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Old 08-02-2009, 10:51 PM   #46
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I know you use cole puffinberger as an example. I like to use the larry gibson example for my opinions.

My problem with revenge is this. Why not leave a body to send a message. WHy target her? Lets say they didn't kill her...why keep her? Thye let cole puffinberger back.

Also, there was no mention of drugs in the UM broadcast. Although I am pretty sure the police know whats up.

If it was random selection for sex slave...like you said still very very far off.

Sighting should not be disregarded at all. But from what we've heard there's nothing very concrete about it or even could even indicate it was even her in trouble. We're not discounting it. Just because one is narrowing in on a likely scenario you have to look at concrete and more plausible things.

As far as the phone call goes, the call was not traced because of lack of time as mentioned in UM clip. So it wasn't from albequeque or at least confirmed to be. That I know for sure.

I think mistaken abduction is plausible. Uncle joe is supposedly a common name. This is something I totally wouldn't dismiss and could be a possibility.

THe thing that gets me is why a child would not come out with a story until 5 years later. That is the confusing part. I work with children. This behavior is odd considering its a her sister. Kids are not stupid. If a sibling is taken in the middle of the night you would think the mother would be told. Nothing about that story holds up at all. That is what got me suspecting the mother. The story does not hold up.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:44 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanekim
I know you use cole puffinberger as an example. I like to use the larry gibson example for my opinions.

THe thing that gets me is why a child would not come out with a story until 5 years later. That is the confusing part. I work with children. This behavior is odd considering its a her sister. Kids are not stupid. If a sibling is taken in the middle of the night you would think the mother would be told. Nothing about that story holds up at all. That is what got me suspecting the mother. The story does not hold up.
I don't think Larry Gibson's case comes close to this but we can agree to disagree on that. I'm on the fence on that one...I truly can't make an opinion either way. I can't say the Puffinberger case resembles this either, but my point in using it was to show that it can be possibly something similar. I've also already addressed why she wasn't possibly given back in earlier posts.

You are correct that the call was never confirmed from Albuquerque. My previous points about it still stand.

In the Elizabeth Smart case, it took a while for her sister to come forward. Granted not 5 years and not upon questioning by law enforcement, IIRC she told her parents first. In this case, the answer to your question is answered in the segment. LE apparently feels this is credible. As I've previously stated, fear can do a lot of things to a small child. Intimidation?

She willingly appeared to give the information and if her mom was directly involved, I find it more likely that she would have volunteered the info then, without any family present, instead of making up a story to cover for mom 5 years later. If she had given the story earlier...then the argument could be made that perhaps she was coached to say this by mom, since a younger child is easier to coach. But 5 years later, when she was 10? Doesn't quite make sense. In the Gibson case the daughter herself stated she saw the dad kill Thomas..though I've wondered if it was from coaching from the mom or if she actually saw it. Regardless, she in a sense ratted him out. Wendy did not do this with her mom.

In a lot of the inner cities and poor towns, there is the "don't snitch" "rule" of sorts. Many cases could be solved if someone would just talk...but they are in fear of their lives so they don't talk, no matter how much I may not agree with that. My friend's husband is one of these. At a young age...not very young but not very old either (I don't remember the exact age anymore), he witnessed his friend die in a shooting. He saw who did it, but never told.....so sadly his friend's murder has not been solved. Today at the age of 30 he STILL refuses to name names, citing that he's too afraid. This drives me nuts! His thinking is weird though...I can't claim to understand it. So this is why I don't think it's strange that 5 years later she willingly comes out with this confession.

