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Old 07-31-2009, 09:30 AM   #31
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I always thought there was a possibility that Anthonette's father could be involved in her disappearance somehow, did the police ever look into that?

I don't think I remember UM ever telling us if Penny was living with Anthonette's dad or not so I figured they were separated or divorced.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:41 PM   #32
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When investigating a case like this you have to have a starting point. Sometimes starting points have to start with inconsistencies. I see a lot of inconsistencies out there with the information that we do know.

First, why is she answering the door at 3am. Wouldn't she known who uncle joe is? How come the neighbors didn't hear anything. Everything is possible but everything at once happening...probably not coincidental. This is a mark 1 for suspicion. How was the mother not opening the door...wouldn't she have heard the knocking? If i were to kidnap that late at night, the last thing in hell i'm going to do is knock, why not break into the house quietly.

Second, why her? Kidnappings usually have ransom or sexual or some sort of motive. There was no motive here. People who steal children and raise them up on their own are usually go young unless they thought she could be their wife or something (elizabeth smart).

Third, the only person who can identify the child's voice is the mother. Which is sort of strange. Lets have someone else who knew anthonette analyze that call.

fourth, why did the sister tell that story five whole years later. Strange.

fifth, no body. why was there no body. most bodies are found. this means if there is a body there is intent to probably hide it.

This points the finger squarely on the mother. I think the mother accidentily killed her daughter somehow. Knowing she would lose her kids and her family would be broken, they colluded hide the truth. I think you might see the daughters come out after their mom dies.


EDIT: I also have a strong suspicion she was concealing something in her interviews by the way she was constnatly licking her lips. Also, mastermind said it right if she was so brave to open the door at 3am in the morning by a voice claimimng to be uncle joe when she didnt' recognize the voice and brave enough to call 911...she is probably brave enough to escape especially after all these years.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:42 PM   #33
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First, why is she answering the door at 3am. Wouldn't she known who uncle joe is? How come the neighbors didn't hear anything. Everything is possible but everything at once happening...probably not coincidental. This is a mark 1 for suspicion. How was the mother not opening the door...wouldn't she have heard the knocking? If i were to kidnap that late at night, the last thing in hell i'm going to do is knock, why not break into the house quietly.
You know something just occurred to me. How the heck would the abductor know that Antoinette would be the one to open the door? He must have either had prior knowledge or staked out the place beforehand.

The fact that he said "Uncle Joe" almost indicates that he knew one of the children was going to answer the door.

Were they prepared to take the child if the mother answered the door?


Quote:
Second, why her? Kidnappings usually have ransom or sexual or some sort of motive. There was no motive here. People who steal children and raise them up on their own are usually go young unless they thought she could be their wife or something (elizabeth smart).
It's rare but their are some cases of husband-wife kidnappers who have taken a teenager for the purpose of a sex slave.

But your point is taken. I tend to believe that these sightings are incorrect.

Quote:
Third, the only person who can identify the child's voice is the mother. Which is sort of strange. Lets have someone else who knew anthonette analyze that call.
Very True.

Quote:
fourth, why did the sister tell that story five whole years later. Strange.
And even more important, how accurate is her memory from that time period and is she embellishing details.

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fifth, no body. why was there no body. most bodies are found. this means if there is a body there is intent to probably hide it.
Considering their proximity to the desert and the Mexican Border. I am not surprised the body hasn't been found. It really depends on how well the perps plan to get rid of the body is. Most bodies are found because the perp is too lazy to dispose of the body properly.

I have three working theories on this case:

1. One is that someone in Antoinette's family killed her by accident or molested her and disposed of the body somewhere in the desert or on the reservation.

2. That this is a "parental" type abduction of some type. When I mean "parental" I mean that someone that she knew abducted her with the intent on raising her. I'm not necessarily accusing the father on this. But perhaps a relative. Hell maybe even Uncle Joe.

3. That Antoinette was killed or abducted as "payback" by some "sgroup" that Antoinette's father or Uncle Joe got involved in. I would not rule out some form of "slavery", Tribal dispute or drugs.
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Old 07-31-2009, 07:17 PM   #34
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I always look forward to your posts mastermind (complement). However, although i believe in analyzing all theories, i believe in narrowing in on the odds. I have problems with some of these theories.

