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Old 06-15-2016, 12:49 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by mozartpc27
If this was someone looking "to do the right thing," who was somehow involved with the case, it is arguable that the strange calls directly to the detective from a woman may have helped that. But as I recall, those calls came after, and were apparently prompted by, the initial calls to the detective impersonating the DJ. Those calls would seem to serve no earthly purpose, other than just to screw with that DJ, particularly if the intention was then to turn around and call the detective who investigated the calls from the supposed DJ and suggest to him the Judith Hymes was alive. Why bother with the intermediary step of impersonating the DJ? THe only semi-legitimate reason could be to get a detective's attention, but the thought process would have to be: "I know. I'll draw attention to this case by impersonating a Z-list celebrity from a place half a country away from where this thing happened." What a totally strange, strange thing to do. In any event, the almost-as-strange decision to call the detective who responded to the call about the impersonated DJ calls with mysterious whisperings that Judith Hymes is alive would, I would think, be odd enough in itself to have accomplished the same thing.

As there is no proof the two are linked... it really makes you wonder. I agree with those who pointed out that a case that old from a different state would be unlikely to be known to a perfect stranger halfway across the country in 1988 or whatever year it was. Hell, at that time, it was probably unlikely if you talked to any random detective at the Coral Gables police department that s/he would have known about it. The case was cold and forgotten, in all likelihood.

Finally, if the person(s) calling was involved with the abortion, and knew what had happened, why not send a letter confirming what had happened, anonymously, if the person(s) was itching to do the right thing? I suppose the answer might be the person(s) did, and whoever sent the letter after the UM broadcast was the same person responsible for the initial phone calls - but why change tactics so drastically, after the case had gained so much notoriety? If the letter-sender is NOT the person who was responsible for the phone call(s) - but WAS knowledgeable about the situation and was motivated by guilt to draw attention to the case by making the phone calls - why not corroborate the first anonymous letter with a second, similar account, also via anonymous letter?

The whole thing is too weird for words.
Yes, completely bizarre.

I agree with a few others, the calls were from this Debbie person (connected to Hadju) - noted in the above comments, per the article cited. But what was the motive?
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:42 PM   #92
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There are lots of great posts in this thread, but I got confused because I hadn't seen the segment in so long. Here is a summary of Judy Hyams' case for others who might not remember the sequence of events. My comments follow.

Disapearance


1965 - Judy Hyams was 22 years old, recently divorced and working as a medical technician in Coral Gables, FL. She had just received a $25,000 divorce settlement. Judy was rumored to be dating several men, including a local dentist. (1) (2) (3)

August of 1965 - Judy found out she was pregnant. (1)

September 14, 1965 - Judy withdrew $300 from her account and went to an appointment with Dr. George Hadju. She was allegedly scheduled for an illegal abortion. Judy was not seen or heard from after this date. (1)

October 1965 - A rental car registered in Judy's name was found in Atlanta, GA. There is blood in the back seat. An unidentified man in his 30s was seen parking the car. (1)

January 1966 - Dr. George Hadju was arrested for not being an accredited physician. He jumps bail and leaves the country. (1)

1966 - A woman named Donna Doohen, who was questioned along with Dr. Hadju, relocated to Sioux City, IA, a city near the NE state line (5)

Phone Calls


Fall 1989 - Article about missing persons was published. Judy Hyams was mentioned. (3)

Mid March 1990 - Capt. Scherer gave a narcotics lecture in Grand Island, NE (188 miles from Omaha). He gave his business cards to numerous law enforcement officers. At that time he has no real knowledge of Judy Hyams' case. (1) (2)

March 20, 1990 - Capt. Scherer received the first strange phone call. A man introduced himself as Steve Brown, a radio talk show host in Omaha, NE. The man said someone called his show to say Judy Hyams was alive and living in Nebraska.