Trauma hits different children different ways, and upbringing and physical and emotional makeup can make a difference. Victims of sexual abuse or a rape can wait many many years before telling someone about what they've experienced, and while witnessing a kidnapping and being a victim of SA are two very different things of course, my point is it shouldn't be considered so strange that a long period of time passes before a confession of sorts is made after someone experiences a trauma, especially at a young age.. Not having been in this situation myself I cannot think of exactly how I would act in that situation that she was in at her age...I don't think anyone really can unless they've been through it and can understand the thinking. I don't know. I still can't believe so much time has gone by and it's essentially a cold cold case.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:58 AM   #48
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Quote:
My problem with revenge is this. Why not leave a body to send a message. WHy target her? Lets say they didn't kill her...why keep her? Thye let cole puffinberger back.
The problem with simply beating up someone to get paid on a debt is that ultimatly the victim will get used to the beatings and see that as an acceptable (if painful) alternative to having to give up the money. If you kill the victim than there is no way for you to get your money back. So what a lot of criminals do is that they threaten family members, take property or kidnap family members as a means of coercing payment.

As to why no body, If the Cayedito's did not pay them?

A young girl like Antoinette may have a lot of value as a prostitute or sexual slave. They may have decided to get their money back that way.
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:27 PM   #49
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People are making an issue of the mother's body language saying she is withholding information. She may have been ordered by police to not say certain things for fear of jeopardizing the investigation. It is not uncommon for police to keep certain tidbits of info from the general public for fear that it will compromise their investigative efforts.
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Old 08-10-2009, 03:28 AM   #50
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Interesting discussion here, I never thought of the mom being involved (personally I don't think she had anything directly to do with it), but you're right that some parts of the story seem far fetched - although not impossible.

Does anyone think the sighting 5 years later (when she would be 14) at the restaurant was her? That would be quite a long time to have kept her alive, and surely if she made the 911 call four years earlier, she probably would've made escape attempts inbetween that time too. Beings that it was in public, couldn't she have said she had to go to the bathroom for instance, and gotten help from someone who worked there (like Theresa Stamper getting away from Paul)? Even making a scene right there, more than likely the kidnappers wouldn't do anything right then, and she would've been much safer.

People can change alot, especially going from childhood to early teens, so even if the 14 year old kinda looked like her, it may or may not have been (or it could've been another girl in a desperate situation, but just not Antonette).

I do think the 911 call really was her (unfortunately they couldn't trace calls as easily back then ), but I wonder if she was somehow "punished" for trying to escape. I kinda doubt they would've kept her 4 more years (and possibly later), but then again with brainwashing and anything else they could've done, anything is possible - like with the Baskins.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:20 PM   #51
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i really dont want to think her family is hiding something, but there are too many things that don't match:

1. The kidnapper did'nt know who was going to open the door, what if it were the mother? what if it was an adult male?. Pretty risky for a criminal to do such a thing.

2. Her sister telling a detailed version of the kidnapping 5 years after. Why a child kept that to herself all that time? maybe all the episode was a induced memory? Making a child remenber something that never happened is easier than it seems...we have see it in other UM cases

3. Sadly, sightings are often just a product of the witness' mind, just like it happened in other cases featured in UM

4. After a year some doubts could have arise... maybe the call was made to give the kidnapping theory more strength?

Like i said i don't want to think her family is involved, but with the limited facts i know from a TV show...that's the theory that make more sense to me.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:47 PM   #52
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Quote:
i really dont want to think her family is hiding something, but there are too many things that don't match:

1. The kidnapper did'nt know who was going to open the door, what if it were the mother? what if it was an adult male?. Pretty risky for a criminal to do such a thing.

2. Her sister telling a detailed version of the kidnapping 5 years after. Why a child kept that to herself all that time? maybe all the episode was a induced memory? Making a child remenber something that never happened is easier than it seems...we have see it in other UM cases

3. Sadly, sightings are often just a product of the witness' mind, just like it happened in other cases featured in UM

4. After a year some doubts could have arise... maybe the call was made to give the kidnapping theory more strength?

Like i said i don't want to think her family is involved, but with the limited facts i know from a TV show...that's the theory that make more sense to me.
There's at least one lie somewhere in this case. The trick is to find out where it is and for what purpose.
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Old 08-12-2009, 10:31 PM   #53
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I honestly thought the mother was sincere, but of course it's only speculation. I thought the call seemed pretty real, but the sighting at the restaurant not so much- it could have been but chances are probably not.
And I hate to suggest it, but does anyone else think that perhaps the younger sister made up the story about Uncle Joe knocking? I highly doubt she would have just gone back to bed after that happened. And of course, it would be very difficult for her to want to recant after telling the police and everything.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:07 AM   #54
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Well basically I just re-watched it and the mother came off as very sincere to me too so I don't know. But something just doesn't add up.