I have three working theories on this case:

1. One is that someone in Antoinette's family killed her by accident or molested her and disposed of the body somewhere in the desert or on the reservation.

THis is most likely in my opinion. There was no sign of a struggle. No loud noises (crying) ...no past history of violence/abuse...etc. Most likely it had to be an accident. Until we find a body however, there's no way of knwoing exactly. But most likely it was some sort of accident.

2. That this is a "parental" type abduction of some type. When I mean "parental" I mean that someone that she knew abducted her with the intent on raising her. I'm not necessarily accusing the father on this. But perhaps a relative. Hell maybe even Uncle Joe.

I'm not buying this. Usually some parental abduction would involve some sort of attachment to child. Relatives would have been monitored. THere's no way she could have been living with them and people not notice that someoen got a 9 year old child out of blue. THey would have also had to be on run and all of a sudden disappeared making themselves suspicious. Even if it were someone trying to raise a child...desparate childless couple, why her? I think this theory is unlikely.

3. That Antoinette was killed or abducted as "payback" by some "sgroup" that Antoinette's father or Uncle Joe got involved in. I would not rule out some form of "slavery", Tribal dispute or drugs.

1) THis is most likely in my opinion. There was no sign of a struggle. No loud noises (crying) ...no past history of violence/abuse...etc. Most likely it had to be an accident. Until we find a body however, there's no way of knwoing exactly. But most likely it was some sort of accident.

3) I dont buy this much either. If they wanted to pay someone back, why kill an innocent child. Why not go directly after whoever it is you have beef with. Your killing is meant to send a message so why do a repulsive killing which would have little support within your own organization and why would you want body to be missing to send a message? I think this is still a small possibility though. Also, how would that explain the phone calls? THey wanted to give false hope she was alive for a payback killling? doesn't make whole lot of sense to me.


2) I'm not buying this. Usually some parental abduction would involve some sort of attachment to child. Relatives would have been monitored. THere's no way she could have been living with them and people not notice that someoen got a 9 year old child out of blue. THey would have also had to be on run and all of a sudden disappeared making themselves suspicious. Even if it were someone trying to raise a child...desparate childless couple, why her? I think this theory is unlikely.I dont buy this much either. If they wanted to pay someone back, why kill an innocent child. Why not go directly after whoever it is you have beef with. Your killing is meant to send a message so why do a repulsive killing which would have little support within your own organization and why would you want body to be missing to send a message? I think this is still a small possibility though. Also, how would that explain the phone calls? THey wanted to give false hope she was alive for a payback killling? doesn't make whole lot of sense to me.


Just asking questions and going through a thought process. However, the accidental death coverup is most likely to me.

Last edited by Phanekim; 07-31-2009 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:56 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanekim
I also have a strong suspicion she was concealing something in her interviews by the way she was constnatly licking her lips
I rewatched this segment after reading some of your guys recent comments. Phanekim you are right on about her lip licking she seems to do it at the close of every discussion she has during the interviews.

So after seeing this i did some simple facial indications of lying research online and every place I looked said that lip licking was a strong indicator that one was being lied too.

I have no idea what happened to that poor little girl but perhaps the mom does know something that she is not admitting too.
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Old 08-01-2009, 03:33 PM   #36
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I rewatched this segment after reading some of your guys recent comments. Phanekim you are right on about her lip licking she seems to do it at the close of every discussion she has during the interviews.

So after seeing this i did some simple facial indications of lying research online and every place I looked said that lip licking was a strong indicator that one was being lied too.

