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Old 01-04-2009, 03:34 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by G-Force Glockstar
I know it was over 8 years ago, but does anyone know who killed her? Everyone says it's her mother, and some people say it's her Dad. A very few people say it was probably her brother.
Who do you think killed her?
I think it was a distraught worker at Jon Ramsey's workplace. he knew he had money.
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Old 01-04-2009, 06:21 PM   #17
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I think it was a distraught worker at Jon Ramsey's workplace. he knew he had money.
1.Why did he use the Ramsey's own material for the Ransom note? Why didn;t he bring his own materials?

2.Why risk valuable escape time to construct a garrote to strangle her? Especially since you've already bludgened her?

3. Why not ransom her for real? He could have netted a cool $200,000 for her and not get caught and still get his revenge on John Ramsey. He could still kill her anytime he wanted as well.

4. Wouldn;t the Ramsey's know exactly who this person is? Wouldn;t Jon know of a disgruntled employee? Also why would the Ramseys be lenient in helping the investigation to protect this guy?

5. Why kill Jon Benet? Why not kill John Ramsey himself? You already in the house. You ready to committ murder? You probably could have killed him and his wife in his sleep? You probably could have coerced John Ramsey to follow you in which case you could torture John Ramsey any which way you wanted.

6. If you've broken into the house, why not steal some if his valuables while your at it?


A point to keep in mind is that the 18,000 was bonus money. Not part of the regular payroll or savings. If the Ramseys had to pay a ransom..it would not be a big financial hit for them. That IMHO, is why that amount was written...it was so the Ramseys wouldn't have to hurt their quality of life by paying out an unexpected amount like $200,000 or a half a million?

The Ramseys would simply lose money that was EXTRA income, not regualr income or savings.

Choosing $18,000 was a benefit to the Ramsey's situation, not a hindrance.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:38 PM   #18
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A point to keep in mind is that the 18,000 was bonus money. Not part of the regular payroll or savings. If the Ramseys had to pay a ransom..it would not be a big financial hit for them. That IMHO, is why that amount was written...it was so the Ramseys wouldn't have to hurt their quality of life by paying out an unexpected amount like $200,000 or a half a million?

The Ramseys would simply lose money that was EXTRA income, not regualr income or savings.

Choosing $18,000 was a benefit to the Ramsey's situation, not a hindrance.
The amount mentioned in the ransom note was $118,000.00--almost the exact amount of John Ramsey's Christmas bonus. If a stranger wrote that note it is an act of criminal genius to rival if not surpass anything in crime history--making the writing look like Patsy's and having everything in the note point back to the Ramseys.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #19
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In a way, Burke might be the one who ultimately solves this case. Perhaps via confession or he may provide some info about that night that police have overlooked.
That's what I'm thinking--I just hope he outlives his father and survives to produce his own tell-all (as opposed to the tell-a-tale his parents wrote.) It's too bad John is likely to leave Burke so much money he won't have a financial motive for writing the truth.

Remember that the Whites, who were the Ramseys' best friends, broke off their relationship shortly after the murder. It's hardly probable that the Ramseys confessed outright, but they said or did something to make the Whites suspicious of their ultimate guilt. Even if Burke slept through the whole attack initially--he lived in that house for ten years afterwards. He saw or heard something pass between John and Patsy that would give him a fairly clear picture of what happened, even if he suppresses or denies it. If he was guilty and confesses many years later, although there is no statute of limitations on murder, it's unlikely that he could be charged with murder.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:25 PM   #20
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Someone in that house did it and I think it was the mother. I've always thought it was the mother. I don't care if the DNA cleared her. There have been mistakes made in reading DNA and people who have forged DNA results.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:51 AM   #21
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I don't think it was anyone in the house.

I think the killer is dead, and that it was Michael Helgoth. Quite a bit of evidence does point to Helgoth.
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:00 PM   #22
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I don't think it was anyone in the house.

I think the killer is dead, and that it was Michael Helgoth. Quite a bit of evidence does point to Helgoth.
Be Careful. A lot of the evidence implicating John Steven Gigax & Michael Helgoth has been called into question. I hope you are not getting this theory from the Tracey documentary.

1. I believe the story about him having a cap with the symbols SBTC has been dismissed by a lot of people. This may be a confusion with another suspect who had Santa Barbera Tennis Club t-shirt. That suspect has been cleared, i think.

2. His boots don't match the footprint in the basement.

3. There's been no evidence of either being a pedophile

4. No concrete evidence that a stun gun was used in Jon Benet

5. Questionable as to whether a poperty dispute would really be that much of a motivation to kill Jon Benet.

6. Still doesn't explain why the used materials in the house to write ransom note and why he risked the time to get captured.

