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Old 06-11-2006, 09:05 PM   #1
savageamusement
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Thought Banned / Suspended Users Poll and Feedback

Okay time for me to open a can of worms-


I would like feedback here.



There are a few users, who have been long term traders, that have ended up on the suspended and or banned list.

Now, obviouslly if they have arrived at this point- it was due to outstanding feedback in the negative fashion.
And after observation, or inability to work out a compromise-
That the moderators/administartors decided a suspension or banning was the best option.
Sometimes it is for a cooling off period, sometimes it is in the best interest of the board.


Now, in the past when a banned or suspended user is placed on this list-
If they try to come back, without discussing, future allowance is denied- for the lack of cooperation to the rules.

However, sometimes a user can take the time, work thorugh issues, and under close supervision, with the choice to send first, and understanding people might be skeptical- come back.
Rarely, but sometimes there is an option.

However, over all- Once a user is placed on the banning/suspension list-
Most people don't deal with them again let's face it

So my question is this-

Should they be allowed ot be DISCUSSED after this is done, as they can NOT reply or defend themelves furthor.

There are a couple users, whom are banned for good- and their names/user Id KEEPS popping up.

And as much as they might have been directly responsible for the consequence of BEING banned, the fact is- once they are
they can no longer participate in the discussion.
And therefore as time goes on, facts change, opinions wiggle in, and sometimes the topics get added on, or placed out of proportion.

I have had a couple complaints from a few users, who are on the banned list- but through word of mouth have been told they are still being discussed
and have point blanke emailed me asking
:If I am banned, why do they still need to dicuss me" If I have no trades going, and nothing to do with any of the Sitcoms users anymore, why carry on a conversation about me, that I can't even in the very least comment back"

And another user whom wrote me- and said
"i was removed for poor trading habits- I am trying to take a break, so that I can reform those ways and maybe someday come back and reearn the traders trust- But how can I ever get a fresh slate, if they don't stop whispering nad rumouring about me?"


So there it is- your feedback please-

Do you feel that once a user has been banned that conversations should be allowed?
Should it be left to feedback and facts- leaving opinions and quick jabs out?

Opinions, please
Becuase as a moderator I feel compelled to allowe facts and feedback to be discussed as their bheaviour is relevent
But I do not wish a person to be taunted or mocked, without the ability to defend themselves.

There is a user here whom is banned from another board, and when they were being disucssed on that board, and word got back to them they were frustrated and upset.
Several spoke up for his repuation, I was one of them

And yet, some of those people are engaging in the same behaviour towards another user who is banned on this site.

It seems a hipocrital standing.

Opinons, please.




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Old 06-11-2006, 09:17 PM   #2
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I believe any current member should be able to discuss or mention a banned member's name. The point of that member not being able to reply is the part of being banned. If you would like to reply or defend yourself, be a good trader, then you won't have to worry about it.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savageamusement

There is a user here whom is banned from another board, and when they were being disucssed on that board, and word got back to them they were frustrated and upset.
Several spoke up for his repuation, I was one of them

And yet, some of those people are engaging in the same behaviour towards another user who is banned on this site.

It seems a hipocrital standing.

Opinons, please.




-Savage

I agree

that's why I only taunt those who are on the board and can defend themselves.
I believe in fair fights only. (unlike Monty and the rest of the boys)


Joker who plays fair.
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:33 PM   #4
Lamont
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Wink truth be told

Well the fact is

that these people who got suspended and banned and on the bad trader list

were all Bad Traders

they had screwed over people, Not just 1 or 2 BUT numerous people on this board

I think we can all figure out what 2 females we are talking about here (sheri220 and Collinwood) who are the ones complaining as such
the only other Banned member I have seen mentioned was Wolf11, and he has more important problems on his other boards he was recently banned from!