I have no idea what happened to that poor little girl but perhaps the mom does know something that she is not admitting too.
if my suspicions hold up, the answer really lies within the family. Thats the only way to get to the truth. Frustrating case for sure. Whenever you have a drug/gang case its always seems hard because of a group of people colluding.
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:04 PM   #37
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Hmm, very interesting to read your comments, Phanekim. While I hear what you guys are saying about the mother being involved somehow, why would she want to draw all that unnecessary attention to herself by going on national TV? It seems a bit too risky IMO.
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:12 PM   #38
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Assuming she was lying, the motive for which is uncertain, she would have to continue to do anything and everything she could to keep the lie going. The detectives or other friends/family could have suggested unsolved mysteries etc and she would have no choice but to go along with it or risk being exposed.
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Old 08-01-2009, 04:38 PM   #39
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Assuming she was lying, the motive for which is uncertain, she would have to continue to do anything and everything she could to keep the lie going. The detectives or other friends/family could have suggested unsolved mysteries etc and she would have no choice but to go along with it or risk being exposed.
i agree. If a body was ever found law enforcement would have a starting point. If you watch segment, I believe the local authority guy who seemed indian descent too was not skeptical of her while the fbi guy was somewhat skeptical if you ask me. I wonder if LE has even asked her the tough questions that I've asked here. i really really wonder what they know.
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Old 08-02-2009, 12:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanekim
When investigating a case like this you have to have a starting point. Sometimes starting points have to start with inconsistencies. I see a lot of inconsistencies out there with the information that we do know.

First, why is she answering the door at 3am. Wouldn't she known who uncle joe is? How come the neighbors didn't hear anything. Everything is possible but everything at once happening...probably not coincidental. This is a mark 1 for suspicion. How was the mother not opening the door...wouldn't she have heard the knocking? If i were to kidnap that late at night, the last thing in hell i'm going to do is knock, why not break into the house quietly.

Second, why her? Kidnappings usually have ransom or sexual or some sort of motive. There was no motive here. People who steal children and raise them up on their own are usually go young unless they thought she could be their wife or something (elizabeth smart).

Third, the only person who can identify the child's voice is the mother. Which is sort of strange. Lets have someone else who knew anthonette analyze that call.

fourth, why did the sister tell that story five whole years later. Strange.

fifth, no body. why was there no body. most bodies are found. this means if there is a body there is intent to probably hide it.

This points the finger squarely on the mother. I think the mother accidentily killed her daughter somehow. Knowing she would lose her kids and her family would be broken, they colluded hide the truth. I think you might see the daughters come out after their mom dies.


EDIT: I also have a strong suspicion she was concealing something in her interviews by the way she was constnatly licking her lips. Also, mastermind said it right if she was so brave to open the door at 3am in the morning by a voice claimimng to be uncle joe when she didnt' recognize the voice and brave enough to call 911...she is probably brave enough to escape especially after all these years.
I can't answer everything (or really, anything) but #3 makes no sense. So someone is going to call in a 911 call just to keep some sort of lie going? Riiiiight. That's a pretty complicated lie. The thinking would be "I need to get so and so to call 911 and pretend to be Anthonette to keep the suspicion off me." SOrry, that just dosn't fit that it would be made up. The segment shows others around her, family members. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened, with other family members around, and someone could have spoken up.

#4 doesn't surprise me either. Trauma can do massive things to a person's memory, especially to a small child, and people can remember things about an incident years after it happened if it traumatized them enough. Also maybe it was a dream perhaps and she thought she remembered it as a memory. Hard to say, but I wouldn't discount it.

#5 maybe there is no body! She's either still alive or perhaps her remains destroyed.

I'm sorry but none of the above points anything clearly at the mother at all. LIcking lips dosn't necessarily mean lies either, it can also mean nervousness and one's mouth constantly going dry, thereby having to re-moisten them a lot. I've been told I do similar things right before I have to give a presentation in front of others.

Perhaps she did escape, perhaps she didn't. Stockholm Syndrome can come into play here and she could have easily been completely broken down. Brainwashing and manipulation can do lots of things.

No, the mother may not have necessarily heard the knocking. It depends on what the layout is of the house. I can remember being younger and hearing people at our door but my parents didn't. Especially since their bedroom was far from the door and frankly they are deep sleepers.

There was no motive here that we know of. That doesn't mean there isn't one. The segment isn't the be-all end-all of this case and there is a lot we don't know. I will agree that there does seem to be information being left out on the part of the mom....but I believe it's because it's very likely she has a good idea what the kidnapping is connected to and to whom. There was the case in las Vegas several months back where a boy was kidnapped due to his mom's drug connections. I think his last name was Puffinberger, some odd name. I think it's very possible that something like this could have happened.

