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Old 08-02-2006, 03:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skunk ape
As for JFK, it was Lee Harvey Oswald in the book depository with a bolt-action rifle. Don't be duped by Oliver Stone's portrayal of the case.
Thank you, skunk ape. That case is a mystery only if you're desperate enough to twist it into one, ignoring all evidence and all logic. Kudos to UM for never pretending it was anything other than a lone nutcase. Once in a while the guy standing over the body with the gun in his hand is actually the guilty party. Although that's never the case on internet message boards.

I've been to that location. It's much smaller than it appears on TV or the clips. Oswald had plenty of time especially since his first shot, the one that missed completely, came earlier than originally estimated.

Read Gerald Posner's book. And go to the sites that legitimately look at the case, showing the angle Oswald would have had for each shot. The distance was not that great and for the second and third shot it was almost like duck hunting. The tree may have deflected the first shot, which Oswald took prematurely before the angle was ideal.

The magic bullet lined up perfectly, once you understand where Connally was seated in relation to Kennedy. It was not the same distance from the door. Connally was more toward the center of the car than Kennedy.

And as far as the conspiracy, remarkable that Oswald got the job at the book depository before Kennedy's trip to Dallas was announced and before that specific motorcade route was chosen. Anyone setting him up in that building must have been clairvoyant.

Oswald simply got lucky. He was a radical who took a pot shot through an open window and missed General Walker many months before he killed Kennedy.

Once again, the simplest explanation is normally the correct one. The conspiracy theorists hysterically want to add one wild variable after another and pretend it makes their claim more likely to be true, not less likely.

Forgetting everything else, just look at the second gunman aspect and you can see how absurd it is. Different shooters, one at ground level and another from the 5th floor. You know how difficult that is to coordinate? There was no evidence Oswald had a walkie talkie or any other type of communication device. What if one starts shooting 5 or 10 seconds before the other is ready? That foils the plot right there. Besides, pretend all you want, but if there were two shooters from radically different angles there would have been evidence of it. Actual evidence, like everything Oswald left at the scene. People who saw him arrive, similar to Oswald coming to work with his curtain rods. Not blurry shadows in the dark with people desperately and comically trying to invent the image of a person decades later.

You couldn't fool half or more of the people on the scene into believing there was only one shooter, if indeed there had been two, or more. What if shots came at the same time, from each angle? Bang Bang. Amazing that didn't happen, in such a short time frame, a matter of seconds for all the shots to be completed. The reason it didn't happen was somewhat basic; one assassin and acting alone.

My favorite of all are the claims Kennedy's body was manipulated on the plane back to Washington, to conceal the direction the bullet wounds came from. Are those guys that good? They have everything covered like that? Something as wildly incredibly unpredictable as gun shots but they know just what will happen? "Let's see, we'll hit him from the front but no one will have us on film or via still camera. None of our stray shots will zoom beyond Kennedy and go past him into the crowd in a direction only shots from our area could have traveled. The idiots in the crowd will believe there was only the guy from the building, the patsy. His shots will be so incompetent there might be one neck would or something, one we can basically ignore. Maybe we'll have him run away and kill a cop, something to make it look good. Then all we have to do is doctor the head wound and presto, it's like we were never there!"
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:51 PM   #17
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Damn, you made all of the points that I was going to make for me, Awsi Dooger (What is an Awsi Dooger, by the way?). You just saved me some time compiling a post and typing it to get under the skin of the conspiracy theorists. Thanks.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:51 PM   #18
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has anyone wondered why John John looked more like his stepfather than anyone else in the clan?
I doubt it.
take another look.
oops is the dbcooper.tk website in trouble again?
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Old 08-02-2006, 06:51 PM   #19
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UM probably could've pulled a JFK-Conspiracy or acted alone segment off.....You may recall the Son of Sam segment was a great one and fairly lengthy and presented some evidence that Berkowitz may or may not have acted alone.

UM could've done it......maybe centered around Lee Harvey Oswald and the domino effect on how people kept dying.....first, of course, JFK, then his alleged assassin, then Jack Ruby. Definately something going on there as weather Oswald acted alone or not.