The police captain was not familiar with the case, so he took Mr. Brown's phone numbers and promises to call him back after looking up the details. Mr. Brown gave Capt. Scherer two numbers, one of which was his unlisted home number. When the captain called the numbers (either later that day or the next morning), he did speak to Steve Brown, the Omaha radio host. But Steve Brown had no idea what Capt. Scherer was talking about. He did not previously call the Captain with information about Judy Hyams. He was shocked that someone had his unlisted home number, saying only about 50 people knew that number. (1) (2)

March 21 or 22, 1999 - Capt. Scherer received the second strange phone call. A woman said Judy Hyams is alive and living in Omaha. The caller refused to identify herself and hung up. (1)

March 24, 1990 - The Miami Herald published an article about the first two phone calls, Case Reopens After Mysterious Calls (1) (2)

1990 - Capt. Scherer received the third strange phone call. A person claiming to be an FBI informant said he had just spent the last few weeks with George Hadju in Budapest, Hungary. The caller provided a telephone number for the house in Budapest. Capt. Scherer contacted Interpol and they were able to confirm the phone number was registered to George Hadju. (For whatever reason police couldn't locate Hadju to arrest him.) (1)

January 2, 1991 - Unsolved Mysteries aired Judy's segment. (4)

January 6, 1991 - The Coral Gables Police Dept. received an anonymous letter claiming Judy had died due to complications during an illegal abortion and her body was disposed of in Biscayne Bay, FL. (1)

1997 - Omaha Chief of Police, James Skinner resigned to take a job as Coral Gables Chief of Police. (6)

Comments


I think the FBI informant who placed the third phone call is not connected to the person(s) who placed the first two calls.

The first two phone calls protect Dr. Hadju, by claiming Judy is in Omaha. The third phone call provides police a way to locate Dr. Hadju.

The FBI informant likely read the article about the first two phone calls Capt. Scherer received which directed attention away from Dr. Hadju. The informant may have known Hadju was involved in Judy's disappearance and didn't want people thinking Judy left of her own accord. Or the FBI informant may have wanted to expose Hadju's location to police for other reasons.

I don't know what the Nebraska/Florida connection is though.

Excluding my comments, all info came from these sources:

(1)The Unsolved Mysteries segment
(2)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...1&postcount=35
(3)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...5&postcount=42
(4)http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Judy_Hymes
(5)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...9&postcount=71
(6)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...5&postcount=14

Last edited by Padfoot; 06-22-2016 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Correct a name and tense
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:46 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
There are lots of great posts in this thread, but I got confused because I hadn't seen the segment in so long. Here is a summary of Judy Hyams' case for others who might not remember the sequence of events. My comments follow.

Disapearance


1965 - Judy Hyams was 22 years old, recently divorced and working as a medical technician in Coral Gables, FL. She had just received a $25,000 divorce settlement. Judy was rumored to be dating several men, including a local dentist. (1) (2) (3)

August of 1965 - Judy found out she was pregnant. (1)

September 14, 1965 - Judy withdrew $300 from her account and went to an appointment with Dr. George Hadju. She was allegedly scheduled for an illegal abortion. Judy was not seen or heard from after this date. (1)

October 1965 - A rental car registered in Judy's name is found in Atlanta, GA. There is blood in the back seat. An unidentified man in his 30s was seen parking the car. (1)

January 1966 - Dr. George Hadju is arrested for not being an accredited physician. He jumps bail and leaves the country. (1)

1966 - A woman named Donna Doohen, who was questioned along with Dr. Hadju, relocates to Sioux City, IA, a city near the NE state line (5)

Phone Calls


Fall 1989 - Article about missing persons is published. Judy Hyams is mentioned. (3)

Mid March 1990 - Capt. Scherer gives a narcotics lecture in Grand Island, NE (188 miles from Omaha). He gives his business cards to numerous law enforcement officers. At this time he has no real knowledge of Judy Hyams' case. (1) (2)

March 20, 1990 - Capt. Scherer receives the first strange phone call. A man introduces himself as Steve Brown, a radio talk show host in Omaha, NE. The man says someone called his show to say Judy Hyams was alive and living in Nebraska.