Also, family members, especially parents are the first to be looked at and scrutinized. Now of course, like I said, maybe the police do actually suspect her, but usually they mention that on the show who they have suspicions on. That wasn't mentioned. LE would be having major egg on their faces if they come on national television and going into the stranger/family member theory if they hadn't checked out the mom first. Sloppy to bad police work does happen, but I truely think LE would have said that mom was on their suspect list if they didn't go for her story.
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Old 08-02-2009, 01:40 AM   #41
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I can't answer everything (or really, anything) but #3 makes no sense. So someone is going to call in a 911 call just to keep some sort of lie going? Riiiiight. That's a pretty complicated lie. The thinking would be "I need to get so and so to call 911 and pretend to be Anthonette to keep the suspicion off me." SOrry, that just dosn't fit that it would be made up. The segment shows others around her, family members. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened, with other family members around, and someone could have spoken up.

#4 doesn't surprise me either. Trauma can do massive things to a person's memory, especially to a small child, and people can remember things about an incident years after it happened if it traumatized them enough. Also maybe it was a dream perhaps and she thought she remembered it as a memory. Hard to say, but I wouldn't discount it.

#5 maybe there is no body! She's either still alive or perhaps her remains destroyed.

I'm sorry but none of the above points anything clearly at the mother at all. LIcking lips dosn't necessarily mean lies either, it can also mean nervousness and one's mouth constantly going dry, thereby having to re-moisten them a lot. I've been told I do similar things right before I have to give a presentation in front of others.

Perhaps she did escape, perhaps she didn't. Stockholm Syndrome can come into play here and she could have easily been completely broken down. Brainwashing and manipulation can do lots of things.

No, the mother may not have necessarily heard the knocking. It depends on what the layout is of the house. I can remember being younger and hearing people at our door but my parents didn't. Especially since their bedroom was far from the door and frankly they are deep sleepers.

There was no motive here that we know of. That doesn't mean there isn't one. The segment isn't the be-all end-all of this case and there is a lot we don't know. I will agree that there does seem to be information being left out on the part of the mom....but I believe it's because it's very likely she has a good idea what the kidnapping is connected to and to whom. There was the case in las Vegas several months back where a boy was kidnapped due to his mom's drug connections. I think his last name was Puffinberger, some odd name. I think it's very possible that something like this could have happened.

Also, family members, especially parents are the first to be looked at and scrutinized. Now of course, like I said, maybe the police do actually suspect her, but usually they mention that on the show who they have suspicions on. That wasn't mentioned. LE would be having major egg on their faces if they come on national television and going into the stranger/family member theory if they hadn't checked out the mom first. Sloppy to bad police work does happen, but I truely think LE would have said that mom was on their suspect list if they didn't go for her story.
point taken. I'll only say two things though. What other possibilities could it be. I mention because we do not have access to all the evidence we can't decided. However, what other scenario could it be? What evidence for any other scenario is there. Like i've said many times, you gotta go for what is most likely. Her staging a phone call is wierd in my opinion too...but how bout the other points i've mentioned. When taken together, you have to consider maybe she does know something.

second point thought is at the charley project website they state that they now suspect foul play.
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:46 PM   #42
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I believe foul play too, but because it's not likely she is still alive since so much time has gone by and if there are no new sightings or calls, then it's a good suspicion. So just because police believe foul play doesn't mean mom had anything to do with it.

The other points you mentioned, are, IMO, explainable with some of the scenarios that I described. Most cases start with closest family and work outward. What seems possible, (again, only my opinion and my limited knowledge of this case, research, etc) is that Uncle Joe IS involved and there isn't evidence to prosecute him, or that he has knowledge of who did it. I don't know the nature of their relationship with him and how close they were of course, but the way to get someone to open the door is to have it opened to someone you trust.

This then stretches out to A) was it him or B) someone impersonating him? If it's A) why? He could be a sexual predator or there could be drugs involved...whatever. This scenario does seem kind of weak admittedly. So then we go to part B) which is someone impersonating him...which then would go into a Puffinberger scenario...and seems to be IMO the best scenario. If it was related to drugs (I'll even stretch into cartels as a possibility) and getting back at this uncle or even Anthonette's mom, this seems likely.

However, another possibility is that was Anthonette may not even have been the target. Back to scenario B, it's possible that whomever thought Anthonette's mother was going to answer the door, not a child. When she opened the door they decided to grab first ask questions later. I'm not saying mistaken identity of course but it's possible that instead of barging in and going after mom they just decided it would be easier to take the child since she answered the door. Smaller, lighter, easier to deal with then an adult.