While I do understand that it might be considered "unfair" to comment on them when they cannot defend themselves---- HOWEVER if u look back at the Bad trader threads about these 2 members in particular---- THEY DIDNT DEFEND THEMSELVES WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE! i know sheri220 was asked DIRECT QUESTIONS by several members and the moderator and she did not reply to any of them

Collinwood--- i do not think that she even bothered to respond at all

BOTH of these 2 never once responded to the questions asked of them and never defended themselves about all the complaints--- for them to cry foul now is silly

the way i see it, they had the chance to respond and they chose to "Thumb their noses" at the board and not answer any of the complaints with facts in their defenses---- so if they chose to Ignore this board when direct questions were asked that could have kept them from being banned to start with---- then why is it so hard for them to ignore this board if someone makes a comment in jest now????

get real, this is NOT real life folks, and the recent comments that were made

1. were all made in Joking form, and it was obviously comical in nature
*** you dont see old Lamont whining and crying about jokes made about me being a hillbilly or weedwacker jokes do u? u dont see Lilhave whining about jokes about his age do u? u dont see Loren crying about jabs at his "premium" views do u? NO, b/c we all have LIVES

2. these 2 banned members were not mentioned by name were they? i think there were some references that were inside jokes to those "in the know"


MY OPINION for what its worth it this-----

YES i think it would be wrong if we all started a new thread called "LETS REMEMBER WHAT A BAD TRADER COLLINWOOD IS" or "LETS BASH SHERI220 IN HER PERSONAL LIFE" then that would be wrong
and an unfair attack--- since they have been banned and canned and kicked to the curb, it would be pointless to begin new threads about how bad they were

BUT AT THE SAME TIME---- BOTH of these banned members have had ongoing issues with this board EVEN AFTER BEING BANNED---- Sheri220 for instance, as we recall, pulled COACHJONES into the mess after she was banned-- had him post HER list as HIS list and then tried to sell to people on this site direct! and COACHJONES got banned also. This member ALSO tried to use another member to do her bidding and almost got him into hot water as well----

COLLINWOOD, has repeatedly asked others to get things for her from me, BEHIND MY BACK, once she was banned, and is still diddly d**king people around on this board with her BS trade stories

SO MY QUESTION IS---- if a BANNED member continues to play games with this board, AFTER THEY ARE BANNED---- then why should they be suprised that their names come up with negative inferences?????

I mean, if they QUIETLY Went away, left this board alone and no longer tried to weasle back into it via other people, then that would be one thing--- BUT if they want to keep playing games and keep being "Active" members of this board INCOGNITO that is another thing
---- that is the CRAPOLA that SUE MAPLES and ANDY the western union bandit TURPA pull

THEY ARE BANNED, that means they are NO LONGER WELCOME on this board at all, while they cannot be stopped from reading it, they are NOT welcome and to be honest, i do not see why the moderators, TJ or anyone OWES THEM A THING--- I think any emails from these banned members should just be summarily deleted without reply

to me, this is just another case of certain members making a mountain out of a molehill

a CERTAIN banned member is obsessive by nature and unable to EVER, repeat EVER move on and unable to EVER, repeat EVER stop blaming certain members of this board for their problems in life--- and this to me, is the real problem----
this CERTAIN member could end up Lung Cancer--- and it would be Lorens fault somehow--- this CERTAIN member could end up hit by a car and it would be Lorens fault somehow--- THAT IS JUST HOW SHE THINKS!

if they are so upset by the mention of their names, or even a humorous reference to them, that 99% of the people do not even get---- then my suggestion to them would be

STOP READING THE TRADING POST, stop obsessing over it and move on with their lives!
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:35 PM   #5
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TV PS

for the record
i am not saying that these 2 banned and Bad traders are simply "FAIR GAME" to comment on at all

I think that all the current members should try to rise above the lousy members who got banned and not sink to their levels----

so yes, i think there are lines we shouldnt cross and certain levels of maturity we should all adhere to

we are all adults here and should act as such

my point was just that the comments that they are complaining about, were so silly and didnt even mention exactly who, that it is just sort of silly that they got so freaked out over them

i went back and reread some of the comments and just rolled my eyes at the mentality of those who would find the need to contact moderators about them
and complain

and i apologize FOR THEM to savage and TJ for having to deal with the BS of it all

my advice would be to NOT reply to these people at all---- if a moderator sees a comment that crosses the line and that the Moderator NOT the banned member thinks is wrong, then remove it

