice" in the matter-- Okay, whatever. You always have a choice. You don't like what's going on in the car, you GET OUT OF THE CAR. Yeah, perhaps McDuff had a gun... but by the time that they abducted Colleen Reed, Worley KNEW it was going to happen. He had plenty of time to get out of the car before then. The ONLY person who didn't have a choice in the matter was the victim, Colleen Reed.

2. "McDuff made Alva Hank get out and drive"-- If he was so innocent in the whole matter and didn't want to hurt a woman, do you get in the car and drive? No. YOU SAY NO. YOU WALK AWAY. You don't comply, and you certainly DON'T stop and switch drivers so you can BOTH have your way with Colleen Reed.

3. Worley was an unwilling accomplice. "He was forced. He was threatened."-- Okay. Then why did he help hold Colleen Reed down and rape her repeatedly? Why did he not just stand by, but ASSIST in the crime? His actions don't match this description.

4. "My uncle and friend ALVA HANK WORLEY IS INNOCENT! He has paid fully for just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. And being another VICTIM of Kenneth Allen McDuff."-- "Victim" implies that something bad must have happened to Worley. The only "bad" thing that I see is that he was sent to prison and is being denied parole. He was sent to prison because he participated in the kidnapping, rape, and murder of Colleen Reed. I don't care if he was a good person both before and after the crime. Your life can change forever because of ONE. BAD. DECISION. Worley did not make ONE bad decision that night. He made several. I'm not saying that he's a monster, either, but I am stressing that he is a person who needs to be held accountable for his mistakes.

Sorry for the rant. People who break the law and then insist that the law shouldn't apply to them infuriate me.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:52 PM   #113
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Quote:
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If Angela was indeed pregnant, you have your motive. Rob was only 18 and may have freaked about the news.
I don't know if I agree with that. Rob and Angela got engaged in early January 1991 - a full 3 months before she was kidnapped. He was looking forward to a career in the military where I'm sure he would be able to support Angela and the baby.
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:54 PM   #114
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I am starting to come around to Rob's side on this. I have not seen the segment in a year or two and some of the details I had forgotten. For example, I never knew that he only had 45 minutes between the dissapearance and when he was taken to the police station. This is very important, obviously.

I still maintain, though, that the evidence is lacking for any other suspect.
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Old 03-15-2007, 07:37 PM   #115
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like i said before I always found this story as made up when I saw it on lifetime, but no one knows what actually happened obviously. Then when I came on here and found out his girlfriend was pregnant, that made me think even more against Rob. Even with 45 minutes, I'm sure it could be done. He could have already had a "place" in mind to kill her and hide her body that maybe wouldn't be found, and that place wouldn't have to be far away. This case goes both ways, althought with many cases, the truth ends up being something I never would even guess, so he very well could have been involved.
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:30 PM   #116
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everyone in the family knew Angie was pregnant. Her mother was excited at the prospect of being a grandmother. As for Rob, Marsha never suspected him. They were all at the BBQ that night, no family friction. Also Angie graduated from Montrose.

Last edited by shamac; 03-18-2007 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:21 AM   #117
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Was Rob Shafer a senior in high school when this happened or was he out of school???? It said he was 18 at the time and it was in April
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:09 PM   #118
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What ever happened to Rob? Someone else said he lives in Lamar, Missouri. Did he eventually marry or have children? Just curious.
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:34 PM   #119
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What ever happened to Rob? Someone else said he lives in Lamar, Missouri. Did he eventually marry or have children? Just curious.
According to Peoplefinder.com, Rob has two cities listed as his residence. Lamar, Missouri. It says he now lives in Butler, Missouri which is about 57 miles away according to yahoo maps.

Last edited by dynoguy88; 03-19-2007 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:25 PM   #120
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Nice sleuthing, Dynoguy! I always wondered what happened to Rob myself. I assumed he married but I was just curious.
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