The police captain is not familiar with the case, so he takes Mr. Brown's phone numbers and promises to call him back after looking up the details. Mr. Brown gives Capt. Scherer two numbers, one of which is his unlisted home number. When the captain calls the numbers (either later that day or the next morning), he does speak to Steve Brown, the Omaha radio host. But Steve Brown has no idea what Capt. Scherer is talking about. He did not previously call the Captain with information about Judy Hyams. He is shocked that someone had his unlisted home number, saying only about 50 people knew that number. (1) (2)

March 21 or 22, 1999 - Capt. Scherer receives the second strange phone call. A woman says Judy Hyams is alive and living in Omaha. The caller refuses to identify herself and hangs up. (1)

March 24, 1990 - The Miami Herald publishes an article about the first two phone calls, Case Reopens After Mysterious Calls (1) (2)

1990 - Capt. Scherer receives the third strange phone call. A person claiming to be an FBI informant says he has just spent the last few weeks with George Hadju in Budapest, Hungary. The caller provides a telephone number for the house in Budapest. Capt. Scherer contacts Interpol and they are able to confirm the phone number is registered to George Hadju. (For whatever reason police can't locate Hadju to arrest him.) (1)

January 2, 1991 - Unsolved Mysteries airs Judy's segment. (4)

January 6, 1991 - The Coral Gables Police Dept. receives an anonymous letter claiming Judy had died due to complications during an illegal abortion and her body was disposed of in Biscayne Bay, FL. (1)

1997 - Omaha Chief of Police, Tom resigns to take a job as Coral Gables Chief of Police. (6)

Comments


I think the FBI informant who placed the third phone call is not connected to the person(s) who placed the first two calls.

The first two phone calls protect Dr. Hadju, by claiming Judy is in Omaha. The third phone call provides police a way to locate Dr. Hadju.

The FBI informant likely read the article about the first two phone calls Capt. Scherer received which directed attention away from Dr. Hadju. The informant may have known Hadju was involved in Judy's disappearance and didn't want people thinking Judy left of her own accord. Or the FBI informant may have wanted to expose Hadju's location to police for other reasons.

I don't know what the Nebraska/Florida connection is though.

Excluding my comments, all info came from these sources:

(1)The Unsolved Mysteries segment
(2)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...1&postcount=35
(3)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...5&postcount=42
(4)http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Judy_Hymes
(5)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...9&postcount=71
(6)http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/...5&postcount=14
Thank you for this thorough breakdown, Ava.

1997 - Omaha Chief of Police, Tom resigns to take a job as Coral Gables Chief of Police.

STRANGE!
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Old 06-23-2016, 01:55 AM   #94
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It is a strange case because of the phone calls, but otherwise it seems simple in that we have a pregnant woman who, as her friend said in the segment, would not have kept a kid. It was 1965. She was young. No doubt she died as a result of an illegal abortion and the anonymous letter convinces me of this. It was written straight and to the point, worded by someone who obviously was there (a nurse working for the dr. maybe?) and who still lived in the area, wanted to set the record straight and admitted what really happened. They got rid of her car. It was a sloppy job because there were witnesses in broad daylight. Judith Hyames (Himes or however it's spelled) took a gamble and lost.

What I find strange other than the phone calls is the fact that there seems to be little about her on the net. I found one newspaper interview done with her mother a few months after Judy disappeared. Other than that, I have seen no family or friends asking her whereabouts. I think her surviving family and friends know she is gone and understand how it happened.

The phone calls....still cannot figure those out. But I think we know of her fate.