BUT I think that replying to these people just feeds into them and encourages them to KEEP emailing you and keep finding things to complain about

and that just keeps them Part of the board

ITS LIKE THE EX GIRLFRIEND who holds on to the ex-boyfriends clothes
so that she has an excuse to keep calling him up
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:42 PM   #6
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there are always valid reasons why a person got banned

the number one reason is they didnt act in a manner which is fair and honest

and as far as i have witnessed, it takes quite a track record to be runfrom this site, for bad trade behavior

so if someone is haveing a belly ache becasue they cant defend themselves

let me ask this

whos actions got them in this position???

the answer is probably themselves in almost every case

i just happen to know every person whos banned for bad trade offenses --from this site, and i have had first hand experience with most of them--they all deserved what they got, and much more

in most cases, banned users CONTINUE to pull crap, and never ever fess up to what they did in the first place

they blame others, or the old, it wasnt me trick

my opinion is if there is a need to mention someone by name, then thats just tuff cookies if some banned scammer thief doesnt like it

whats the difference, their name is proudly dispalyed in the scammer-banned-bad trader area anyhow for all to see


next should there be a process to which a person can make good and be recertified as a member

my opinion is yes

a public admission of all wrong doings,every outstanding issue gets resolved, no new issues for a specified time, and a probationary period after they are reinstated, and a notation on their signature that this memebr was banned for wrong doings and is now trying to clean up their act, etc etc

if a person is willing to go through the above hoops, then i think they deserve another go around

the sticking point would be the make it correct part with the people they stole from

example, when a person makes a deal for a certain item, it may be rather hard to get and not in common circulation at the time, lets say a year later the scammer-thief decides to come correct

its no where near fair for them to send that particular set to make things square, since in that period of time, someone has turned the item loose and its everywhere, or more likely the person who got stolen from, wante dthat set and has made another effort to get it, thus a double or even more cost

the original item may have become near worthless to the person who should have received it in the proper timeframe

or another example, i had a issue with a --now banned person--that ran her mouth and lied to numerous people about me, and also told them that the reason she couldnt fill their orders, was due to loren didnt give her the discs, my reputation was drug through the crapper. i had several people want a piece of my hide, since they were lied to that i somehow owed them items, items i sometimes never ever had, or that i never supplied the banned member as well

this person could never make it correct with me,


and since you asked for an opinion

i would like to see the bad trader--banned-- whatever list posted on the top of the regular board

anything on the top area ---where it is now--only gets 10% or less of the readership as the normal area

this is an very important thing to self police the area, and report wrong doers, i feel every effort should be made to insulate members fron the risk of getting stung, education and awareness are the key tools
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loren
this is an very important thing to self police the area, and report wrong doers, i feel every effort should be made to insulate members fron the risk of getting stung, education and awareness are the key tools

Wait a sec, I thought we were the POLICE and we do it for FREE.
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:54 PM   #8
Lamont
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Default agreed

there are certain banned members
who should NEVER EVER EVER be welcomed back
even if they do clean up later on

FOR INSTANCE

andy turppa--- this guy has stolen $$$ from countless members on this site and others-- with this Western Union scam--- he should never be allowed here--- even if he becomes a saint!

sue maples---- worst stuff ever, the absolute pitts--- how many people got stuck with her useless sets?

collinwood--- YES she might be a nice person, BUT the fact is she has exhibited the same bad trading behavior FOR YEARS! I researched into her while her bad thread was active--- and found people 4 years ago that she told the SAME LIES to, back when she was still VHS Trading! years of same lies and being banned from other sites

Sheri220-- goes WAY beyond normal boundaries of bad trading and crosses into the line of FATAL ATTRACTION!