That could've made a good enough segment.
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Old 08-02-2006, 11:00 PM   #20
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Stone's JFK movie is highly entertaining. Unfortunately it is just entertainment. I believe Gerald Posner's(?) book and Peter Jennings special a few years ago pretty much shut the door closed on this case.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:48 AM   #21
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I'm not sure if there was a conspiracy or not but I think there are enough raised quations that it could have been an excellent Um segment...perehaps even a whole show. There are too many weird evets sounding JRK, RFK, and MLK to be coincidence.


And yeah, that guy who took photos of RFK being shot won his case but when the photos were on the way to bnbeing returned the delivery guy was robbed or maybe even murdered. Coincidence? Hmmm....
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Old 08-13-2006, 04:26 PM   #22
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Remember Dorthy Killgallen the journalist supposedly died of an overdose after interviewing Jack Ruby and her files from the interview were never found. She was in a chair fully clothed which was not the norm for her. Those who knew her did not know her to use drugs...

Also the snitch prositute who came up dead...don't remember the details on that.
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Old 08-13-2006, 04:47 PM   #23
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Dorothy discovered that Ruby and the slain Officer J.D. Tippit had been friends and were together in Ruby's Club at a meeting 2 weeks before the assassination with Bernard Weissman, who had put a JFK-Wanted ad in a Dallas newspapers in 1963. There was 4th man there - supposedly a rich Texas Oil man --- could we try a name like Rapport (never mind were this name comes from).

During that visit she stumbled onto some information and told others that she had discovered something. She referred to an man she called the Ferret man. This man was a friend of Jack Ruby's. Mob mongel Marcello and other Alpha 88 and coverts from Florida to Texas.

She was very secretive and scared - hiding something she was afraid of as some of us have done for yrs and later was dead of an overdose. Her files were gone. Her interview and the files were swept under a rug just like many things have been. Those who knew her know she did not OD.
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Old 08-15-2006, 01:50 AM   #24
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Default More on Dorthy Killgallen

A friend of mine was quick to point out that Dorthy was sitting up in her bed and there was a book in her lap - but according to friends it was a book she had already read. Also her reading glasses where in the other room????

What is a ferret? Who was the ferret? Was he someone working both sides??
Does anyone out there know who the Ferret man was --- in so far as I know not one sole knows except the men at that table and they aren't talking - rather difficult to communicate from the here-after.

Did Dorthy know the Ferret Man - is that why she did not identify him????
A woman would not lie on her bed fully cloth sitting up...to commit suicide unless it was a special outfit and this was not a special outfit. She was not depressed. She did not use drugs. This was not typical of her.

She liked her papers delivered to her door in the morning and evening.
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Old 09-06-2006, 12:54 AM   #25
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The 60's and 70's - the crime element that helped to implement all of this has given way to even more violence due to the drugs that the MAFIA and other groups peddled in this country.

These groups opened the highway and now we are flooded with chaos and death - the drug dealers are now controling the streets and it is no longer safe to sleep with an open window or enjoy a family outing in the backyard in some neighborhoods.

You can start with the Kennedy Assasination progressing to our current problems and even the MAFIA has fallen prey to the New Mafia GangStyle.
This has become a terrifying place to live and yet we are safer than other countries. I fear what future generations will be facing in the aftermath of the 60's and 70's.
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Old 09-11-2006, 02:29 AM   #26
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There was so much leading up to the day that Kennedy died. How much of the history of the 60's regarding Cuba and the Mafia can anyone tell me about that we might not find in a text in the library? Does anyone have a clue what the Alpha 88 was and were they trained and who formed them and what they were really all about. Believe me there is nothing in the libraries to be found and little on the WEB.

I truly believe that if todays generation knew some of the things that the older generation has been thru that they might take the occurrences regarding cover-up and covert group a little more seriously. These are groups of individuals who actually change the course of politics...with all of its wealth and power behind it...the little man with no money doesn't have a chance to win an election today.
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:53 PM   #27
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Was a post deleted from this thread? This thread was on page one yesterday and now it seems to have disappeared. Here are some of my thoughts on the assassination of President Kennedy.