Thank you for the excellent investigation!
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Old 06-23-2016, 02:02 AM   #95
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I never felt that Judith didn't want a child, but was terrified of that label of being an unwed, single mother who was pregnant and would cause shame to her community. Has anyone wondered if maybe she had been impregnated by means of rape and maybe that caused her so much grief that she had this illegal abortion and unfortunately died as a result?
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Old 06-23-2016, 05:08 AM   #96
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The reason why she decided to undergo the abortion ultimately doesn't matter. Doesn't make her any less gone.
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Old 06-23-2016, 07:25 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1990 UM fan
I never felt that Judith didn't want a child, but was terrified of that label of being an unwed, single mother who was pregnant and would cause shame to her community. Has anyone wondered if maybe she had been impregnated by means of rape and maybe that caused her so much grief that she had this illegal abortion and unfortunately died as a result?
Who knows, that could be another theory. Stranger things have happened.
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Old 06-23-2016, 01:15 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
The reason why she decided to undergo the abortion ultimately doesn't matter. Doesn't make her any less gone.
Oh I know, and sadly, nothing can ever bring her back, but I was just throwing that out there. I often wonder if she got caught up with a married man (supposedly like Rhonda Hinson did) and was impregnated by said man, then was pressured into aborting the child or did so by her own volition. I also wonder if Judith really knew all the options she had back then (giving the child up for adoption being high on the list), being in her situation, or felt like abortion was the definitive option to solve the whole problem.

What also scares me is if Judith, being a nurse, knew what she was really getting into. Judith never struck me as being naive, just young and scared, and I often wonder if maybe she found out this was a bogus deal and was actually murdered to keep quiet about illegal abortion activity, rather than just having a medical mishap and dying as a result. I would hate to think she went through with it and when it went awry, knew she was dying, and then just died, because that's terrifying to think about, I mean, how do you handle knowing that you're laying there dying? I hate looking at photos of Judith Himes and knowing that smiley young Florida woman with a promising future has long been dead because of her fears in that time period and the ordeal she faced at the end of her life. I hope she is in a better place.
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Old 06-23-2016, 06:23 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86
A few pages back I posted a link (which now appears to be broken) to a news article that reported a person of interest--someone personally associated with Hadju at the time of Himes' disappearance--who moved to Iowa about 90 miles away from Omaha, NE shortly after Judy went missing. I don't know if this person ever moved on to Nebraska, or if she was the person indeed responsible for the calls, or even if she was personally involved in or at least aware of the botched abortion, but I thought it was an intriguing find.

I guess if she were indeed responsible, I would wonder what compelled her to draw attention to the case at that particular time, and in that particular manner.
Via a quick internet search, it looks like Donna Doohen still lives in Sioux City. Age 70, which would translate to 19 in 1965. Only a few years younger than Judy. Logical to be a friend -- the one who recommended the clinic? -- or perhaps an employee at the clinic itself. I found a link indicating Donna Doohen once held a cosmetology license in Florida. Could be legit but I was wondering about the listed professions of those workers at illegal clinics. They had to be listed if not licensed as something else, something legal. Cosmetology doesn't sound like much of a reach.

Doohen's listed address from that cosmetology license was in North Miami. Not close -- maybe a half hour -- to where Judy worked at Jackson Memorial Hospital, or the apparent abortion clinic in Coral Gables, which is even further south. I'm not sure where Judy's family lived, or whether the Doohen address was supposed to be her home address or work address. Regardless, I thought I might find a logically close geographical connection but did not. I was born in Miami, live there now, and know the area.

The internet search seemed to reveal that Doohen's family is from Sioux City. Not children but brothers, sisters and others from Donna's generation. That's probably the basic connection to Omaha. Once Doohen had some involvement or knowledge of the Judith Hines situation and/or Hadju's illegal clinic, she felt understandably uncomfortable after being questioned by authorities, and either decided to return home or was encouraged to do so by family members.

Decades later Donna may have held guilt or misgivings about the death, and Hadju's involvement. She either made the phone calls -- likely -- or prompted a relative/friend to do so. I've always suspected the phone calls were designed to target Hadju and hint to authorities to round him up and punish him, more than they had anything to do with Judith Hines. That name was merely the vehicle.