7. Again if they really wanted to, they could have ransomed Jon Benet for real.

8. There are other reasons for Helgoth's suicide. His girlfriend broke up with him a few days before the sucide. Helgoth's friends reported him being broken up about the failed relationship.

9. Only real evidence against Helgoth was his suspicious sucide after Jon Benets death and the stun gun found next to him. There is even question as to whether a stun gun was really found.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jediknight1823
I don't think it was anyone in the house.

I think the killer is dead, and that it was Michael Helgoth. Quite a bit of evidence does point to Helgoth.
I think you're on to something. Regardless of what's being said, I will always believe that the Ramsey family is innocent. It's nice to know I'm not alone in that thought.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:27 PM   #24
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Perhaps but the dna found on her doesn't match the family so i don't think they did it. Neither does the handwriting match any member of the family either. In fact most profilers long ago eliminated them. Not that it's not possible but i think it was simply the work of a serial rapist/killer. Most pedophiles tend to fit that mo but not all, there have been many rape cases that have happened right in peoples houses while family members sleep. The fact that the items came from the houses can mean a lot of things. it can mean the person did this to throw the police off into looking at the family. It can also mean the killer never planned on killing her but due to some reason he did...perhaps part of the fantasy...perhaps he heard someone moving...no one can say. The sad fact is the boulder police like most small town police bumbled this case badly.


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Originally Posted by Mastermind
The abduction happened inside the house.

The murder happened inside the house

The materials for the garrotte came from inside the house

The material for the ransom note came from inside the house.

Everything in this case happens from inside the house.


This all points to the suspect being someone from in the house.

Pedophiles are creatures of opportunity. They usely don't brazenly break into peoples homes and kill and molest their victims inside the homes.

No kidnapper with half a brain, would write such a long ransom note, ask for so little money and then panick so much that he kills the victim he was ransoming in the first place.

It was either

1. One of the Ramsey Family did and the family covered up the murder to protect the family as a whole

2. Some business partner or employee of John Ramsey had a grudge against him and decided to get vengeance on him by killing his beauty pageant daughter.

3. Members of some organized crime that Jon Ramsey was involved with. Perhaps from Atlanta. Perhaps Johns fortune wasn't completely legitimate. Maybe loan sharks finally caught up with him.

4. A jealous lover of John Ramsey who was jilted.

I vote number 1 as the most probable.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:12 AM   #25
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I think you're on to something. Regardless of what's being said, I will always believe that the Ramsey family is innocent. It's nice to know I'm not alone in that thought.
I don't think it was anyone in the house, that killed Jon Benet. I think it was an intruder.

I'm still leaning towards Helgoth, and that the original intention wasn't to kill Jon Benet, it was to ransom her. It's possible there was a 3rd individual working with Helgoth and his partner. And that's where everything went from a ransom to murder.

This was obviously a massively botched investigation, where the Boulder police refused to look at anyone else but the Ramseys. Sadly unless Burke saw something, I don't think this will have an ending like another investigation that was botched, but ultimately saw someone put away. I don't see it having the closure that the Martha Moxley case had.

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Old 01-08-2009, 10:55 AM   #26
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Most pedophiles tend to fit that mo but not all, there have been many rape cases that have happened right in peoples houses while family members sleep
How may rapists have blugeoned and strangled their victims AND wrote a nearly three page ransom note AND used nearly all their criminal items from AND didn't sexual molest their victim at the time AND left the dead victim in said house AND they decided not to rob the house or kill anyone else or damage the house.

John Benet was not sexually molested at the time of her death (whether she was after, is another story)


They';re are a lot easier ways to kidnapp and kill Jon Benet than breaking into the Ramsey house.

Jon benet was practically all over the place at beauty pageants and what have you. A pedophile could easily have kidnapped her backstage or lured her as a photographer or took her in the numerous times she was alone without parental supervision.

Helgoth IMHO, is as credible a suspect as Mark Karr was. Mark Helgoth became a popular suspect due to a documentary done by a questionable source.

Again, Helgoth commited suicide most likely due to his loss of his girlfriend. I also believe that Helgoth committed sucide on Valentine's Day, no? A popular day for suicides.

Quote:
However I wouldn't be surprised if John and Patsy thought that their son did it. And tried to cover that up, and in the process destroyed valuable evidence.

Why would they think that unless it was the truth? If the window was broken wouldn;t they automatically assume that an intruder took her.

Your also assuming in that case that the Ramseys knew their daughter was dead at the time? Why? Wouldn;t they call the hospital? You mean to tell me they risked moving her body? Bludgeoning her or strangling her?