Before we look at the conspiracy angle, there are a few things I think you should know about the life and personality of Lee Harvey Oswald. Ever since he was a teenager, Oswald had an interest in political and social issues. He joined the US marine corp. in his late teens where he studied and mastered the Russian language in his spare time. Most would say Oswald’s overall performance in the corp. was lackluster at best. After a court martial, and other negative experiences in the corp., Oswald obtained an early discharge, declared himself a Marxist, and defected to the Soviet Union. Oswald expected the Soviets would greet him with open arms for giving up his life in the “free world”. Instead Soviet officials were shocked by Oswald’s willingness to defect and told him that he could not remain in their country for any extended period of time. Oswald was crushed by the rebuff and attempted to commit suicide by slashing his wrists. In 1962, Oswald returned to the United States with his Russian wife, Marina, and their newborn. Rejected by one communist country, Oswald turned his attention to Cuban affairs, and the dictator Fidel Castro, whom he admired. His fascination with Cuban politics eventually led to an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate retired Major General Edwin Walker. Walker was a well-known and vocal anti-Castro activist who just happened to live in Dallas. Oswald staked out Walkers home, and his surveillance culminated one night when he fired a single shot at Walker, ironically with the same rifle he would use to kill Kennedy. The bullet shattered a window and narrowly missed Walker. Although his attempt on Walker’s life had failed, Oswald preserved evidence of his crime in the hope that he could some day use it to the gain the respect of Cuban leaders. Marina was not pleased with Oswald’s activities and told him to move out. Oswald set his sites on New Orleans, and eventually succeeded in opening a local chapter of the “Fair Play for Cuba Committee”, leaving Marina and the children behind in Dallas. He was arrested at least twice when fights broke out during his otherwise peaceful demonstrations on a New Orleans street corner. During this time, there is some evidence that suggests Oswald attempted to play both sides of the Cuba issue. He tried on numerous occasions to infiltrate local anti-Castro organizations, presumably so he could spy on their activities. It is easy to see how conspiracy theories are born here, as Oswald’s activities brought him into contact with all sorts of shady characters on both sides of the Castro/Cuba issue. Both sides hated President Kennedy immensely. Pro-Castro groups disliked Kennedy’s invasion of Cuba during the Bay of Pigs. Anti-Castro groups felt Kennedy did too little in Bay of Pigs and blamed him for the operation’s failure. Politics aside, Oswald did manage to reconcile his differences with Marina, and he visited his family briefly in Dallas while en-route to Mexico City. It was Oswald’s hope that he could obtain a travel visa that would allow him to go to Cuba. Oswald’s request was ultimately rejected. Cuban officials with whom Oswald spoke to that day remember his reaction to the rejection. At least one claimed that he made a threatening remark about JFK. When Oswald returned to Dallas, Marina informed him that an FBI agent, James Hosty, had interviewed her. The FBI apparently considered Oswald a “person of interest” after he defected, and they wanted to know why he was now attempting to get a travel visa to Cuba. Oswald was enraged. Throughout his life, Oswald had the delusion that the FBI was watching him. He even went so far as to use different aliases to avoid detection. Prior to the attack on Walker’s life, Oswald had lost a very god job, and he thought the FBI was responsible. The fact that he wife had been interrogated further fueled these delusions. Oswald responded in kind by visiting Hosty’s office, and leaving him a threatening letter. In the letter, which has since been destroyed, Oswald allegedly threatened to blow up the Dallas Police Department, and the FBI office if Hosty didn’t leave his wife alone. This incident occurred in early October of ’63, a little over a month before President Kennedy was killed. In the weeks preceding the assassination, Oswald and his wife had another falling out. At this point in time, Oswald was living in another part of town, closer to work, but away from his family. He visited them every weekend. After this last argument, it seemed as though Marina was considering cutting him off for good. Thursday November 21st was the last day the couple would spend together. Oswald tested Marina by suggesting that he may not come to visit Thanksgiving weekend. Marina did not object, much to his dismay. Oswald awoke the following morning and prepared for work. He left behind all the money he had - $170 in cash, his wedding ring, and he told Marina, who was half asleep, to use the money to buy whatever she and the kids needed. At 12:30 that afternoon, shots were fired at President Kennedy’s motorcade.

Those are the highlights of Oswald’s complex history, as much as I could condense it. Based on these facts, I think a conspiracy is unlikely for four reasons.

First, the attack on Kennedy was virtually a carbon copy of the attack on General Walker, and the police found no evidence that Oswald had assistance in planning the Walker attempt.