Plenty of that is guesswork. It's plausible, just like those segments I despise during each Perfect Murder episode. They pause and allow the detectives to offer their most likely scenario, given available info at that stage of the investigation. Naturally it always turns out to be wrong. And that's the entire point. Unfortunately the plausible version is often played out in courtrooms, when the state is confident they have the correct perpetrator. The best and most flowing plausible storyline is presented, in high decibel dramatic fashion. They pretend, for example, that they know exactly which swipe was in which order, and what blood trail it produced, along with who and how many were there. Laughable. But that's where we are, early 21st Century. Countless authors have taken advantage in recent decades, knowing darn well that gullible readers and jurors lap up that type of fixation on minutiae. It doesn't have to be accurate or even sensible. Just pick a path, be relentless and loud, flooded with so-called specifics, and suddenly the plausible version is undeniably exactly what happened.

Anyway, I suppose somebody could call Donna Doohen. I doubt she would offer anything but it's greater opportunity than seemingly anything else. I'm not going to do it. The case doesn't intrigue me that much. The basics seem obvious, if sad. I did make several calls years ago in the Richard Floyd McCoy/DB Cooper matter, primarily because it's hilarious that the FBI doesn't differentiate that bizarre case, with hour after hour of suspect risk in a public setting, from run of the mill darkness crimes in which virtually anybody could have pulled it off.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:49 PM   #100
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They got rid of her car. It was a sloppy job because there were witnesses in broad daylight.
The car was driven 650 miles before it was abandoned in a random residential neighborhood. The man (and the people from Hadju's clinic) made NO attempt to clean the blood in the backseat. Leaving the car in a place like that would make it seem they wanted it to be found.

Maybe their intention was to make it look like Judith had met with possible foul play in Georgia to direct attention away from the abortion in Florida. But...I can't figure out why the man would let himself be seen in the middle of the day.
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Old 06-24-2016, 08:04 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger
Via a quick internet search, it looks like Donna Doohen still lives in Sioux City. Age 70, which would translate to 19 in 1965. Only a few years younger than Judy. Logical to be a friend -- the one who recommended the clinic? -- or perhaps an employee at the clinic itself. I found a link indicating Donna Doohen once held a cosmetology license in Florida. Could be legit but I was wondering about the listed professions of those workers at illegal clinics. They had to be listed if not licensed as something else, something legal. Cosmetology doesn't sound like much of a reach.

Doohen's listed address from that cosmetology license was in North Miami. Not close -- maybe a half hour -- to where Judy worked at Jackson Memorial Hospital, or the apparent abortion clinic in Coral Gables, which is even further south. I'm not sure where Judy's family lived, or whether the Doohen address was supposed to be her home address or work address. Regardless, I thought I might find a logically close geographical connection but did not. I was born in Miami, live there now, and know the area.

The internet search seemed to reveal that Doohen's family is from Sioux City. Not children but brothers, sisters and others from Donna's generation. That's probably the basic connection to Omaha. Once Doohen had some involvement or knowledge of the Judith Hines situation and/or Hadju's illegal clinic, she felt understandably uncomfortable after being questioned by authorities, and either decided to return home or was encouraged to do so by family members.

Decades later Donna may have held guilt or misgivings about the death, and Hadju's involvement. She either made the phone calls -- likely -- or prompted a relative/friend to do so. I've always suspected the phone calls were designed to target Hadju and hint to authorities to round him up and punish him, more than they had anything to do with Judith Hines. That name was merely the vehicle.

Plenty of that is guesswork. It's plausible, just like those segments I despise during each Perfect Murder episode. They pause and allow the detectives to offer their most likely scenario, given available info at that stage of the investigation. Naturally it always turns out to be wrong. And that's the entire point. Unfortunately the plausible version is often played out in courtrooms, when the state is confident they have the correct perpetrator. The best and most flowing plausible storyline is presented, in high decibel dramatic fashion. They pretend, for example, that they know exactly which swipe was in which order, and what blood trail it produced, along with who and how many were there. Laughable. But that's where we are, early 21st Century. Countless authors have taken advantage in recent decades, knowing darn well that gullible readers and jurors lap up that type of fixation on minutiae. It doesn't have to be accurate or even sensible. Just pick a path, be relentless and loud, flooded with so-called specifics, and suddenly the plausible version is undeniably exactly what happened.

