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Old 11-30-2017, 09:22 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by QTMcWhiskers
She was cheated on by Desi and that probably, as you put it, "snapped her girdle" more. Seeing AITF's political nature and nonstandard relationships, especially the hippie friends one, she would understandably be uppity to some extent.

I doubt she continued to watch after her saying her piece.

It's just a tv show, though.
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but WHY he would cheat on such an attractive woman I'll never understand; Lucy was still beautiful at 60....and fantastic legs. She was a chorus girl and IMO could put Betty Grable's to shame. She was also a superb businesswoman-I wished I could have met her, I really liked her a lot.

(Just my 2 cents, but Desi was not all that.)
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:36 AM   #32
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I wonder what Lucille Ball thought about Norman Lear’s other shows like Sanford and Son, Maude, Good Times, and The Jeffersons.
In one of the Lucy books I own, it states "She found Maude and Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman perverse and self-indulgent. MASH and The Mary Tyler Moore Show were more to her liking". There was no mention of Sanford or Good Times.
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:37 AM   #33
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All in the Family was absolutely anti-American. I didn't necessarily see that when I was watching it growing up but just as with MASH, anyone that was a loyal American was portrayed as a moron. Mike, was portrayed as the good educated smart one, was always out protesting against America.
Totally disagree. If anything, that we could have a show like AITF on the air show's what a great country we are. Imagine all the dictatorships where freedom of viewpoints would never be tolerated. Also, the show wasn't disdainful of America; more than anything else it helped ALL of us see our warts and that both extremes (liberal and ultra-conservative) are not without shortcomings. The show made us think.

And Mike didn't come across as all that smart anyways. He was smug and hypocritical; and when push came to shove, he was just as close-minded as Archie, maybe even more so. At least Archie was real.

There were a couple of eps where Mike really comes across as a buffoon. Two examples come quickly to mind: in the ep where the burglars break in, they treat Mike's viewpoints just as contemptuously as Archie's. Also the ep where they play that board game, and when everyone starts critiquing Michael, he throws the game off the table. Real mature -Mike can dish it out but can't take it.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:47 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by OH Nuts!

There were a couple of eps where Mike really comes across as a buffoon. Two examples come quickly to mind: in the ep where the burglars break in, they treat Mike's viewpoints just as contemptuously as Archie's. Also the ep where they play that board game, and when everyone starts critiquing Michael, he throws the game off the table. Real mature -Mike can dish it out but can't take it.
The problem is revealed by the episodes you pick. Asked to pick 3 episodes where Mike was portrayed negatively, nearly everyone who watched the show would include the board game episode. Archie was portrayed that negatively on almost a weekly basis. Propagandists know that sometimes they have to briefly criticize their own side, just so they can claim evenhandedness.

Mike is criticized in the burglar episode, but by an even more leftist point of view than he subscribes to. It's a forerunner of our current diversity argument that people of the "dominant culture" don't really have a say as to the complaints of minorities, and can't criticize them.

I went through probably 15 years of drifting from a liberal to a conservative. As a liberal, I many times saw my thoughts portrayed on political shows on TV. None of those political shows - including All in the Family, MASH, Maude, Family Ties, Designing Women, Murphy Brown - ever presented an argument that I would make as a conservative.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:58 PM   #35
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I do like BOTH Shows "I Love Lucy" and "All in the Family", but Ball's stardom was fadin' fast at the time! When AITF was on, she was in "Mame"! A Lot of people HATED the film, but I like it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8eCAhAo12o
Incidentally, Jane Connell (with whom Lucy worked with on MAME), played Sybil Gooley on an episode of ALL IN THE FAMILY a few years later.

I found MAME to be pretty decent (albeit a very long film). Lucy played a character unlike any character she had ever played, helping a woman who was pregnant and unmarried. So, for Lucy, that was a bit of a groundbreaking move in her career. No one ever seems to mention that.

So I wonder if Lucy actually warmed up to ALL IN THE FAMILY. Any good actor/actress knows that you need to sit with a character long enough to understand who they are. Her initial opinion seems to be taken at face value of the character of Archie Bunker. I would hope she was able to see past that and understand what they were doing if she invested some time in watching it regularly. It's always a shame to miss out on something that could add some laughter to your life.
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Old 12-01-2017, 12:08 AM   #36
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The problem is revealed by the episodes you pick. Asked to pick 3 episodes where Mike was portrayed negatively, nearly everyone who watched the show would include the board game episode. Archie was portrayed that negatively on almost a weekly basis. Propagandists know that sometimes they have to briefly criticize their own side, just so they can claim evenhandedness.

Mike is criticized in the burglar episode, but by an even more leftist point of view than he subscribes to. It's a forerunner of our current diversity argument that people of the "dominant culture" don't really have a say as to the complaints of minorities, and can't criticize them.