Maybe it's a long shot but couldn't there have been an accident from when the sisters were playing or possibly arguing or whatever which caused Anthonette's death and the mother was just covering for the sister out of fear of what might happen to her? That would explain why the sister didn't talk before.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:38 PM   #55
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I just watched this segment as well:

I agree with most of you: I think that Anthonette was kidnapped for sex trafficking or prostitution purposes (perhaps even pornography), and after her "lucrative" age had expired, she was killed. I hate to say it, but it just doesn't seem realistic to think she's still alive.

I mean, I guess if she was brainwashed, she could be living somewhere in an abusive relationship, or with someone and have little recollection of her former life, but who knows.

One question.... what always struck me was... the 911 call, it was from Albecerque, so she couldn't have dialed 911, she would have needed the local emergency number for her specific village's emergency center, right? I don't even know my own local emergency number, let alone a young little girl. Know what I mean? How did she know where to call, the number, and the 911 call seemed so staged, like, she called, and immediately a man said "who told you you could use the phone." I'm not saying it was a hoax, but Im not positive about it. Obviously, a mom will want it to be their daughter to keep the hope alive.

As we all know, there have been so many UM segments where "legitimate leads" have proved to be false, and I wonder if we might someday learn that she was killed hours after the kidnapping, etc.

Anybody care to comment... particularly on the 911 call. Regardless, this is a VERY sad case, and very frustrating... The mom must be a very strong woman.
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Old 08-20-2009, 10:47 PM   #56
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Oh, and one more thing... it says in the beginning that the mother and her two sisters were "surprised to discover that she was not in the house." If the sister had seen what had happened, then why would she have been surprised. I don't know.... The thing about UM is that there's always more to it than we know.
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Old 08-21-2009, 12:44 AM   #57
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Quote:
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Oh, and one more thing... it says in the beginning that the mother and her two sisters were "surprised to discover that she was not in the house." If the sister had seen what had happened, then why would she have been surprised. I don't know.... The thing about UM is that there's always more to it than we know.

mattc you seem to contradict yourself. however, you made a good point about the 911 call. again, this is the stuff i have been mentioning, in that i suspect the mom. you can read my earlier posts.
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:17 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattc

One question.... what always struck me was... the 911 call, it was from Albecerque, so she couldn't have dialed 911, she would have needed the local emergency number for her specific village's emergency center, right? I don't even know my own local emergency number, let alone a young little girl. Know what I mean? How did she know where to call, the number, and the 911 call seemed so staged, like, she called, and immediately a man said "who told you you could use the phone." I'm not saying it was a hoax, but Im not positive about it. Obviously, a mom will want it to be their daughter to keep the hope alive.
I was initially confused at what you were getting at here, but now I follow. That is actually a really good point, and something I didn't even catch when I watched the segment recently.

That tape is so haunting, if it was a hoax it was very well done. It sounds so chillingly real.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:13 PM   #59
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Hey, thanks for the responses guys..... I don't know what you mean about me contradicting myself.. I did write that post late, and it wasn't worded very well. My point is, after watching the segment, I just wonder how the little girl was able to call her local town's emergency number from another part of the state. That's all.

So many questions, really.
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Old 08-21-2009, 07:54 PM   #60
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it wasn't meant as a slight. it was just confusion because you advocated the abduction theory yet you question the validity of the call which suggests she was kidnapped.

to me, if i were an investigator the finger points at the mom.
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