wolf11---- need i say more? he threatened to sue me, sue tj, beat up people, attack loren with computer viruses etc, in addition to bad trading

people like that should never be welcomed back in my eyes

if they straighten out, GREAT then find a new board and start fresh

NOW if we are talking about just bad trading issues, without the extra baggage of the examples above, then YES people can change---- most bad traders are NOT bad traders b/c they are scumbags--- most just dont know what the heck they are doing, they are new or get in too deep too fast and then get into a mess

that is one thing, and can be overcome, but the other category of bad traders----- the LONG TERM repeat offenders, should never be considered for forgiveness

at least in Lamonts hillbilly simple minded, weed wacked out opinion
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:57 PM   #9
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Exclamation ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k3Joker
Wait a sec, I thought we were the POLICE and we do it for FREE.
Nah, we aint the police Joker

we're just a band of thugs, playground bullies, psychiatric inmates and dastardly villians

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Old 06-11-2006, 11:17 PM   #10
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There has yet to me to see one person added to the banned list for one
offense. It's always been a multitude of offenses. Whether it's bad trading
bad behavior or just bad whatever. It's not just one trade gone bad
but multiple trades.

Out of everything that was said this to me is the key phrasing of what
was presented

However, sometimes a user can take the time, work thorugh issues, and under close supervision, with the choice to send first, and understanding people might be skeptical- come back.
Rarely, but sometimes there is an option.


If someone wants to be removed from the banned list, then they should
be allowed a chance. One chance and one chance only. With the following
inclusions.

1) As loren mentioned. and absolute public apology and listing of transgressions. Whether it's "I failed in this trade, or I failed in this trade"
everything out on the table. That does offer protection that it's not a free
for all to blast them another time. And a blanket apology doesn't make it.
Sometimes if things go really bad people forget who they messed over.
But there is a certain amount of allowance for people to remind them that
they missed this occurance as well. Everything out on the table.

2) Every problem with a user or with behavior should be addressed.
If there were 10 people that got screwed out of the deal, then
those 10 people have to be approached on how to make it better.
Now this does not mean that they have to right to say "nope, I'm
not going to accept restitution, screw them" if they choose to
say it's can't be made right to me. Then that's there choice. The
Judgement has to be impartial on whether they are making a genuine
attempt at redemption of just serving another line.

3) If that person clears those hurdles, and not "I'm in the process of"
but actually has to completely clear the hurdles, all packages have
to be finalized or the person has to say "never mind, it's not worth
my time. Then it's a trial run. All trades should have to be through
an impartial mediator. The part to me is the impartial part. If they
have a grudge, legitimate or not then they don't have a chance in
hades of actually clearing the hurdle. For 6 months any trades have
to be cleared by this mediator, and if for any reason other than the
US mail or regular failure (dvd didn't burn) then they are rebanned with
no way back. It's a one chance deal. Mess it up for any reason that's
considered non standard, then this last chance is gone.

4) A message should be posted under the traders section that has a listing
of the apology, the listed transgressions and a comment period of 1
week (or whatever seems to be fitting) that people can throw they're
opinion in. it is not a voting situation. This has and never will be a democracy. It's TJ's board, so he gets obviously the final say. but the
opinions would probably go a long way to decide what the final fate is.

That fate is determined obviously by the Moderator or TJ himself whatever
is worked out in closed doors. And it's final. Once that determination is
done then that thread is locked, always visible but locked for comment.
and the person if reinstated is allowed to go without harassment, Yes
people will keep an eye on them, but continued harassment once things
are settled should not be allowed either. if they're reinstated then they
should be allowed to be treated as a member in good standing, if not
being watched but still in "good" standing.

As far as comments about people who are banned. Once they're banned it
becomes a dead horse issue to me. If they can't defend themselves, then
it isn't fair to continually blast them in public. Yes, if they're scammers then
they aren't going to say much anyway. But the point being that it becomes
the dead horse issue when it's pounded and pounded and pounded how these
people did someone wrong. Especially once someone says "I know I won't see my discs". Once that happens, it's a moot issue. It just becomes a
griping session. And better off for e-mail or something else.