I went through probably 15 years of drifting from a liberal to a conservative. As a liberal, I many times saw my thoughts portrayed on political shows on TV. None of those political shows - including All in the Family, MASH, Maude, Family Ties, Designing Women, Murphy Brown - ever presented an argument that I would make as a conservative.
There are of course many more episodes where Mike comes as smug, pompous, hypocritical and condescending. When Gloria makes the first move he throws a little hissy fit that it's the man who should make the first move. But just in general, he really wasn't portrayed as this Sir Gallahad.

But I do see your point about conservatives on other shows--although I do think Alex Keaton came off rather well.
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Old 12-01-2017, 05:04 AM   #37
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I love All in the family!!!!
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Old 12-01-2017, 08:47 AM   #38
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I love All in the family!!!!
Me too! And I'm glad I got to see it when it first aired-I was a teenager back then.

The show was mind-blowing, at least 25 years ahead of it's time. It still holds strong -areal classic.

I know over the years I've seen every episode twice. I caught some eps during Antenna's Thanksgiving marathon. It was nice re-visiting it and it's nice to know I can any time as I have the first five seasons.
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Old 12-01-2017, 11:44 PM   #39
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Lucy should have produced All in the Family. They could have done episodes where Edith meets some past-their-prime celebrity (Bob Cummings!), and where the family must do some sort of musical number.
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Old 12-02-2017, 02:26 AM   #40
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Well, Sammy Davis Jr. did visit.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:18 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OH Nuts!
There are of course many more episodes where Mike comes as smug, pompous, hypocritical and condescending. When Gloria makes the first move he throws a little hissy fit that it's the man who should make the first move. But just in general, he really wasn't portrayed as this Sir Gallahad.

But I do see your point about conservatives on other shows--although I do think Alex Keaton came off rather well.
AITF and FT were IMO the only shows where politics worked well within the sitcom.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:18 PM   #42
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I think Lucy was all about the comedy, she enjoyed making people laugh. So it makes sense if she disliked All In The Family and other Norman Lear sitcoms which have their fair share of arguing, conflict and drama along with the comedy.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by OH Nuts!
Totally disagree. If anything, that we could have a show like AITF on the air show's what a great country we are. Imagine all the dictatorships where freedom of viewpoints would never be tolerated. Also, the show wasn't disdainful of America; more than anything else it helped ALL of us see our warts and that both extremes (liberal and ultra-conservative) are not without shortcomings. The show made us think.

And Mike didn't come across as all that smart anyways. He was smug and hypocritical; and when push came to shove, he was just as close-minded as Archie, maybe even more so. At least Archie was real.

There were a couple of eps where Mike really comes across as a buffoon. Two examples come quickly to mind: in the ep where the burglars break in, they treat Mike's viewpoints just as contemptuously as Archie's. Also the ep where they play that board game, and when everyone starts critiquing Michael, he throws the game off the table. Real mature -Mike can dish it out but can't take it.
You're ignoring the fact that just like virtually every other program on TV, everyone associated with All in the Family was a radical liberal. Obviously Norman Lear. Plus Carol O'Connor, Jean Stapleton and Rob Reiner. Virtually every episode was a diatribe against conservative values. Archie was never allowed to win an argument. The episodes you picked where Mike looks bad, with the board game and burglars, Mike was shown up by blacks, not Archie.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babalu
You're ignoring the fact that just like virtually every other program on TV, everyone associated with All in the Family was a radical liberal. Obviously Norman Lear. Plus Carol O'Connor, Jean Stapleton and Rob Reiner. Virtually every episode was a diatribe against conservative values. Archie was never allowed to win an argument. The episodes you picked where Mike looks bad, with the board game and burglars, Mike was shown up by blacks, not Archie.
Yes, there may have been a lot of liberals associated with the show, however the fact that Michael was "shown up" at all, shows that the show wasn't totally biased. The key word being TOTALLY.

However, you have made me reflect back on TV in the 70s, andto be frank, I can't think of many TV characters who are portrayed as intelligent conservatives except maybe for Arthur Harmon on Maude. That is a shame, as an intelligent conservative would have been an excellent character. The idea that you can't be conservative and brilliant is, of course, utter nonsense - and is easily disproved in real life.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:13 AM   #45
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The entertainment industry is mostly liberal. As are most people who go into journalism or communications. I think it’s unfortunate there isn’t more diversity, but it is what it is.

That said, I think AITF is pro-American. Here is a family that is sharply divided from a political standpoint. But they love each other and stick together when it counts. And they learn each other’s point of view - I think of “Games Bunkers Play” and “Two’s a Crowd” as prime examples of this. Even Archie softens over time - he seems to joke around with Louise Jefferson toward the end of her run, and sticks up for the Stivics when they are targeted by the KKK.
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