Anyway, I suppose somebody could call Donna Doohen. I doubt she would offer anything but it's greater opportunity than seemingly anything else. I'm not going to do it. The case doesn't intrigue me that much. The basics seem obvious, if sad. I did make several calls years ago in the Richard Floyd McCoy/DB Cooper matter, primarily because it's hilarious that the FBI doesn't differentiate that bizarre case, with hour after hour of suspect risk in a public setting, from run of the mill darkness crimes in which virtually anybody could have pulled it off.
Bravo for the excellent breakdown, Awsi! Per the bolded, I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Good job with the researching and deductive reasoning. I feel the same way - the case is tragic, especially because Judith's probable botched abortion death (as well as countless others') was so unnecessary. And yes, I definitely think Ms. Doohan had something to do with the calls. I wouldn't contact her. I'm pretty sure she has lived a lifetime of full of guilt.

BTW, Awsi, LOVE Miami. It's my second home.
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:27 PM   #102
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[QUOTE BTW, Awsi, LOVE Miami. It's my second home. [/QUOTE]

OT: I can't tell if you are being serious or not NYSleuth, but I love Miami too! Really! While there, I spend most of my time across the Julia Tuttle at a hotel somewhere along Collins Avenue in Miami Beach. Been there three times since 2004 and it never gets boring!
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:16 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Love A Good Mystery
OT: I can't tell if you are being serious or not NYSleuth, but I love Miami too! Really! While there, I spend most of my time across the Julia Tuttle at a hotel somewhere along Collins Avenue in Miami Beach. Been there three times since 2004 and it never gets boring!
I'm totally serious! Born & raised in NYC, but lived in Miami (South Beach) for a few years. I have a place there, mid Miami Beach, near Collins. I call it my escape route for when I need a break. On Collins, I like the Delano, Setai, Dream. It never gets boring. I wont ever live there again full time because you can get into too much trouble in SOBE.

I wonder what Coral Gables (which is where Judy lived) was like during the 1960's. It must have been super conservative. Things were way different in Miami back then...
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:23 PM   #104
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Oh I know, and sadly, nothing can ever bring her back, but I was just throwing that out there. I often wonder if she got caught up with a married man (supposedly like Rhonda Hinson did) and was impregnated by said man, then was pressured into aborting the child or did so by her own volition. I also wonder if Judith really knew all the options she had back then (giving the child up for adoption being high on the list), being in her situation, or felt like abortion was the definitive option to solve the whole problem.

What also scares me is if Judith, being a nurse, knew what she was really getting into. Judith never struck me as being naive, just young and scared, and I often wonder if maybe she found out this was a bogus deal and was actually murdered to keep quiet about illegal abortion activity, rather than just having a medical mishap and dying as a result. I would hate to think she went through with it and when it went awry, knew she was dying, and then just died, because that's terrifying to think about, I mean, how do you handle knowing that you're laying there dying? I hate looking at photos of Judith Himes and knowing that smiley young Florida woman with a promising future has long been dead because of her fears in that time period and the ordeal she faced at the end of her life. I hope she is in a better place.
In the segment, her friend mentioned that having a child out of wedlock was unheard of in her circle of friends at that time. I don't think adoption was an option for her, unless she left town during and after the pregnancy to do so. I think Judy probably saw an abortion as her best option at the time, hoping no one would ever even find out she had become pregnant. It is super sad and tragic, such an unnecessary loss of life.
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Old 06-25-2016, 08:23 PM   #105
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BTW, Awsi, LOVE Miami. It's my second home.
My best friend got married in Key Biscayne two years ago. My hotel was in downtown Miami and I was very, VERY impressed. I loved it.

The night before the wedding, the rehearsal dinner took place at a steakhouse in Coral Gables. As we were driving to the restaurant, my inner UM nerd came out and I began thinking, "this is where Judith Hyams lived."

Sometimes I felt like I was in a foreign land, though. It seemed almost every restaurant we went to (and our tour through the Florida Everglades) my friends and I were consistently the only people who spoke English.
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