Second, I find it incredible that Oswald would be making threats to an FBI official just weeks before the assassination if he were an integral part of a conspiracy. If a conspiracy existed, Oswald would have blown it had Hosty followed up and investigated the threat.

Third, the fact that Oswald so desperately wanted to be with his family on Thanksgiving weekend suggests he didn’t have a clear plan involving others. In my mind, Oswald wanted to be with his family more than he wanted to kill Kennedy. Had Marina not shunned him, he probably wouldn’t have gone through with it.

Finally, Oswald’s behavior and activity on the morning of the assassination suggests he was not thinking rationally. His comments, in my mind, come across as “I’m not important, don’t worry about me. Take the money and buy what YOU want. I’ll show you…” I believe his motives were a lot more personal than political. Not to say that his plan to shoot JFK was a spur of the moment idea. Rather I think Oswald had been planning to do it as a last resort. In this case, his final attempt to reconcile his differences with Marina failed. In his mind, there was nothing else to do except lash out in retaliation.

Oswald would accomplish many things by killing JFK. He would earn the respect and admiration of the Cubans, he would humiliate the FBI, and he would leave his wife with a feeling of guilt that will linger with her for the rest of her life. While I don’t believe Oswald was hell-bent on killing JFK, the coming together of all of these events in Oswald’s world just happened to coincide with Kennedy’s trip to Dallas and culminated when Oswald lashed out in a way that would have disastrous consequences.

The only hardcore evidence of a second shooter was found in audio recordings made by the Dallas Police Department. On November 22nd, the microphone on a motorcycle officer’s two-way radio became jammed in the “on” position for about five minutes. The DPD routinely tape-recorded all radio traffic over the police channels. So, sound was being recorded the entire time the officer’s microphone was stuck open. This tape recording was largely ignored until the mid-seventies when Congress re-investigated Kennedy’s death. Scientific analysis of the tape indicated that no fewer than four shots were fired during the assassination. It was further claimed that the third, and fatal shot was fired from the grassy knoll, while the others appeared to come from the Texas School Book Depository. However, these findings have been hotly contested, with the possibility of a new audio analysis in the near future. First off, the quality of the recording is very poor. The spot where the “shots” were found consists of a lot of static, tape hiss, and the overpowering sound of the officer’s motorcycle engine. Also, the DPD’s dictabelt taping system was not designed for quality performance, and we are talking about 1963 technology. Second, I don’t think they were ever able to establish exactly where the motorcycle officer was when these sounds were recorded. They also couldn’t establish a time frame either. To paraphrase one Kennedy biographer and conspiracy skeptic: “Congress wasted tax player dollars examining a tape recording of sounds picked up miles away and ten minutes too late”. I would be surprised if anything of value is ever found in the dictabelt recordings
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justins5256
Was a post deleted from this thread? This thread was on page one yesterday and now it seems to have disappeared.
Yes because it had links to YouTube.
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Old 02-03-2007, 12:26 PM   #29
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Im sure the CIA is overjoyed when hearing people say that Oswald worked alone and there was no conspiracy involved. Kennedy ran afoul of this agency not only over the bay of pigs but also with Vietnam. We all also understand about how the mafia wanted him gone for turning his back on them. It wasn't until Kennedy disolved the Federal Reserve that the death warrant was issued. Check into the facts here, after Kennedy was gone, Johnson re established the Federal Reserve system, escalated Vietnam into a full blown war and backed off of the Mafia. The CIA has been programming assasains for many years now, sound crazy to you? Thats exactly what they want you to think. Did you know that Mark David Chapman, John Hinkley Jr. and the leaders of the Jonestown cult were are part of the World vision church, which has been rumored for years to be controlled by CIA interest? We know the CIA used mind control expirements in the 50s using LSD. That didnt work so well so thats all you hear about. Do you really think they just gave up there? Thats what they'd like you to think. The successful mind control expirements that allow them to program an assasain have never been made public nor will they ever. Anytime someone like me brings this to light most of the general public will re-act just how they are expected to. By using words like wakko, conspiricy theory nut jub etc etc. Think about it and dig in, forget what you think you know if you want to get to the raw truth of anything.
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Old 02-03-2007, 12:49 PM   #30
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Ever notice how it's always the CIA?
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