Once she's taken, then what? I'm thinking (opinion again obviously) that she was kept for a while for a variety of possible reason...perhaps like Shawn Hornbeck, or perhaps tortured...if it's related to drugs like my strongest possibility is, sadly this could have happened. This would fit into the 911 call which I honestly feel was her....the panicked voice, the someone asking her who let her use the phone, the ending of the call, it just does not seem staged in the least, it does not fit in that it would be staged...it's too elaborate and I really think that this isn't something the mom would do. She dosen't seem like the type of person to have this whole huge elaborate scenario going. I can see lying, covering up stuff, but to go as far as to have a 911 call complete with a 2nd party being on the line too..it's just too much.

Does the sighting fit in? Maybe. It seems odd that someone would drop a note with "Help me, call police" on it. To drop a note that says that and just have it be a joke seems very off, especially with the behavior of the individuals involved. If police had been called in time it would have been an interesting scenario to have them called and it all turn out to be a joke. It's very possible in my mind it could have been her...in those rare cases there have been kidnapped kids kept around for several years. It's possible that she was sold off perhaps. I'm thinking of two cases....unfortunately I can't recall all my details correctly but I think both were in Austria...one girl held captive for a number of years until her late teens...she escaped I believe, also the case of the father who held his daughter captive for a number of years and abused her and had children with her. I'm just trying to show that it's not necessarily far-fetched that something similar could have happened to Anthonette.

IIRC, from the segment there was a psychic who said she was still alive and possibly had child. I don't put credence into all psychics...I do believe some have a gift of sorts but not all. If she was somewhat correct, then it's possible this sighting really was of her and was perhaps in a scenario similar to the first girl in Austria. After some time, the will to fight and to leave could have left her after repeated brainwashing and abuse.

I really think the key here is Uncle Joe...whether he is directly involved or not. If my theory that drugs are involved is even 1/16th correct, then I have a feeling that she has a history with dealing with these people or she was closely associated enough to the uncle to have deep suspicions that he or someone he knows did it, but to admit it would mean, to her, admitting that she has a circle of unsavory people around her and she did, inadvertantly, have had a part in her daughter's disappearance..... or she may feel it would put her life in danger, since they've struck once they could come back and cause more harm.

Now so many years have gone by that it seems like if she felt this way that it would be easier now to come forward but.... I don't know...fear does different things to people. I can't explain that. I know it also seems like a drug-related kidnapping wouldn't have gone on so long...usually the person is found dead or is returned, as in the Puffinberger case. This is why I think it's a big possibility that she could have been traded off, sold off in some form of human trafficking...unfortunately it is not un-common across the border with these circles. In the end I know no more then anyone else here of course, but I just feel that the points I've brought up in these two posts are more closer to what happened vs. mom being directly involved.
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Old 08-02-2009, 08:28 PM   #43
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I believe foul play too, but because it's not likely she is still alive since so much time has gone by and if there are no new sightings or calls, then it's a good suspicion. So just because police believe foul play doesn't mean mom had anything to do with it.

The other points you mentioned, are, IMO, explainable with some of the scenarios that I described. Most cases start with closest family and work outward. What seems possible, (again, only my opinion and my limited knowledge of this case, research, etc) is that Uncle Joe IS involved and there isn't evidence to prosecute him, or that he has knowledge of who did it. I don't know the nature of their relationship with him and how close they were of course, but the way to get someone to open the door is to have it opened to someone you trust.

This then stretches out to A) was it him or B) someone impersonating him? If it's A) why? He could be a sexual predator or there could be drugs involved...whatever. This scenario does seem kind of weak admittedly. So then we go to part B) which is someone impersonating him...which then would go into a Puffinberger scenario...and seems to be IMO the best scenario. If it was related to drugs (I'll even stretch into cartels as a possibility) and getting back at this uncle or even Anthonette's mom, this seems likely.

However, another possibility is that was Anthonette may not even have been the target. Back to scenario B, it's possible that whomever thought Anthonette's mother was going to answer the door, not a child. When she opened the door they decided to grab first ask questions later. I'm not saying mistaken identity of course but it's possible that instead of barging in and going after mom they just decided it would be easier to take the child since she answered the door. Smaller, lighter, easier to deal with then an adult.