Self Policing- Absolutely it is of vital importance to self police ourselves.
We do not need an appointed group other than Admin to start to be the
kiddie cops on things. But the nature is that there has to be some type
of agreement to say this is bad behavior and this is how it gets solved.
Mediators are one thing, But when we start pulling out the DVD cops and
they start calling out right and wrong. Then it's an entirely different ballgame.

In the past few months we've seen tempers flare, People have said things
that the next day they regretted. And even sometime people who were in the right take things so far that they became wrong. not in the original
message but in the execution of that message. Where they went from being wronged to where they became the rampagers running over everone, the good traders as well as the bad traders. That makes things very dangerous
when it comes to being a part of a community.

And overall the community as a whole takes precedence over the individual
user. Unfortunately that means that at times there has to be pruning of people who might in the long run end up being good traders, for the sake
that they are unable in the short run to continue to learn anything but the
art of the con job.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamont
Well the fact is

that these people who got suspended and banned and on the bad trader list

were all Bad Traders

they had screwed over people, Not just 1 or 2 BUT numerous people on this board

I think we can all figure out what 2 females we are talking about here (sheri220 and Collinwood) who are the ones complaining as such
the only other Banned member I have seen mentioned was Wolf11, and he has more important problems on his other boards he was recently banned from!

While I do understand that it might be considered "unfair" to comment on them when they cannot defend themselves---- HOWEVER if u look back at the Bad trader threads about these 2 members in particular---- THEY DIDNT DEFEND THEMSELVES WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE! i know sheri220 was asked DIRECT QUESTIONS by several members and the moderator and she did not reply to any of them

Collinwood--- i do not think that she even bothered to respond at all

BOTH of these 2 never once responded to the questions asked of them and never defended themselves about all the complaints--- for them to cry foul now is silly

the way i see it, they had the chance to respond and they chose to "Thumb their noses" at the board and not answer any of the complaints with facts in their defenses---- so if they chose to Ignore this board when direct questions were asked that could have kept them from being banned to start with---- then why is it so hard for them to ignore this board if someone makes a comment in jest now????

get real, this is NOT real life folks, and the recent comments that were made

1. were all made in Joking form, and it was obviously comical in nature
*** you dont see old Lamont whining and crying about jokes made about me being a hillbilly or weedwacker jokes do u? u dont see Lilhave whining about jokes about his age do u? u dont see Loren crying about jabs at his "premium" views do u? NO, b/c we all have LIVES

2. these 2 banned members were not mentioned by name were they? i think there were some references that were inside jokes to those "in the know"


MY OPINION for what its worth it this-----

YES i think it would be wrong if we all started a new thread called "LETS REMEMBER WHAT A BAD TRADER COLLINWOOD IS" or "LETS BASH SHERI220 IN HER PERSONAL LIFE" then that would be wrong
and an unfair attack--- since they have been banned and canned and kicked to the curb, it would be pointless to begin new threads about how bad they were

BUT AT THE SAME TIME---- BOTH of these banned members have had ongoing issues with this board EVEN AFTER BEING BANNED---- Sheri220 for instance, as we recall, pulled COACHJONES into the mess after she was banned-- had him post HER list as HIS list and then tried to sell to people on this site direct! and COACHJONES got banned also. This member ALSO tried to use another member to do her bidding and almost got him into hot water as well----

COLLINWOOD, has repeatedly asked others to get things for her from me, BEHIND MY BACK, once she was banned, and is still diddly d**king people around on this board with her BS trade stories

SO MY QUESTION IS---- if a BANNED member continues to play games with this board, AFTER THEY ARE BANNED---- then why should they be suprised that their names come up with negative inferences?????