People cover up crimes not suspicions.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:11 AM   #27
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Another year, another Christmas, another bump for this thread.

http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_140600...e=most_emailed
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:17 AM   #28
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I have strong feelings about this case. I feel the ramseys may be innocent but the ransom note gets me. Who does that inside the house? I've seen the lay out of the Ramsey home and there is no way, no way someone who has never been in the home navigate in the dark without waking someone. I feel someone who had been in the house before murdered Jon benet.Somene has to know something.
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Old 12-24-2009, 05:19 PM   #29
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I have strong feelings about this case. I feel the ramseys may be innocent but the ransom note gets me. Who does that inside the house? I've seen the lay out of the Ramsey home and there is no way, no way someone who has never been in the home navigate in the dark without waking someone. I feel someone who had been in the house before murdered Jon benet.Somene has to know something.
Some things to think about regarding the ransom note (my analysis):

1. If you read the first part of the letter, it reads much like a formal business letter that a CEO might have his secretary draw up. Read a copy of a letter you receive from your bank or insurance company and compare the style to the first paragraph of the ransom note. The letters were written with proper indentation and format. Like someone who is used to dictating or writting letters.

2. Whether it be the Ramseys or an outside killer, the ransom note only had one purpose..to hide identity and the motive of the crime. That's why the first paragraph says the most important thing; the who, what, why of the crime.

3. Whoever wrote the ransom note, made an effort to hide their handwriting. The writer feared that his handwriting might be recognized.

4.The language of the letter is that of someone who has worked in an office and has a higher eduction background. The languiage also indicates that whoever wrote the letter is most likely a peer of John Ramsey and is familliar with electronics of somesort.

5. John Benet's name is never mentioned once in the letter. In fact, she is refered to only as a daughter. This is interesting since very few people know or would have seen the correct spelling of her name. Nor is Burke Ramsey threatened or the rest of the family.

6. The reason why the letter is so long is that most if it is spent going through the details of the ransom drop. The writer apparently thought this procedure significant enough to go into severe detail.

7. The writer knew that Jon Benet was dead or was going to die by the fact that he says there is a 99% chance of her being killed. 99% is practically a certainty. This also gives the writer an excuse as to why Jon Benet was killed. Namely the Ramseys spoke to the police on the monitored phone that the writer boasted of.

8. I'm going to put this in bold.
THE WRITER NEVER INTENDED FOR JON BENET's BODY TO BE FOUND!!
That was the mistake the writer made. He even says that the Ramsey's wouldn't find her body in the ransom not. If you follow this thinking, this case becomes a whole lot more clearer.

9. The letter writer IMHO, does not seem to be a confident person. Nor does he appear to have committed a crime before. The letter is fairly tame. There is no profanity. The writer keeps repeating the fact that she will die and almost is prompting John Ramsey to act. This is author is not Jack the Ripper by any means.

10. Everything in this letter feels like an office memo, a teacher's note or a letter your mom might put in your lunch. Compare this letter to the Zodiac letters and you'll see what I mean. The Zoidac was quick witted and vicious in his prose

11. SBTC is the name of the fictional terrorist group that is referred to in the first paragraph. The original lettering was SBT but then a C was added to it later. If SBTC really meant anything why would the writer forget the last letter?

12. The writer is most likely a peer of John Ramsey.(If not John or Patsy themselves..) He's old enough to have graduated college. Old enough to have been invited into the Ramsey house more than once. Old enough to have worked in an office setting for more than 2 years. Old enough to have had an eduction or experience in the electronics field. He has to be conencted enough to be worthy of being invited to the Ramsey home. Yet spurned enough to want to get revenge.
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Old 12-24-2009, 06:12 PM   #30
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This is what I get for coming here late at night. I dreamed about the case (not for the first time)! In the dream, something had come to light revealing the Ramseys were guilty and as John Ramsey was coming to or from a courthouse or press conference I started screaming that he was an "accessory to murder" and hoped he was happy with himself for "accusing innocent people and ruining their lives" and was throwing things at him. People were telling me to be nice, and that I'd get in trouble for throwing things, but I said, "I don't care; he deserves it!"

If not for the ransom note, I don't know if I'd consider the Ramseys 100% innocent but I'd give them 100% of the benefit of the doubt. With it, one has to suppose if they were not directly involved, that the ransom note writer knew enough intimate details (including quotes from movies they'd just rented and the amount of John's Christmas bonus) right down to being able to imitate Patsy's handwriting, yet had SOMETHING on them serious enough that they would not implicate this person after maligning half the town of Boulder! The simpler explanation is, Patsy wrote the note. She would have no reason to do so unless covering up for either herself, John, or Burke having killed JonBenét. And Patsy is the one who seems to have been up all night.

About the stranger DNA, I still want to know. Obviously they took DNA from every suspect, including ones who have since died, while alive, and this doesn't match any of them. Do they know what racial or ethnic group the unknown male came from? If all of the suspects were white, and this guy was Mexican, Asian, Pakistani or wherever else sweatshops are usually found, could tell ya something.
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