Once she's taken, then what? I'm thinking (opinion again obviously) that she was kept for a while for a variety of possible reason...perhaps like Shawn Hornbeck, or perhaps tortured...if it's related to drugs like my strongest possibility is, sadly this could have happened. This would fit into the 911 call which I honestly feel was her....the panicked voice, the someone asking her who let her use the phone, the ending of the call, it just does not seem staged in the least, it does not fit in that it would be staged...it's too elaborate and I really think that this isn't something the mom would do. She dosen't seem like the type of person to have this whole huge elaborate scenario going. I can see lying, covering up stuff, but to go as far as to have a 911 call complete with a 2nd party being on the line too..it's just too much.

Does the sighting fit in? Maybe. It seems odd that someone would drop a note with "Help me, call police" on it. To drop a note that says that and just have it be a joke seems very off, especially with the behavior of the individuals involved. If police had been called in time it would have been an interesting scenario to have them called and it all turn out to be a joke. It's very possible in my mind it could have been her...in those rare cases there have been kidnapped kids kept around for several years. It's possible that she was sold off perhaps. I'm thinking of two cases....unfortunately I can't recall all my details correctly but I think both were in Austria...one girl held captive for a number of years until her late teens...she escaped I believe, also the case of the father who held his daughter captive for a number of years and abused her and had children with her. I'm just trying to show that it's not necessarily far-fetched that something similar could have happened to Anthonette.

IIRC, from the segment there was a psychic who said she was still alive and possibly had child. I don't put credence into all psychics...I do believe some have a gift of sorts but not all. If she was somewhat correct, then it's possible this sighting really was of her and was perhaps in a scenario similar to the first girl in Austria. After some time, the will to fight and to leave could have left her after repeated brainwashing and abuse.

I really think the key here is Uncle Joe...whether he is directly involved or not. If my theory that drugs are involved is even 1/16th correct, then I have a feeling that she has a history with dealing with these people or she was closely associated enough to the uncle to have deep suspicions that he or someone he knows did it, but to admit it would mean, to her, admitting that she has a circle of unsavory people around her and she did, inadvertantly, have had a part in her daughter's disappearance..... or she may feel it would put her life in danger, since they've struck once they could come back and cause more harm.

Now so many years have gone by that it seems like if she felt this way that it would be easier now to come forward but.... I don't know...fear does different things to people. I can't explain that. I know it also seems like a drug-related kidnapping wouldn't have gone on so long...usually the person is found dead or is returned, as in the Puffinberger case. This is why I think it's a big possibility that she could have been traded off, sold off in some form of human trafficking...unfortunately it is not un-common across the border with these circles. In the end I know no more then anyone else here of course, but I just feel that the points I've brought up in these two posts are more closer to what happened vs. mom being directly involved.
What would be the motive of kidnapping a kid under your drug theory.

Money? there was no ransom note.

Revenge..to make an example? Why her? Why has body been so hard to find imply it was well hidden?

As far as the sighting, that is too far off from what we know to even consider. There's no way you can tell if its anthonette.

As far as the mom, doesn't seem like she can do it doesn't work. You gotta go with much more than that.

human trafficking now? Thats another tangent. Human trafficking for what? Aren't people getting trafficked into the united states not out? what possible reason...sex slave industry? If so why her?

Now I know i've not said too much about gut instinct but I think the mother is lying. The recorded phone call seems phony too.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:27 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanekim
The recorded phone call seems phony too.
Just curious, but why do you think the call is a hoax?

I feel there is a good chance it was authentic. Whoever made the call, dialed 911. That's a pretty gutsy thing to do since such calls are more easily traced. Also, the call came a year after Anthonette disappeared. If it is a prank, it's a bit esoteric. Finally, two voices are heard, a child and an adult. I know this doesn't tell us much but I think its unlikely that an adult prankster would get their kid involved or vice versa if the call was a kid's idea.

Not sure what to make of the parental involvement theory as a whole but don't think it should be ruled out. One of the articles on the case said that the police now seem to believe that Anthonette was killed and not abducted(?) The article didn't indicate what facts made authorities change their position, although I guess it could be because so much time has passed without contact or sightings.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:31 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanekim
What would be the motive of kidnapping a kid under your drug theory.