I mean, if they QUIETLY Went away, left this board alone and no longer tried to weasle back into it via other people, then that would be one thing--- BUT if they want to keep playing games and keep being "Active" members of this board INCOGNITO that is another thing
---- that is the CRAPOLA that SUE MAPLES and ANDY the western union bandit TURPA pull

THEY ARE BANNED, that means they are NO LONGER WELCOME on this board at all, while they cannot be stopped from reading it, they are NOT welcome and to be honest, i do not see why the moderators, TJ or anyone OWES THEM A THING--- I think any emails from these banned members should just be summarily deleted without reply

to me, this is just another case of certain members making a mountain out of a molehill

a CERTAIN banned member is obsessive by nature and unable to EVER, repeat EVER move on and unable to EVER, repeat EVER stop blaming certain members of this board for their problems in life--- and this to me, is the real problem----
this CERTAIN member could end up Lung Cancer--- and it would be Lorens fault somehow--- this CERTAIN member could end up hit by a car and it would be Lorens fault somehow--- THAT IS JUST HOW SHE THINKS!

if they are so upset by the mention of their names, or even a humorous reference to them, that 99% of the people do not even get---- then my suggestion to them would be

STOP READING THE TRADING POST, stop obsessing over it and move on with their lives!


Oh so that's what happened to Coachjones? I was wondering what happened to him.
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:23 PM   #12
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i see what u mean dragonbear

but my opinion

1. when u r banned and on the bad trader list--- i think that your opinion and your voice should no longer be listened to---- i dont understand why people in authority should even have to entertain complaints from banned members----
its like Felons who cant vote--- they no longer have a say

its TJ's call and the Moderators call what can and cant be said, NOT some banned member who is whining about someone who made a joke about her (not even by name, just a vague reference to a city or such!)

2. i also understand about letting bad traders make ammends, BUT that still really needs to be case by case--- SURE some bad traders will screw over 15 people in a row, THEN when they get caught they will offer to make right--- but that dont count in my book----

thats like a bank robber who gets caught, then wants to just give the $ back now and forget about it

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Old 06-11-2006, 11:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVResearcher
Oh so that's what happened to Coachjones? I was wondering what happened to him.
COACHJONES was banned last month i think, he always seemed like a decent guy, but somehow a CERTAIN banned member on this site talked CoachJones into being a "Front" for her, FIRST on a selling site--- which doesnt effect the board--BUT THEN he posted his NEW STUFF list, which SUPRISE was just her old list and EVERY SINGLE person who wanted to trade with him he said NOPE IM ONLY SELLING THESE SETS, and he was really just ADVERTISING them on here for HER and she was making the $$$ off it, soe she drug him down with her


real shame too, but rules are rules are rules
and that crapola broke several of them at once!
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVResearcher
Oh so that's what happened to Coachjones? I was wondering what happened to him.
heres another part of my education process and my reason for wanting the ban and bad list on the normal part of the message board

even sololom who is on here numerous times a day, didnt know that this person was banned, and even more importantly why

if a multiple time per day visitor cant follow the drift, how is a once a week person supposed to learn and try to protect themselves from the scammers--banned--thieves, etc

once again, this is my opinion, and youall did ask for it
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Old 06-11-2006, 11:48 PM   #15
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I think that it's important for people to be able to point to bad experiences with banned members when a trader check is done. Heck, I'm sure there are trader checks done on folks who are not members of Sitcoms all the time, so those people don't have ready access to speak to comments made about them on a board to which they're not a member. Of course, they could join if they chose, but ...

But I really think the key has to be discretion and moderation - it's not necessary to go on ad infinitum in response to a trader check - I'd think it would be sufficient to just say there were bad experiences, and suggest the person who's doing the check search on the person's old ID to pull up the threads that already exist. Really, to say much more than that serves no other purpose than to dredge it all up again, and why? Because of unresolved anger or frustration?

So, I vote for the ability to comment, judiciously. If a person publicly commits acts which lead to their banning, those public acts are open for discussion. I think a little care needs to be taken by members of this board not to tip over into libel, which could get everyone in trouble. Just the facts, ma'am ...
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