Money? there was no ransom note.

Revenge..to make an example? Why her? Why has body been so hard to find imply it was well hidden?

As far as the sighting, that is too far off from what we know to even consider. There's no way you can tell if its anthonette.

As far as the mom, doesn't seem like she can do it doesn't work. You gotta go with much more than that.

human trafficking now? Thats another tangent. Human trafficking for what? Aren't people getting trafficked into the united states not out? what possible reason...sex slave industry? If so why her?

Now I know i've not said too much about gut instinct but I think the mother is lying. The recorded phone call seems phony too.
For the first part, read up on the Puffinberger case.

No, money dosn't make sense either...no ransom note. They don't strike me as being well-off.

Revenge could work. Perhaps a warning. Money owed, being ratted out, threat of being ratted it, there could be a whole list of things. Drugs and the people who deal with them are not a logical group.

Apparently you don't live near the border I take it. I do and believe me we get bombarded all the time with media about border issues, and trafficking. Cartels are notorious for doing this, and not just trafficking illegals but having prostitution rings on both sides. Girls from other countries are sent in to Mexico, and I wouldn't be surprised if some from here are sent in. Plausible? Perhaps not necessarily but I wouldn't rule it out totally. Why her? There are sickos who like that sort of thing...look at Thailand and Cambodia for instance. And she could have easily been used in the United States without ever leaving.

The sighting is still plausible. There's too much that we don't know where it could go either way. Is it too far off? There is no proof that it isn't, so you can't totally discount it. Discounting something because it seems "too far off" doesn't work.

You're also not mentioning what I personally feel is the strongest likelihood...that Anthonette herself was not the intended target. See above post. Another scenario is that she was held for a while while they figured out what to do, since now they had the wrong person, she had seen them and could give a description. If they were that shoddy, then it's possible a body would have been pretty easy to find. But maybe not..New Mexico is full of rural desert areas. She could be really anywhere, especially if that sighting was really her. Likely though, it seems she's still in NM, either not found or as an UID. Not sure if mom has given up DNA.

And my gut instinct tells me that that phone call is real. I don't have proof, but that's my gut...just too elaborate for someone like the mom to make it up. To drive all the way to Albuquerque and call it in? I suppose she could have had someone that she knows do it...but why? Why something so elaborate when it would be so much easier to deny deny deny then to go to great lengths for a huge cover-up. Simpler is better, and much easier to keep under wraps. Keep it simple and you're less likely to trip up and make a mistake down the road.

When having it played in front of her, LE would have been watching her reaction. I'm sorry, but she does not strike me as that great an actress, especially if you feel she lying by watching her facial gestures---which would mean LE somehow missed that and would mean she's a REALLY bad actress who has somehow pulled the wool over LE's eyes. Again, LE has not named her as a suspect and they apparently believe her. Of course to be fair they have ruled out Uncle Joe as well, from what I've read...so of course my opinion would mean nothing but...my statements above still stand for my opinion. Yes they can be fooled and could have done shoddy work, but apparently they don't feel she had a part in it. It's the one thing I can honestly say I am sure of.

You say that just picturing that she couldn't do it isn't enough, but I say right back that just because she's the mother isn't enough. There just isn't even any circumstancial evidence that she knowingly did something. I maintain that either Uncle Joe is somehow the link in this, directly or indirectly, or maybe it was a dream, and not a memory on the part of the sister. I do think it's entirely possible that mom is withholding information of some kind, but that she's not directly involved. I still maintain drugs could somehow involved and that Anthonette wasn't the target necessarily. It seems likely she was alive for at least a short period of time, at least long enough to make the call, but after that it gets murky. Sex trafficking, yes, likely on the far end of plausible but my points in the above post go to show that lots of things are possible, but not necessarily likely in this case. Having a narrow view and being fixated one thing doesn't get cases solved...and while I've honestly tried to wrap my head around the mom being directly responsible, I just don't see it. I also don't think that the medicine woman's sayings should be discounted, especially since elements seem to corroborate with details of their own investigation...or at least they did at the time. This is what makes me think that perhaps the sighting could be credible...but again, there is just too little either way right now. Nothing new seems to have come out about this case at all.

Last edited by bugnpinky; 08-02-2009 at 09:47 PM.
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